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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't know why you think the players around him will improve, but he won't. For most, since they are more familiar with the system, they are closer to their ceiling in it.

 

By that I mean that the players around him will change

 

Sorry could have said that better. By that I mean Crowder and CT. They should make a big difference for him. Those are his kinds if players. 

 

By him not improving, I kinda feel this is what we are gonna get from him accuracy/agression wise. He will manage the players around him and yes he will go as they do, but I dont expect his skillset to broaden. Hopefully i explained that better. 

 

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

But, I don't think Smith will get much better overall. I do expect a couple of things to get better for him. Ball placement, and overall completion % should get better, he's generally been more accurate in the past than he has this year. So I do expect a little more YAC, many of his completions have not been good throws and not allowed guys to keep running. I think this gets better.

 

I can agree to this. I sure hope it happens. I dont really think this has been too horrible considering it's new to him. He hasn't been good. But I can see him improving here so yea, agree. 

 

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

But how he plays is Alex Smith. That is not going to change, no matter what Gruden wants out of him.

 

That's kinda what I meant 

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14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

By that I mean that the players around him will change

 

Sorry could have said that better. By that I mean Crowder and CT. They should make a big difference for him. Those are his kinds if players. 

 

 

Honestly, I really don't expect either guy to really make a big impact. Crowder is NOT Tyreek Hill. He's a guy that's a pretty good slot player when he's at his best. But he is no game changer. Slight uptick.

 

As for CT........................ I think the fact that he is oft injured if a issue. You can't use him too much, and you have to using him in space. Or he gets hurt. And because you have to limit his reps, you limit what you get out of him. Again, only a slight uptick.

 

The issue is that Alex doesn't make anyone better. He needs guys to make him better. Crowder is pretty good, and CT is quite good, but oft injured. The difference they will make is not going to be big.

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6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Honestly, I really don't expect either guy to really make a big impact. Crowder is NOT Tyreek Hill. He's a guy that's a pretty good slot player when he's at his best. But he is no game changer. Slight uptick.

 

As for CT........................ I think the fact that he is oft injured if a issue. You can't use him too much, and you have to using him in space. Or he gets hurt. And because you have to limit his reps, you limit what you get out of him. Again, only a slight uptick.

 

The issue is that Alex doesn't make anyone better. He needs guys to make him better. Crowder is pretty good, and CT is quite good, but oft injured. The difference they will make is not going to be big.

I think the quoted part above is something that is not really discussed enough.  Alex has a habit of throwing the ball in spots where his receivers, if they can catch the ball, get crunched quickly.  He is great at putting them in potential injury situations.  CT may not last long when he returns from that alone.

Edited by Taylor 36
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PFF guy doing an analysis of Alex

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/13/nfl-passing-offenses-have-exploded-alex-smith-has-regressed-his-old-ways/?utm_term=.0b4e808cf92e

 

As NFL passing offenses have exploded, Alex Smith has returned to his old ways

It’s fair to describe the NFC East as the Washington Redskins’ division to lose, seeing as how they possess a 6-3 record and a two-game lead over rivals the Dallas Cowboys and Philadelphia Eagles, both of whom are 4-5.

Included in those six wins and three losses is one of the more remarkable stats of this NFL season, which is that the Redskins have yet to experience a lead change in any game. In some ways, it is the most Alex Smithstatistic ever. Smith — always labeled a game-managing quarterback — has been able to steer the team to victory after it gains a lead, but has been unable to as much as reclaim a lead when the Redskins have fallen behind, let alone mount a successful comeback.

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That statistic isn’t exactly doing anything to rewrite the book on Smith as a quarterback — and his level of play so far this season is a reason to doubt Washington’s ability to win a playoff game, if the Redskins do in fact make it to the postseason.

Being a game manager at the quarterback position is not necessarily a bad thing, even if it does get thrown around as a pejorative term, but it does necessitate the rest of the team being good enough to put him in the position where all that is required is to manage the game. The Redskins’ three losses this season have come against the Colts, Saints and Falcons — three teams with quality, playoff-proven quarterbacks.

 

The NFL in 2018 is littered with prolific offenses and high-level quarterback play. The leaguewide passer rating average has jumped more than seven points from a year ago — 87.3 to 94.5. That’s two points higher than Joe Montana’s career passer rating. The league is experiencing an offensive explosion, and to this point, the Redskins and Smith haven’t been able to keep pace, even while taking the division lead.

