Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins
Forum Rules and Guidelines

Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

CRobi21

By CRobi21
in The Stadium

Recommended Posts

RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Andy Benoit just on Cooley-Sheehan.  I'll ignore his tougher commentary about Alex and just focus on what Cooley and him agreed on.  On my end, the Kirk comparisons is only driven by what our offense is used to versus how it likely changes.  My point isn't a tit for tat comparison.

 

Strength over Kirk

He's really good at helping the run game and short passing game if Jay adapts his offense accordingly.  He is good with ball handling, misdirection, etc.  So if Jay brings some of the KC playbook with pre-snap motions in the attempt to confuse opponents -- it should all help.  In other words, Jay has to change his offense some.  Also adapt more read option, RPO. 

 

Weakness versus Kirk

Kirk stands in the pocket and goes through his progressions and is willing to work through traffic that's in his face.  Alex doesn't do it.   If there is a sign of danger or the 2nd read isn't open, Alex is off to the races and is scrambling. Benoit compares it to Wilson and Kaepernick in that regard but without their speed.  And neither Benoit and Cooley are impressed with what happens typically when Smith scrambles even though he has some good runs in that mix.

 

 

So important to draft a QB high in this draft to be ready in case Smith has a career ending injury, which I hope doesn't happen of course.  We need to fill out LG position with an excellent FA or draft pick.  We need a Hill type WR and a Hunt type RB to make this OF click with Smith in FA or the draft.  Thus, you need a QB drafted that can sit and learn behind Smith and not some 5th, 6th or 7th round pick either.  As I have stated, if Mayfield falls to #13, you take him all day long.  If he is taken and Allen or one of the other so called blue chip QBs is still available you trade down, pick up extra picks and nab Lauletta or White in the 3rd/4th.  By the way, SIP love your posts.  Keep them coming, my friend. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, RWJ said:

So important to draft a QB high in this draft to be ready in case Smith has a career ending injury, which I hope doesn't happen of course.  We need to fill out LG position with an excellent FA or draft pick.  We need a Hill type WR and a Hunt type RB to make this OF click with Smith in FA or the draft.  Thus, you need a QB drafted that can sit and learn behind Smith and not some 5th, 6th or 7th round pick either.  As I have stated, if Mayfield falls to #13, you take him all day long.  If he is taken and Allen or one of the other so called blue chip QBs is still available you trade down, pick up extra picks and nab Lauletta or White in the 3rd/4th.  By the way, SIP love your posts.  Keep them coming, my friend. :)

Honestly, if they give up Fuller + a third for Smith, pay him $20M per year, and also draft a QB "high" in this draft I'll be completely baffled. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Honestly, if they give up Fuller + a third for Smith, pay him $20M per year, and also draft a QB "high" in this draft I'll be completely baffled. 

 

Typically I agree with most of your points.  I slightly disagree here. :)  Unless by baffled you are wondering what the FO are thinking as opposed to this being about what you would do. 

 

The Graham Bensinger post above is part of a series, I watched them all.  The best segment I thought was the one from Kelce.  I'll post it below.   

 

In that mix it included one from Andy Reid where he talked about why he went for a QB in the draft -- he in a nice way said Alex isn't getting any younger and when you are a good team you don't have many opportunities to pounce in the draft for a QB. So when you have a shot to do, you do it. 

 

In that same spirit, my take is if this QB draft is as historical as some say and Finlay is right that they really dig Allen and Rudolph -- if Allen by chance falls to your pick in round 1 (unlikely)  or Rudolph in round 2 (maybe so) -- I think you take him. Or any QB they love.  If they indeed love one. 

 

IMO its logical than when you got a 34 year old QB, you aren't just assuming he's your guy for the next 5 years.  Yeah he could end up that way.  But its not how most teams operate.  So whether its this draft or the next or the one after -- I think if one falls in your lap you got to do it.

 

We got Andy Reid pretty making the same point with the exact same player in his house and in his case he had him a year younger.  I get the idea is it feels rushed to take a QB right away.  In a way I agree with that but if one falls in your lap, i think you pounce.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Typically I agree with most of your points.  I slightly disagree here. :)  Unless by baffled you are wondering what the FO are thinking as opposed to this being about what you would do. 

 

The Graham Bensinger post above is part of a series, I watched them all.  The best segment I thought was the one from Kelce.  I'll post it below.   

 

In that mix it included one from Andy Reid where he talked about why he went for a QB in the draft -- he in a nice way said Alex isn't getting any younger and when you are a good team you don't have many opportunities to pounce in the draft for a QB. So when you have a shot to do, you do it. 

