Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Jay is the evil genius. He's asking Alex to tank it just enough so as to not loose these games. So Alex is a MASTER QB who can dominate the game to control win by one score. Alex lost to Atlanta on purpose so their record to the Playoffs will require the Skins to travel away from RFK so they can win in the playoffs in front of the "BETTER" Skins Fans at other stadiums.The Skins will Visit the Vikings and SMOKE EM 72 to nothing. He suckered the Saints into winning BIG so when we play them next time in the NFCC they will be over confident and blow it.

 

SUPER BOWL HERE WE GO!!! Alex is planning to kidnap Belichick....

[Temper11]

On 11/12/2018 at 1:04 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

Smith's QB rating now is his worst since 2013.

Smith's Completion Percentage is his worst since 2013.

Smith's average yards per completion is his worst since 2013.

 

Not only is that a pattern, but the significance of 2013 is that was his first year in KC.

And after that 1st year, he continued to progress each year in KC, up until last year.

 

What all of that strongly indicates, is that it's a matter of taking time to get comfortable in a new offense.

 

 

This.  This isn't Smith at his best - but he is still taking care of the football and managing to wins while he gets his legs under him.  You may not ever love him, but you can expect better.  Hopefully the dudes around him start playing better too - AP notwithstanding. 

[Temper11]

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m sure 49ers and KC fans probably said the same thing.  Then they showed up here to laugh at us taking the guy they once thought that about off of their hands.

Until very recently with Garraopolo and now the excitement around Mullins... Niner-fan would have welcomed Smith back with a big "I'm sorry" basket of napa valley wine.  KC fan is just patting themselves on that back as if a Mahomes-type player is as easily got as just drafting a big arm and turning him loose.  Most of the time, it doesn't work out as good as it has in KC. 

[max21]

Listening to NFL podcast today and hearing about all the other bad QB play around the league, for a about one second I’m glad we don’t have the QB drama the Bills, Giants, Bucs and Dolphins have etc. We could be 3-6 with Colt McCoy and be looking for QB answers and things would be way worse off. Alex isn’t the best QB but we are winning with him, our previous quarterbacks never had us at 6-3. 

[Morneblade]

20 hours ago, Temper11 said:

 

This.  This isn't Smith at his best - but he is still taking care of the football and managing to wins while he gets his legs under him.  You may not ever love him, but you can expect better.  Hopefully the dudes around him start playing better too - AP notwithstanding. 

 

And yet, he's well within his 5 year average. He's not playing markedly worse, even with his 17' season factored in, which was far better than anything he's done before.

And then there is the pointing fingers at everyone else. Like the insinuating WR's are making him worse, when they are at the top of the league in drop% and there are guys running open that he either doesn't see, or looks right at them and goes elsewhere.

 

Maybe it's actually him that is making everyone else look worse. Maybe it's his happy feet that get him into trouble with pressure, the missed throws of wide open guys, the bad clock management, ect.

 

So he's not loosing games. And that is fine. But he is not winning them either. And he is holding the team back.

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Jay is the evil genius. He's asking Alex to tank it just enough so as to not loose these games. So Alex is a MASTER QB who can dominate the game to control win by one score. Alex lost to Atlanta on purpose so their record to the Playoffs will require the Skins to travel away from RFK so they can win in the playoffs in front of the "BETTER" Skins Fans at other stadiums.The Skins will Visit the Vikings and SMOKE EM 72 to nothing. He suckered the Saints into winning BIG so when we play them next time in the NFCC they will be over confident and blow it.

 

SUPER BOWL HERE WE GO!!! Alex is planning to kidnap Belichick....

 

Pass the pipe to me because I would really like to hit that

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Pass the pipe to me because I would really like to hit that

 

There is a reason I have that guy on ignore........

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

43 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Pass the pipe to me because I would really like to hit that

?

[kingdaddy]

In looking around the league you see that most teams have QB's they are committed to for the next 2 plus years and this should bode well for the Skins over the next 1 -3 drafts. We need to get a QB of the future in next years draft and we can't miss on it. 

