The Definition of a Loser Franchise

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

Today is the first time I have ventured into this thread. I've seen a fair amount of posts lauding Gibbs for what he was able to do with this franchise. I 100% agree, However, I also remember the tremendous amount of negativity directed at him, his roster moves, game management skills, etc during his second tenure here. A common post during those times was that Gibbs had "lost it" and the game had passed him by. Those aren't my words, but such thoughts were posted on this board with regularity back then. I don't think any of us tenured members will contest what I just said. I also suspect that if message boards existed during Gibbs first term, He and Beathard would be almost equally lambasted in spite of winning Superbowl after Superbowl. I guess thats just the type of thing that happens on the internets.

   I admit to having been critical of this FO myself. Especially with its inability to settle the QB situation. I assumed that both Cousins and Allen would/could/should sit down as responsible adults and work out whatever details necessary for a fair LTD. Didn't happen. Blame whoever you want, but it didn't happen. The Smith trade probably was the very best Plan B that we could reasonably expect from that situation.

 

Yes it was the very best situation for Bruce and co..it will keep us fans interested in the team just enough and maybe if we get lucky we will go 8-8 or 9-7 IF we are lucky. Most big moves this team does is to get Butts in seats after so long I’ve finally realized it but they won’t get my money this year at least not until we have hired a gm whose given 3 years to build a proper product so that on 3rd and 1 I don’t fear not getting it because we are good and those downs are a gimme.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

This team needed a complete rebuild after a decade of Snyder's dicking around. Philly has not needed a complete rebuild since the 90s. We are in the midst, and frankly, closer to the end product, of said rebuild.

I wish I found comfort in the thought, but I'm just not feeling it. Being in the midst of a rebuild that started 8 seasons ago and has involved 4 different changes in front office leadership, eight different starting QBs, only last week allowing the guy who was most responsible for the least unsuccessful stretch since Dan has owned the team to walk out the door for nothing, and replacing him with a shiny new QB who also happens to be 34 and is very clearly not any kind of long term solution... I admire your optimism. I just don't share it.

[Bang]

Well, i'm not saying we've been doing it very well,, just that we've been doing it. (and i will say, so far it ain't half bad. We've hit on more picks than not lately, and they are contributing successfully.)

Part of the problem as compared to the Eagles is the level of talent at the outset of the build. Their 'rebuild' if that is what it is started 2 years ago with a good solid foundation of talent. When you've had as much prior success as they did, 'rebuilding' becomes 'retooling'.

Whereas this team has to undo years of frivolity depleting the talent to nothing.

Another sure fire sign of the change is that the players we used to cut went straight to selling insurance or whatever. None of our picks were wanted by anyone.

Not so anymore. The guys we cut get picked up. Assistant coaches get hired as head coaches or upgrade themselves around the league. 

 

Gruden took what Shanahan had begun and started to tool it to fit his system, and build the players he feels he needs to get success. Like i said above,, a good many picks we have made in the last 4 years are contributing on the roster. As i said,, look at the roster and the homegrown talent there.. it's a lot more than what we've been given in the past of Snyder's reign. (I do agree he's a dolt, and has been his own worst enemy.) 

 

Building is a balancing act,, with the way contracts and the cap and free agency work into it, you're always going to have to continually replace pieces as you build. In the old days,the Steelers could keep players forever, build dynasties that didn't require such a constant need for balance. 

That is why the QB position is so critical. As you look at teams around the league with sustained success, that is the common component. They have a QB that they can mask other deficiencies with as they continually re-tool. 

We aren't there yet.. and whether Cousins is or will be that kind of a QB, for us he was what we were to hang our hat on, and now the botching of all of that has caused us to re-think how we have to do it.

the window is opening, and Alex Smith SHOULD be competent enough to keep it opening while we figure out the long term QB answer.

 

I think that had they remained healthy (meaning a normal amount of injuries, and not the apocalypse we just saw) I do think this team was capable of 10 wins. 

With Smith taking over, there isn't much of a change at talent behind center. He's smart and protects the ball. If we can use this offseason to get him a weapon or two.. a RB.. then I think they are still in that 10 win range. This trade sucks for losing Fuller,, but given the option of starting Colt, or trying at this stage to go with a rookie.. I don't mind what we've done.

 

Theoretically, Smith should be able to keep the team moving forward while we look and groom the next QB, and balance that against the careers of the other pieces of the puzzle.