 

In that same spirit, my take is if this QB draft is as historical as some say and Finlay is right that they really dig Allen and Rudolph -- if Allen by chance falls to your pick in round 1 (unlikely)  or Rudolph in round 2 (maybe so) -- I think you take him. Or any QB they love.  If they indeed love one. 

 

IMO its logical than when you got a 34 year old QB, you aren't just assuming he's your guy for the next 5 years.  Yeah he could end up that way.  But its not how most teams operate.  So whether its this draft or the next or the one after -- I think if one falls in your lap you got to do it.

 

We got Andy Reid pretty making the same point with the exact same player in his house and in his case he had him a year younger.  I get the idea is it feels rushed to take a QB right away.  In a way I agree with that but if one falls in your lap, i think you pounce.

 

 

 

 

But THIS draft?  I am so exhausted with QB drama.  Taking a QB in the 1st this year takes your lockerroom, fanbase, front office, and team and rips it right down the middle again.  It will fire up the Alex Smith vs (Enter rookie QB name here) as soon as camp breaks.  The questions will come up "how long is Smith's leash" and "Once again Smith is brought in with his backup on his heels."  If Lauletta falls to the 6th and you want to take him.. sure.  Go for it.  We're in the market for a capable 3rd stringer, as well as Colt having 1 year left on his deal... but if we take a QB in the 1st... dysfunction will follow.

 

 

IMHO, if Allen or Mayfield falls... I'm answering every phone call from every GM trying to trade up to get him.... and i'm CALLING Buffalo with the offer of 13 for 21 AND 22.  I honestly believe that AT LEAST 1 of those guys will be there... so there will probably be a big time trade value there... if we can get an additional 1st rounder, or multiple 2nd round picks, I feel that's the best avenue to take.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

But THIS draft?  I am so exhausted with QB drama.  Taking a QB in the 1st this year takes your lockerroom, fanbase, front office, and team and rips it right down the middle again.  It will fire up the Alex Smith vs (Enter rookie QB name here) as soon as camp breaks.  The questions will come up "how long is Smith's leash" and "Once again Smith is brought in with his backup on his heels."  If Lauletta falls to the 6th and you want to take him.. sure.  Go for it.  We're in the market for a capable 3rd stringer, as well as Colt having 1 year left on his deal... but if we take a QB in the 1st... dysfunction will follow.

 

 

IMHO, if Allen or Mayfield falls... I'm answering every phone call from every GM trying to trade up to get him.... and i'm CALLING Buffalo with the offer of 13 for 21 AND 22.  I honestly believe that AT LEAST 1 of those guys will be there... so there will probably be a big time trade value there... if we can get an additional 1st rounder, or multiple 2nd round picks, I feel that's the best avenue to take.... 

 

I just don't see though how its a theory based conversation.  To me the fact that its not a theory based point is my overriding take.  It's about the player and opportunity if it affords itself. 

 

The Eagles trade for Bradford, sign Daniels as a backup for big money -- but go get Wentz.  Granted not in the same year but soon after.  But they actually aggressively traded up for the dude.  That thought was he was a stud and they had to take their shot at him.  It's more or less what Andy Reid said in his interview about why he went after Mahomes.

 

Here I am not talking about trading up or even being aggressive.  I am saying for example if Jay thinks Josh Allen is the next Wentz (or pick your QB) and he falls in your lap at your pick -- you take him. I don't believe QBs grow on trees.  If the dude has to sit on the bench for 2 years so be it, it wouldn't be the first time.  Some thought it was dysfunctional when we took Kirk in the same draft as RG3.  That worked out. 

 

My opinion in short you don't pass up on QBs that you love.  So yeah if it just so happens that a guy you love falls to your pick, you take him.  That's my take on just about any position unless you are loaded already like lets say LT.

 

Sarcasm isn't directed your way, just using it to bring home the point.  Running with that thought, if lets say Jay thinks Allen is the next Wentz.  He passes up on him.  What is he going to say later well yeah Allen is a top 5 QB in the league, he's up there with Wentz but look can you imagine the media chaos if we took the dude the same year we traded for Allen?  Yeah we are 8-8 and the team that took him are in the playoffs -- but at least we got some calm about everything and peace.

 

And I don't mean to harp on J. Allen.  I am just using him as a hypothetical example.

 

Edit:  Cooley ironically talking about it now.  Says he loves Mason Rudolph and he falls later in the draft.   Cooley suggests he'd consider taking him.  Sheehan says no. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just don't see though how its a theory based conversation.  To me the fact that its not a theory based point is my overriding take.  It's about the player and opportunity if it affords itself. 

 

The Eagles trade for Bradford, sign Daniels as a backup for big money -- but go get Wentz.  Granted not in the same year but soon after.  But they actually aggressively traded up for the dude.  That thought was he was a stud and they had to take their shot at him.  It's more or less what Andy Reid said in his interview about why he went after Mahomes.