I also think we need a young TE that can get down the field and be a redzone threat but we need to be all in on a top QB prospect and do what it takes to get one in 2019. We have a good young corp on defense, gotta get a QB of the future.

[wit33]

14 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

And yet, he's well within his 5 year average. He's not playing markedly worse, even with his 17' season factored in, which was far better than anything he's done before.

And then there is the pointing fingers at everyone else. Like the insinuating WR's are making him worse, when they are at the top of the league in drop% and there are guys running open that he either doesn't see, or looks right at them and goes elsewhere.

 

Maybe it's actually him that is making everyone else look worse. Maybe it's his happy feet that get him into trouble with pressure, the missed throws of wide open guys, the bad clock management, ect.

 

She he's not loosing games. And that is fine. But he is not winning them either. And he is holding the team back.

 

I think most (either side of Smith debate) want to see an increased level of comfort in the system. 

 

Numbers have value and place in any argument, but it’s not close to an end all be all. If the team was 3-6, Alex would have a higher yardage/td/INT number. Alex’s teams and style have afforded him opportunities to be conservative in many games throughout the last 5-7 years in the league. No, I don’t believe he can just turn it on and be a gun slinger, but fortunately his history and time with Skins to date tells us he’s hell bent on not putting himself in position of having to often. 

 

This is not an attempt to absolve Smith from any responsibility in the below average passing attack we’ve seen to date, or that improvements need to take place for another step to be made as a team. 

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I think most (either side of Smith debate) want to see an increased level of comfort in the system. 

 

I sure hope so.

 

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Numbers have value and place in any argument, but it’s not close to an end all be all. If the team was 3-6, Alex would have a higher yardage/td/INT number. Alex’s teams and style have afforded him opportunities to be conservative in many games throughout the last 5-7 years in the league. No, I don’t believe he can just turn it on and be a gun slinger, but fortunately his history and time with Skins to date tells us he’s hell bent on not putting himself in position of having to often. 

 

The numbers are at least quantifiable. Alex would likely have a larger numbers if he was loosing, but I'm not sure if it would be a large margin over what he has now. After all, he's on pace for his 2nd highest yardage total. Alex is actually pretty consistent. Even when behind, he doesn't push much.

 

To your second comment here, I'm not sure what to make of it. The bolded section. I assume you mean by making mistakes and getting the team behind? Well, ultra-conservative play will do that as well, as we have seen in our 3 losses. And when that does happen, we have no chance of coming back.

 

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

This is not an attempt to absolve Smith from any responsibility in the below average passing attack we’ve seen to date, or that improvements need to take place for another step to be made as a team. 

 

Glad you are coming around.

[Renegade7]

There's really nowhere to go but up, so i can see convincing ones self that because we are stuck with him to stay optimistic.  

[Taylor 36]

16 hours ago, max21 said:

Listening to NFL podcast today and hearing about all the other bad QB play around the league, for a about one second I’m glad we don’t have the QB drama the Bills, Giants, Bucs and Dolphins have etc. We could be 3-6 with Colt McCoy and be looking for QB answers and things would be way worse off. Alex isn’t the best QB but we are winning with him, our previous quarterbacks never had us at 6-3. 

We are winning despite of him, and previous QB's, including the last guy have had us there, but this isn't the thread to talk about that.  I will say, though, that Zorn and Campbell had us at 6-3 as well.  It was fool's gold then, and I can't see anyway with current QB play it isn't fool's gold now.

[max21]

50 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

We are winning despite of him, and previous QB's, including the last guy have had us there, but this isn't the thread to talk about that.  I will say, though, that Zorn and Campbell had us at 6-3 as well.  It was fool's gold then, and I can't see anyway with current QB play it isn't fool's gold now.

I felt okay about it for 30 minutes, let me live here. 

[HardcoreZorn]

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

To your second comment here, I'm not sure what to make of it. The bolded section. I assume you mean by making mistakes and getting the team behind? Well, ultra-conservative play will do that as well, as we have seen in our 3 losses. And when that does happen, we have no chance of coming back.