 

~Bang

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Yes and Schwartz's D did a great job in the SB only giving up a record number of yards and how good was he as a HC? It is a players league and if yours are on injured reserve they can't help you. Cheers.

 

What is all this?  The Philly D was really good all year, giving up points to the greatest QB in history does not change that.  I said nothing about his head coaching, I was referring to his ability as DC and he's a whole lot better than the last 3 we have trotted out there. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Today is the first time I have ventured into this thread. I've seen a fair amount of posts lauding Gibbs for what he was able to do with this franchise. I 100% agree, However, I also remember the tremendous amount of negativity directed at him, his roster moves, game management skills, etc during his second tenure here. A common post during those times was that Gibbs had "lost it" and the game had passed him by. Those aren't my words, but such thoughts were posted on this board with regularity back then. I don't think any of us tenured members will contest what I just said. I also suspect that if message boards existed during Gibbs first term, He and Beathard would be almost equally lambasted in spite of winning Superbowl after Superbowl. I guess thats just the type of thing that happens on the internets.

   I admit to having been critical of this FO myself. Especially with its inability to settle the QB situation. I assumed that both Cousins and Allen would/could/should sit down as responsible adults and work out whatever details necessary for a fair LTD. Didn't happen. Blame whoever you want, but it didn't happen. The Smith trade probably was the very best Plan B that we could reasonably expect from that situation.6-10

 

 

Nobody has more respect for Coach Gibbs that I do. But it's a pretty good indicator of how low the bar is around here when his second tenure that resulted in 6-10; 10-6; 5-11 and 9-7 (30-34) with a 1-2 playoff record is somehow lauded as a successful run.  Included in that span was one of the lowest moments of my time as a Redskins fan:  The back to back time outs in the Sean Taylor game.  How a head coach could not know the rules still baffles me.  And then we have the string of short sighted trades of multiple draft picks for bad players that hurt the team far after he left.

 

It's not blasphemy to say this you know  It's kind of the truth.  

[hail2skins]

9 hours ago, bowhunter said:

I also suspect that if message boards existed during Gibbs first term, He and Beathard would be almost equally lambasted in spite of winning Superbowl after Superbowl. I guess thats just the type of thing that happens on the internets.

I think you're right, but it would've probably been for better reasons. Say after the 1990 season. The Skins performance through 1987, with 3 SB appearances and 2 Lombardis, had set expectations so high that three seasons of 7-9/10-6/10-6 with one playoff appearance was somewhat disappointing in comparison. You would've heard complaints about how Gibbs just couldn't seem to ever beat Parcells, that Philly, even after canning Ryan, still has Randall Cunningham and a ferocious D, and (as JKC famously said to Gibbs) "look at that team Jimmy Johnson is building in Dallas!"

 

Now after the past 25 years of BS, our benchmarks have gone to (2015) winning four in a row to get a division title at 9-7 to (2016) hey, we had consecutive non-losing seasons to (2017) HEY! Three straight seasons where we avoided double-digit losses. Pretty sad. And as has been alluded to in other threads, its not necessarily anger which is the problem, but apathy. People are saying they just don't care and don't watch as much. That stinks. 

[Rogue Jedi]

A classless owner who's a punchline for various media outlets.

 

A DC metropolitan area that has influx of fans of other teams from all over the country

 

A ****ty game venue and gameday experience.

 

Division opponents who go from the bottom of the league to Super Bowl champs in 2 years.

 

And to top it all off, nearly 30 years of suck with absolutely nothing to show.

 

This fan base is weathered, watered-down, and morale is waning to to unprecedented levels. It's clearly starting to show. If this keeps up for another 10 years, I fear it's gonna be rare to find a Redskins fan even in the DMV area.

[Louskins9193]

The Deadskins keep making the same moves expecting different results, its time to bring in the men in white coats and haul these loony tunes away!

We have been the joke of the NFL for the last 20 years and I don't see any end in sight anytime soon.

[skins island connection]

13 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I wish I found comfort in the thought, but I'm just not feeling it. Being in the midst of a rebuild that started 8 seasons ago and has involved 4 different changes in front office leadership, eight different starting QBs, only last week allowing the guy who was most responsible for the least unsuccessful stretch since Dan has owned the team to walk out the door for nothing, and replacing him with a shiny new QB who also happens to be 34 and is very clearly not any kind of long term solution... I admire your optimism. I just don't share it.

 Yea, E.F. Hutton took it up the yang yang yesterday, the stock market was wild.