 

Smith’s performance grade, according to Pro Football Focus, has actually dropped more than 10 points from a year ago when he had a career season with the Chiefs, going from 79.6 to 68.8. That ranks 24th in the NFL this season, one spot below Jacksonville’s Blake Bortles. Of the possible playoff opponents the Redskins could realistically face in the NFC — a talented group that includes quarterbacks who rank in the top 10 of PFF grades in Drew Brees, Jared Goff, Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers and Carson Wentz — only one has a lower grade than Smith. That’s Mitchell Trubisky of the Bears, who ranks 30th but is coming off a 355-yard, 3-touchdown performance in a win over the Lions.

 

...Ultimately, that tells the story of Smith and the problem facing the Redskins as they begin to look ahead at the possibility of playing postseason football. Smith has remained the same quarterback he was before his 2017 career year, in the midst of a season in which quarterback play and passing offenses are exploding. In previous years, a game manager might have been enough to guide this Washington team further. In 2018, it sticks out as a potential playoff liability.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I feel like while Bibbs is not the caliber of a healthy Thompson, I do think they should be finding more ways to get him into the game plan until Thompson can get healthy and be relied upon to contribute.


Seems like anytime Bibbs gets his hands on the ball whether it is rushing or catching a pass, he is quick & shifty and gets a lot of yards.

 

He also seems like the kind of player Alex Smith should jive with well as he is likely to be catching a lot of shorter passes and making something happen afterwards.

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14 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I feel like while Bibbs is not the caliber of a healthy Thompson, I do think they should be finding more ways to get him into the game plan until Thompson can get healthy and be relied upon to contribute.


Seems like anytime Bibbs gets his hands on the ball whether it is rushing or catching a pass, he is quick & shifty and gets a lot of yards.

 

He also seems like the kind of player Alex Smith should jive with well as he is likely to be catching a lot of shorter passes and making something happen afterwards.

 

 

I don't think we use him correctly.  I'd love to see us get Bibbs more involved, especially in the pass game.  We ran a freakin screen to him this past week that went for 40 but got called back.... didnt see it again.  

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I think Bibbs looks better this year than Thompson has looked on any play since week 1. Obviously last year's Thompson is better, but I'd rather keep Bibbs out there until CT is 100% healthy...not just to avoid re-injury but because he has more burst. 

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

The issue is that Alex doesn't make anyone better. He needs guys to make him better. Crowder is pretty good, and CT is quite good, but oft injured. The difference they will make is not going to be big.

 

 

I want to ask you an honest question because the thought popped into my head..  This is not rhetoric, I genuinely am curious about your response.  It's not directly related to this part of your post but it is related to Alex, and the two of us have had back and forth in the past..

 

Does the current situation were in, regarding a shot at the playoffs, amplify your frustration with Alex?  

 

Lets say we were 4-5 right now... the Eagles were 7-2 coming off a Superbowl, Dallas is 5-4, and the Giants are 4-5ish... Coming into the season this would have been more of what we would have been expected.  Would your frustrations of Alex be the same, or would you be a bit more patient with him?  Knowing that we have a golden opportunity, is it causing the harshest Alex critics to be MORE critical? 

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according to this, I gather they are going heavy RPO.  And i gather Alex doesn't like the blitz but you got some unexpected QBs in the good and bad categories on that one. 

 

 

 

Some other stuff

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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32 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I want to ask you an honest question because the thought popped into my head..  This is not rhetoric, I genuinely am curious about your response.  It's not directly related to this part of your post but it is related to Alex, and the two of us have had back and forth in the past..

 

Does the current situation were in, regarding a shot at the playoffs, amplify your frustration with Alex?  

 

Lets say we were 4-5 right now... the Eagles were 7-2 coming off a Superbowl, Dallas is 5-4, and the Giants are 4-5ish... Coming into the season this would have been more of what we would have been expected.  Would your frustrations of Alex be the same, or would you be a bit more patient with him?  Knowing that we have a golden opportunity, is it causing the harshest Alex critics to be MORE critical? 

 

Maybe. Knowing that the rest of the team is playing pretty well and he is holding them back?

Knowing that the passing offense, which was the only thing we had going for years, is now the worst part of the team?

 

To be honest, I expected that, but I did not expect the D to play as well as it is, and nobody expected Peterson. So, knowing all this now, I think it's probably fair to think that if we were like 3-6, with the Defense playing like it has the past several years, and the running being 27th in the league, and Alex being Alex it might be a little less frustrating, because this would all be expected. Now, we've seen a big jump in areas that have been bad/terrible for years, and they are now playing MUCH better. Only to be handcuffed by a former strength.