So basically what you are saying is, take the good with the bad? Cause the good has helped to contribute to our 6 wins and the bad has certainly contributed to our losses. But one of those numbers is greater than the other. Alex has pretty respectable come from behind wins and 4th quarter come backs prior to this season by the way.

 

But the above is why you don't come off as objective, at all, when discussing Smith. Those like @wit33 play both sides. He acknowledges that being careful with the football and managing the game has been helpful for this type of team. Yet also plain as day has admitted he hasn't been good enough, needs to improve, and a big reason why when we went down early we were unable to come back.

 

Alex hasn't been good enough, period. Not for the money we paid him, nor the fact we had to give up Fuller in the process. So it's more than understandable to think maybe going after a Bridgewater would have been a more prudent move. Though let's not forget he was coming off a potentially career threatening injury, and it wasn't until he demonstrated in pre-season with the Jets that he seemed to have bounced back. Still, I could see the argument.

 

But the insistence on only focusing on the negative, and acting as if playing safe and smart football does nothing for a football team just makes it seem as if you have a constant axe to grind. And we all know why, can't talk about it anymore. But you truly represent yourself as someone who would rather be a fan of the "exciting" 3-6 Bucs. Would you prefer that? After all, if that team goes down, they have a chance to come back!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Why is it that folks are acting like QB criticism is a new thing here?  

 

Very short memories, I guess.

 

Folks have killed every QB to play for this team since I can remember.  

[PF Chang]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why is it that folks are acting like QB criticism is a new thing here?  

 

Very short memories, I guess.

 

Folks have killed every QB to play for this team since I can remember.  

 

Yeah I don't recall too many Brunell fans. And this year is basically 2005. 

 

We had a great defense and a veteran QB who played it safe but every touchdown was a minor miracle. We had 120 yards of offense in the playoff win in Tampa which has to still be the record for fewest yards in a playoff win. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Yeah I don't recall too many Brunell fans. And this year is basically 2005. 

 

We had a great defense and a veteran QB who played it safe but every touchdown was a minor miracle. We had 120 yards of offense in the playoff win in Tampa which has to still be the record for fewest yards in a playoff win. 

Very 2005-ish to me too.

[Morneblade]

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

So basically what you are saying is, take the good with the bad? Cause the good has helped to contribute to our 6 wins and the bad has certainly contributed to our losses. But one of those numbers is greater than the other. Alex has pretty respectable come from behind wins and 4th quarter come backs prior to this season by the way.

 

It's not great. 22 over 14 years. 11 in 3 years is much better.

 

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

But the above is why you don't come off as objective, at all, when discussing Smith. Those like @wit33 play both sides. He acknowledges that being careful with the football and managing the game has been helpful for this type of team. Yet also plain as day has admitted he hasn't been good enough, needs to improve, and a big reason why when we went down early we were unable to come back.

 

If there is anyone that should not be giving instructions on how to be objective about Alex Smith, it's you. I've acknowledged Smith positives. I don't gloss over his negatives, which there are much more, or start with "intangibles". I've said from day 1 what he was, and that was not terribly popular at the time. I've not changed my stance, but his play has changed a lot of people's minds about how much of a "upgrade" we really got. Honestly, it's the collective agenda from you and a few others that fails to take into account what is actually happening on the field, and then try to paint Smith's performances are much better than they are. And that, does tick me off a bit. Mostly because it's false, and it's being passed off as true.

 

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Alex hasn't been good enough, period. Not for the money we paid him, nor the fact we had to give up Fuller in the process. So it's more than understandable to think maybe going after a Bridgewater would have been a more prudent move. Though let's not forget he was coming off a potentially career threatening injury, and it wasn't until he demonstrated in pre-season with the Jets that he seemed to have bounced back. Still, I could see the argument.