 

 This franchise is like owning a classic car; you need a part or 2, and instead of buying the factory part, they keep buying cheap Chinese aftermarket crap that breaks, and keeps replacing time after time with the same Chinese parts.

I swear to anything and everything holy, I will throw the biggest GTFO party when Bruce Allen is finally shown the door.

[Mr. Sinister]

Bruce Allen is just an appetizer. I will not feel a shred of optimism until I see who the replacement will be. If it's someone within his Redskins nerd circle, that's gonna be a hard sell.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Bruce Allen is just an appetizer. I will not feel a shred of optimism until I see who the replacement will be. If it's someone within his Redskins nerd circle, that's gonna be a hard sell.

We're not getting anyone good. #1: Dan probably won't try to get a real football guy in here. #2: Even if he did, the real football guys all know that he is toxic.

[I Love The Skins]

5 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said:

his fan base is weathered, watered-down, and morale is waning to to unprecedented levels. It's clearly starting to show. If this keeps up for another 10 years, I fear it's gonna be rare to find a Redskins fan even in the DMV area.

I have no problem seeing  #Redskins fans in the DMV area, everytime I go out.

[Rocky21]

10 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Bruce Allen is just an appetizer. I will not feel a shred of optimism until I see who the replacement will be. If it's someone within his Redskins nerd circle, that's gonna be a hard sell.

Wonder what Pepper Rodgers is doing these days. 

[SkinsFTW]

Or watch them try to claim that Bruce is going to be out of personnel decisions in 2019 and they hire Chris Cooley as the "real GM" after everybody says the 49ers made a genius move next year when they win more games. 

 

Any style of dumpster fire is possible but one form or another is guaranteed.

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

Or watch them try to claim that Bruce is going to be out of personnel decisions in 2019 and they hire Chris Cooley as the "real GM" after everybody says the 49ers made a genius move next year when they win more games. 

 

Any style of dumpster fire is possible but one form or another is guaranteed.

Chris s Cooley wouldn’t be worse than Bruce Allen even at 0 experience outside playing the game

[SkinsFTW]

6 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Chris s Cooley wouldn’t be worse than Bruce Allen even at 0 experience outside playing the game

 

[CjSuAvE22]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Haha I wasn’t advocating but Bruce’s win pct is worse than cerratos how can you possibly be worse than that and contrary to popular belief I don’t think we are better off now than where we were under cerrato

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 2/6/2018 at 4:40 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

What is all this?  The Philly D was really good all year, giving up points to the greatest QB in history does not change that.  I said nothing about his head coaching, I was referring to his ability as DC and he's a whole lot better than the last 3 we have trotted out there. 

I remember after the Redskins demolished the Broncos in the super bowl and a reporter asked JJG why his team was able to pull off such a one sided victory over Dan Reeves and Joe said, "simple, I had better players than Reeves had."

[Burgold]

12 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I remember after the Redskins demolished the Broncos in the super bowl and a reporter asked JJG why his team was able to pull off such a one sided victory over Dan Reeves and Joe said, "simple, I had better players than Reeves had."

Yeah, but Gibbs was also the most modest self-effacing guy who's ever been named head coach. I am not sure anyone can find a single quote attributed to Gibbs where he bragged on his performance or how he outcoached anyone.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Nobody has more respect for Coach Gibbs that I do. But it's a pretty good indicator of how low the bar is around here when his second tenure that resulted in 6-10; 10-6; 5-11 and 9-7 (30-34) with a 1-2 playoff record is somehow lauded as a successful run.  Included in that span was one of the lowest moments of my time as a Redskins fan:  The back to back time outs in the Sean Taylor game.  How a head coach could not know the rules still baffles me.  And then we have the string of short sighted trades of multiple draft picks for bad players that hurt the team far after he left.

 

It's not blasphemy to say this you know  It's kind of the truth.  

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 9:59 AM, Rocky21 said:

Wonder what Pepper Rodgers is doing these days. 

Is that Iron Mans' girlfriend?

[Rocky21]

4 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Is that Iron Mans' girlfriend?

 

If you don't remember the near Pepper Rodgers fiasco consider yourself very lucky. 

[Redskins Reparations]

On 2/6/2018 at 6:16 PM, skins island connection said:

This franchise is like owning a classic car; you need a part or 2, and instead of buying the factory part, they keep buying cheap Chinese aftermarket crap that breaks, and keeps replacing time after time with the same Chinese parts.

 

Or trying to utilize parts designed for an automobile that requires the metric system and forcing them to fit in an automobile that requires imperial measured parts.