 

Sure, I think you could say it's going to make people go after Alex harder. Especially when he was touted as a "upgrade". That might be the biggest reason though. As well as others still buying into that.

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7 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Maybe. Knowing that the rest of the team is playing pretty well and he is holding them back?

Knowing that the passing offense, which was the only thing we had going for years, is now the worst part of the team?

 

To be honest, I expected that, but I did not expect the D to play as well as it is, and nobody expected Peterson. So, knowing all this now, I think it's probably fair to think that if we were like 3-6, with the Defense playing like it has the past several years, and the running being 27th in the league, and Alex being Alex it might be a little less frustrating, because this would all be expected. Now, we've seen a big jump in areas that have been bad/terrible for years, and they are now playing MUCH better. Only to be handcuffed by a former strength.

 

Sure, I think you could say it's going to make people go after Alex harder. Especially when he was touted as a "upgrade". That might be the biggest reason though. As well as others still buying into that.

 

 

I just start to wonder if people might have a level of patience to let Alex get more integrated into this offense, with these players, and see if he can continue to gain success if we weren't where we are with this opportunity staring us in the face.  

 

Would people be this frustrated with him without the idea that we'd get blown out in the 1st round against a high powered offense... 

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21 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I just start to wonder if people might have a level of patience to let Alex get more integrated into this offense, with these players, and see if he can continue to gain success if we weren't where we are with this opportunity staring us in the face.  

 

Would people be this frustrated with him without the idea that we'd get blown out in the 1st round against a high powered offense... 

 

Not to be snarky, but is that a real question?

 

I think every single Redskins fan would LOVE to feel that if we got into a shoot out, we'd have a chance. Playoffs or not.

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1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not to be snarky, but is that a real question?

 

I think every single Redskins fan would LOVE to feel that if we got into a shoot out, we'd have a chance. Playoffs or not.

 

 

What i meant was, if we weren't exactly in contention for a legit playoff run, then the concern of getting blown out in the first week of the playoffs is not there... so I wonder how many people are turning on Alex (not necessarily you or anyone in particular) because of the position were in, and not necessarily because of Alex's play.  If they would be looking at Alex with more patience to see what he can do in this offense for a whole season... and not burning torches trying to find ways to get out of his contract.  

 

I agree, every Redskins fan would LOVE to feel like we'd have a chance to win a shootout.. myself included. 

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44 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I just start to wonder if people might have a level of patience to let Alex get more integrated into this offense, with these players, and see if he can continue to gain success if we weren't where we are with this opportunity staring us in the face.  

 

Would people be this frustrated with him without the idea that we'd get blown out in the 1st round against a high powered offense... 

What you wrote here and above is exactly why i am frustrated.  Knowing we will probably get to the playoffs and subsequently be embarrassed in the first round because our QB play in the passing game is so poor.  There is no way we can keep up with the dynamic offenses of either the Rams or the Saints as two examples. 

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I would think the opposite. If we WEREN'T winning I think this place would be in meltdown mode over the Alex situation. If we were 4-5 with THIS offensive output, it would be a disaster. 

 

The reason we have patience as a fan base is because there are logical cases to be made that his low turnover rate and intangibles might be contributing to some of these wins. If the wins weren't there...yikes. 

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3 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

What i meant was, if we weren't exactly in contention for a legit playoff run, then the concern of getting blown out in the first week of the playoffs is not there... so I wonder how many people are turning on Alex (not necessarily you or anyone in particular) because of the position were in, and not necessarily because of Alex's play.  If they would be looking at Alex with more patience to see what he can do in this offense for a whole season... and not burning torches trying to find ways to get out of his contract.  

 

I agree, every Redskins fan would LOVE to feel like we'd have a chance to win a shootout.. myself included. 

 

I don't think so, at least not for me.

 

Without going into detail over the last 3 years, the QB play has fallen off. Then there is the contract. On one side, you can say "that if we had better QB play, we'd be a force in the playoffs, a complete team." On the other side (bad record) "we paid 71 million guaranteed to a 35 year old QB that was supposed to make us better, and he ****ing sucks! We're not even a .500 team anymore. We're fighting the Giants for last place and a top 5 pick, but if we draft a QB, we STILL have to pay this bum!"

 

So, as to that, I don't think it makes difference. QB play is worse. The only thing that really changes is what is the play going to get us. Or not get us, as the case may be.

 

I can't speak for anyone else on the matter though.

Edited by Morneblade
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47 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I just start to wonder if people might have a level of patience to let Alex get more integrated into this offense, with these players, and see if he can continue to gain success if we weren't where we are with this opportunity staring us in the face.  