 

Well, it's about time you actually came out and stated that. Of course @wit33 would go on about salary cap % and how he's being paid like a average QB and playing like it (even though he has the 9th largest contract in the NFL and is playing like the 25th ranked QB,) because he's objective.

 

Whatever.

 

But yes, Smith has played well below his contract, but not well below his standard of play for the last 5 years. In other words, he's not playing badly, for him.

 

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

But the insistence on only focusing on the negative, and acting as if playing safe and smart football does nothing for a football team just makes it seem as if you have a constant axe to grind. And we all know why, can't talk about it anymore. But you truly represent yourself as someone who would rather be a fan of the "exciting" 3-6 Bucs. Would you prefer that? After all, if that team goes down, they have a chance to come back!

 

But I don't.

 

I commented in the last couple of days that he's looking better, and improving on the things that he historically should be better at. Baby steps, as I said, because we SHOULDNT have to be dealing with this from a 14 year Vet, but he was making strides.

 

And let me put it this way. Yeah, I'd rather have some sort of hope that we could come back from ANY kind of deficit, rather than knowing as soon as we go down by 10 points at any time during a game, that we're finished. I'd rather feel like our defense doesn't have to hold every team under 20 points to have any shot of winning a ball game. I'd rather have HOPE, that with 5 minuets left and down 6, WE COULD ACTUALLY WIN THE GAME.

 

Yeah, I'd like that. Right now, we don't have it because the QB. I'm glad you're finally able to admit that he's playing poorly.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

The numbers are at least quantifiable. Alex would likely have a larger numbers if he was loosing, but I'm not sure if it would be a large margin over what he has now. After all, he's on pace for his 2nd highest yardage total. Alex is actually pretty consistent. Even when behind, he doesn't push much.

 

Numbers have value in any debate, no doubt. Alex is becoming an exception to any number debate, as his statistical totals have never been great (not even last year— from a totals perspective), but he’s on pace to QB 3 different teams to playoffs, other two multiple times. 

 

I believe he’s wired to situationally push the ball, but realizes it doesn’t play to his Individual strengths to consistently be aggressive. I’m not defending this or saying it’s a right or wrong, just my thoughts from watching and listening to him. 

 

Quote

 

To your second comment here, I'm not sure what to make of it. The bolded section. I assume you mean by making mistakes and getting the team behind? Well, ultra-conservative play will do that as well, as we have seen in our 3 losses. And when that does happen, we have no chance of coming back.

 

Situational scrambles/scripted run options, limiting sacks/sack yardage, and protecting the football, being accurate in short game, and improvising 

 

Managing each situation in a game with great detail, due to believing any moment can be the pivotal moment in a game that changes the momentum. 

 

Hes made comebacks in his career. Being down 10 points or whatever situation many choose to cast upon Smith is extremely difficult for the average to above average QBs and not ideal for the elite. 

 

Quote

 

Glad you are coming around.

 

I’m choosing to look at whole picture and see value Smith has displayed, but understand improvements must be made. I’m confident Smith and Gruden will get it figured out. Two dudes that appear to have the required     self-esteem/worth to come together. 

[wit33]

35 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Well, it's about time you actually came out and stated that. Of course @wit33 would go on about salary cap % and how he's being paid like a average QB and playing like it (even though he has the 9th largest contract in the NFL and is playing like the 25th ranked QB,) because he's objective.

 

This eliminates any value in contract in future years, as new QB deals will be signed and the salary cap will increase. 

 

Taking the total contract and dividing it by the years is lazy and wrong. Teams aren’t operating like this. 

 

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

It's not great. 22 over 14 years. 11 in 3 years is much better.

Well games played it's more like 11 years, or 2 a year on average. Still, to say he can NEVER do it is a blatant lie. He's done it 22 times throughout his career. BTW Rodgers has 19 in about ten years worth of games played for comparison. Arguably the best arm talent of all time.