 

Would people be this frustrated with him without the idea that we'd get blown out in the 1st round against a high powered offense... 

Speaking for myself, I’ve never been a big fan of the whole Alex Smith “stats are for losers” style of football.  Perhaps 15 years ago I’d feel different.  Now say Alex was going into his fourth or fifth year in the league where we weren’t certain what Alex Smith football is, the tolerance level would be higher.  I understand he needs weapons to play his best, like anyone else.  But we don’t have all the time or money in the world to acquire said weapons. So 6-3 or 3-6 with his performance just the same, I don’t think moves the needle much for me.  

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I think with the injured offensive line Alex does not feel secure in the pocket and if you think about it over the last few years our quarterbacks panic when they get blitzed on third down.  Even the Bucs blitzed Alex on third down and they had success but fortunately they did not blitz that often.  I wonder if the Houston Texans will decide to blitz Alex more often?  Also wonder who will be our starters this week on the offensive line.  

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1 minute ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I think with the injured offensive line Alex does not feel secure in the pocket and if you think about it over the last few years our quarterbacks panic when they get blitzed on third down.  Even the Bucs blitzed Alex on third down and they had success but fortunately they did not blitz that often.  I wonder if the Houston Texans will decide to blitz Alex more often?  Also wonder who will be our starters this week on the offensive line.  

 

On a given play, a blitz can catch you off-guard and work well. But, if it becomes clear that Houston is going to blitz a lot on passing downs I think Gruden/Smith would pretty quickly be able to come up with a counter punch (slipping Bibbs out into space or running Davis/Reed on a quick hot route). 

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8 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I think with the injured offensive line Alex does not feel secure in the pocket and if you think about it over the last few years our quarterbacks panic when they get blitzed on third down.  Even the Bucs blitzed Alex on third down and they had success but fortunately they did not blitz that often.  I wonder if the Houston Texans will decide to blitz Alex more often?  Also wonder who will be our starters this week on the offensive line.  

 

Not true.

 

https://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/11/28/puttin-on-the-blitz-cousins-excels-under-pressure/

 

But to add, Smith is usually better against the blitz than he has been this year.

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Football outsiders for those interested.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

PASSING: Minimum 150 passes, 33 players ranked

Player Team DYAR ▴ Rk YAR Rk DVOA Rk VOA QBR Rk Pass Yards EYds TD FK FL INT C% DPI ALEX
P.Mahomes KC 1,427 1 1,264 2 50.1% 1 43.1% 83.6 2 363 3,041 3,817 31 2 0 6 67.3% 5/69 3.2
D.Brees NO 1,222 2 1,274 1 46.3% 2 48.7% 86.2 1 313 2,516 3,376 21 0 0 1 77.6% 7/91 -0.8
M.Ryan ATL 1,028 3 1,071 3 31.3% 5 33.1% 71.3 7 376 2,846 3,350 21 1 2 3 71.5% 7/176 -0.2
J.Goff LAR 1,023 4 984 4 31.9% 4 30.3% 75.0 5 352 3,013 3,307 22 3 0 5 68.4% 4/93 -0.7
P.Rivers LAC 871 5 871 5 36.5% 3 36.4% 75.5 3 284 2,384 2,659 21 0 0 4 67.3% 0/0 2.3
B.Roethlisberger PIT 805 6 695 6 20.5% 7 16.2% 72.8 6 381 2,798 3,146 21 1 2 7 66.1% 4/55 1.2
R.Fitzpatrick TB 550 7 524 7 24.4% 6 22.7% 69.9 8 238 2,123 1,994 17 2 1 9 67.1% 2/34 2.0
T.Brady NE 440 8 471 8 6.0% 12 7.2% 65.9 11 385 2,626 2,668 17 2 2 7 65.8% 4/76 4.3
A.Rodgers GB 421 9 439 10 6.0% 13 6.7% 56.1 19 378 2,510 2,559 17 1 3 1 62.0% 2/42 3.1
J.Flacco BAL 415 10 258 17 4.8% 14 -1.2% 56.9 18 393 2,374 2,662 12 2 1 6 61.7% 8/159 1.7
K.Cousins MIN 413 11 389 14 4.7% 15 3.7% 64.7 12 388 2,503 2,675 17 2 5 5 71.7% 4/33 0.6
D.Watson HOU 405 12 448 9 9.6% 8 11.8% 58.9 16 312 2,219 2,129 17 5 1 7 66.1% 4/122 0.5
M.Trubisky CHI 389 13 423 11 7.5% 9 9.2% 75.3 4 307 2,192 2,207 19 2 2 7 65.7% 8/182 3.6
C.Newton CAR 358 14 399 13 6.6% 10 8.7% 61.1 14 307 1,933 2,100 17 3 0 5 69.4% 2/40 1.2
A.Luck IND 351 15 375 15 2.7% 17 3.6% 69.3 9 382 2,360 2,522 26 2 1 9 66.7% 5/107 -0.5
C.Wentz PHI 331 16 403 12 6.4% 11 10.2% 66.6 10 290 1,979 1,960 15 1 5 3 71.8% 3/77 0.2
R.Wilson SEA 262 17 249 18 4.5% 16 3.7% 58.4 17 270 1,760 1,700 21 3 2 4 67.9% 2/29 1.3
D.Carr OAK 254 18 172 21 0.0% 18 -3.6% 47.1 25 344 2,275 2,176 10 1 3 8 72.2% 2/30 0.5
M.Stafford DET 217 19 175 20 -1.7% 19 -3.6% 54.1 21 359 2,198 2,158 16 2 2 8 67.0% 6/129 1.2
A.Dalton CIN 174 20 292 16 -3.0% 20 2.6% 61.5 13 329 2,098 1,955 18 1 1 9 63.8% 6/95 0.6
B.Bortles JAX 69 21 108 22 -8.1% 21 -6.4% 52.7 22 348 2,257 1,951 12 3 1 7 61.3% 0/0 -0.3
C.Keenum DEN 50 22 -22 25 -8.9% 22 -12.1% 43.8 28 354 2,233 1,887 11 4 1 9 63.6% 5/61 0.8
A.Smith WAS 12 23 202 19 -10.6% 23 -1.2% 51.3 24 320 1,920 1,655 10 4 1 3 65.0% 4/77 0.0
M.Mariota TEN -2 24 -56 26 -11.3% 24 -14.9% 61.1 15 229 1,352 1,204 7 3 1 5 67.0% 5/64 2.9
B.Mayfield CLE -30 25 33 24 -12.7% 25 -9.4% 46.8 26 307 1,828 1,525 13 1 2 7 62.0% 3/53 -0.8
E.Manning NYG -38 26 78 23 -12.7% 26 -7.8% 45.5 27 377 2,331 1,841 11 2 2 6 67.8% 7/131 -1.5
J.Winston TB -63 27 -119 29 -17.1% 27 -22.3% 55.8 20 161 1,112 767 6 1 1 10 65.3% 2/30 3.2
B.Osweiler MIA -80 28 -61 27 -17.3% 28 -15.9% 38.5 31 194 1,118 930 7 0 1 4 63.8% 1/3 0.8
C.J.Beathard SF -125 29 -207 30 -21.7% 30 -28.7% 43.6 29 188 1,101 782 8 1 3 7 60.4% 1/6 -1.3
D.Prescott DAL -140 30 -117 28 -18.5% 29 -17.3% 51.5 23 305 1,739 1,342 11 0 3 5 64.1% 2/18 -1.1
J.Rosen ARI -367 31 -457 32 -36.8% 32 -43.1% 38.5 30 228 1,122 658 6 2 2 8 56.3% 4/59 -0.9
S.Darnold NYJ -393 32 -394 31 -31.8% 31 -31.8% 33.1 32 311 1,801 1,000 11 1 1 14 55.2% 1/5 0.4
J.Allen BUF -470 33 -512 33 -59.4% 33 -63.7% 32.9 33 162 657 142 2 3 0 5 54.0% 1/20 1.5

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The issue I think most have with Smith is not the stats, its what the eyes see.  It is so painful to watch this offense.  Its unpleasant.  If we were 9-0, because the teams we played were so bad they fumbled the ball without being touched, and dropped all of their passes, it wouldnt make me feel better about Alex Smith and the offense, because it would still be just as ugly, just someone else is uglier.

 

Its like with any sport, you can enjoy watching your team play and rooting for them when they play well, even if they lose you can feel proud in them.  But watching complete incompetence and just really ugly play just doesnt make for good viewing, no matter the stats or win/lose column. The Bucs game was one of the least fun Redskins wins Ive ever seen, just simply because for 90% of the game I watched a play run where the Redskins got beat, and played poorly.  It was great that we won, but the reality was out of 122 plays, the Redskins won about 10 of them, the Bucs botched about 10 of them, and the other 100 the Bucs won both offensively and defensively.  The reason we won was because the few plays we won we won BIG.  But that also means you had to sit there and watch your side lose 90% of the time, which is really just not that much fun.  The main problem I think people have with Alex is hes just painful to watch.

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