 

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

If there is anyone that should not be giving instructions on how to be objective about Alex Smith, it's you. I've acknowledged Smith positives. I don't gloss over his negatives, which there are much more, or start with "intangibles". I've said from day 1 what he was, and that was not terribly popular at the time. I've not changed my stance, but his play has changed a lot of people's minds about how much of a "upgrade" we really got. Honestly, it's the collective agenda from you and a few others that fails to take into account what is actually happening on the field, and then try to paint Smith's performances are much better than they are. And that, does tick me off a bit. Mostly because it's false, and it's being passed off as true.

Nah, me and some others have realized that playing smart football and managing a football game, while boring, isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's why KC finished top 5 in TO differential all 5 seasons there, and coincidentally went to the playoffs all 5 seasons. It's part of the reason we are 6-3 this year, because we find ourselves top 5 in that very statistic.

 

Me and others also realize there's a lot to improve on, he must be better, and we call him on it. That's called looking at the good and the bad. You only look at the bad. To say, "this is the best he's played in a month plus but still a bad performance" is not you acknowledging positives. No one is buying that garbage.

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Well, it's about time you actually came out and stated that. Of course @wit33 would go on about salary cap % and how he's being paid like a average QB and playing like it (even though he has the 9th largest contract in the NFL and is playing like the 25th ranked QB,) because he's objective.

Said it many times, unfortunately you read what you want to read.

 

And @wit33 is a 100% right. It's guaranteed money and % of the CAP you should be looking at when trying to build a team around a QB. That's why those last two years on the deal DO serve a purpose, even if he never sees them. It spreads the cap over more years. After this season Smith will be hovering around the 20's in % of cap allocated to the position. That means only roughly 10 teams will be allotting less of their cap to their starting QB. That equals more money to spend on other guys, to help the team. It's pretty easy to understand, not sure what is rocket science about it.

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

And let me put it this way. Yeah, I'd rather have some sort of hope that we could come back from ANY kind of deficit, rather than knowing as soon as we go down by 10 points at any time during a game, that we're finished. I'd rather feel like our defense doesn't have to hold every team under 20 points to have any shot of winning a ball game. I'd rather have HOPE, that with 5 minuets left and down 6, WE COULD ACTUALLY WIN THE GAME

So you'd rather be a fan of the 3-6 Bucs? Cool, good to know. Says a lot actually and makes sense you post the way you do. I'd rather play meaningful football in december and go to the playoffs.

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Yeah, I'd like that. Right now, we don't have it because the QB. I'm glad you're finally able to admit that he's playing poorly.

God bless you.

[Commander Wolffe]

Remember in the preseason when the starters were given so few reps? Smith should have been playing at least the first half of all three games. Injuries be damned.

[Veryoldschool]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

There's really nowhere to go but up, so i can see convincing ones self that because we are stuck with him to stay optimistic.  

 

No, things could get worse, a lot worse like in 2013-2014 when the coaches were forced to play you know who and he stunk like you know what but I agree with your conclusion, stay happy because Smith is our guy for a couple of more years.  Then Dan Snyder will make a major move to draft a great new franchise QB high in the first round who will absolutely blow and we all look back with fondness to the halcyon days of Alex Smith, so we got that to look forward to which is nice. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

No, things could get worse, a lot worse like in 2013-2014 when the coaches were forced to play you know who and he stunk like you know what but I agree with your conclusion, stay happy because Smith is our guy for a couple of more years.  Then Dan Snyder will make a major move to draft a great new franchise QB high in the first round who will absolutely blow and we all look back with fondness to the halcyon days of Alex Smith, so we got that to look forward to which is nice. 

 

That was a perfect storm of failure, this is like one front until we start trading picks.  

 

I do believe we should draft a QB this year instead of wait.  Have an open competition his second year, which would be Alex last.  

 

Thats big reason i think all the enthusiasm is dented this year:  we knew this was temporary, but if we can't get the stop gap right and the previous two franchise QBs are gone, what hope is there for the next one? 

 

All the more reason to focus on one game at a time.  That can't be address for months out.  Whoever made the call to sign AP and Cooper should have front row seat in picking the next guy.