 

Here I am not talking about trading up or even being aggressive.  I am saying for example if Jay thinks Josh Allen is the next Wentz (or pick your QB) and he falls in your lap at your pick -- you take him. I don't believe QBs grow on trees.  If the dude has to sit on the bench for 2 years so be it, it wouldn't be the first time.  Some thought it was dysfunctional when we took Kirk in the same draft as RG3.  That worked out. 

 

My opinion in short you don't pass up on QBs that you love.  So yeah if it just so happens that a guy you love falls to your pick, you take him.  That's my take on just about any position unless you are loaded already like lets say LT.

 

 

I agree with not passing up on a QB that you're in love with... I also am not sure Allen or Mayfield can be Wentz.  I also don't think this fan base will handle a 1st round pick being a backup for 2 years, and I don't think Snyder has that kind of patience either.  We took Kirk in the 4th the same year we took Griffin, and while he's good... I'd be reserved to say it completely worked out.  The first 3 years him and Griffin were here was absolute turmoil.  A lot of counter-narratives, including at one point having close to a college level rotation of QBs.  

 

The other counter-argument I have is that Philly was able to take Bradford and spin him into a 1st and a 4th round pick.... something we would NOT be able to do with Smith.  Granted, I didn't believe Minn gave that much up so I guess ya never know.  

 

I guess maybe that's something I struggle with.. is I invest too much into the human side of this... but Smith is here, he's a top 15 QB (which Bradford was not), he instantly has the locker room, and he's not breaking the bank.  I would prefer we use that 'guy' who falls to us to leverage MORE talent while we have what would appear to be a level of stability at the position.  Add a difference maker in the 1st and continue to build the team.  Wentz went no. 2 overall..  I don't think anyone at 13 is going to be on that same level... which i guess is your point.. IF there is a guy there that fits that criteria, he'd be hard to pass up... but that's a big if.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Hangman- C_Hanburger

The Hangman- C_Hanburger

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I agree with not passing up on a QB that you're in love with... I also am not sure Allen or Mayfield can be Wentz.  I also don't think this fan base will handle a 1st round pick being a backup for 2 years, and I don't think Snyder has that kind of patience either.  We took Kirk in the 4th the same year we took Griffin, and while he's good... I'd be reserved to say it completely worked out.  The first 3 years him and Griffin were here was absolute turmoil.  A lot of counter-narratives, including at one point having close to a college level rotation of QBs.  

 

The other counter-argument I have is that Philly was able to take Bradford and spin him into a 1st and a 4th round pick.... something we would NOT be able to do with Smith.  Granted, I didn't believe Minn gave that much up so I guess ya never know.  

 

I guess maybe that's something I struggle with.. is I invest too much into the human side of this... but Smith is here, he's a top 15 QB (which Bradford was not), he instantly has the locker room, and he's not breaking the bank.  I would prefer we use that 'guy' who falls to us to leverage MORE talent while we have what would appear to be a level of stability at the position.  Add a difference maker in the 1st and continue to build the team.  Wentz went no. 2 overall..  I don't think anyone at 13 is going to be on that same level... which i guess is your point.. IF there is a guy there that fits that criteria, he'd be hard to pass up... but that's a big if.  

 

BPA at a needed position which includes QB. In fact I think QB is a priority...next to a Speedy, TALL, BIG WR..then RB..in that order but NOT a RB in the 1st round

QB doesn't need to start year 1 at all. I think most fans would EXPECT that

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CutPryorNow

CutPryorNow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just don't see though how its a theory based conversation.  To me the fact that its not a theory based point is my overriding take.  It's about the player and opportunity if it affords itself. 

 

The Eagles trade for Bradford, sign Daniels as a backup for big money -- but go get Wentz.  Granted not in the same year but soon after.  But they actually aggressively traded up for the dude.  That thought was he was a stud and they had to take their shot at him.  It's more or less what Andy Reid said in his interview about why he went after Mahomes.

 

Here I am not talking about trading up or even being aggressive.  I am saying for example if Jay thinks Josh Allen is the next Wentz (or pick your QB) and he falls in your lap at your pick -- you take him. I don't believe QBs grow on trees.  If the dude has to sit on the bench for 2 years so be it, it wouldn't be the first time.  Some thought it was dysfunctional when we took Kirk in the same draft as RG3.  That worked out. 

 

My opinion in short you don't pass up on QBs that you love.  So yeah if it just so happens that a guy you love falls to your pick, you take him.  That's my take on just about any position unless you are loaded already like lets say LT.

 

Sarcasm isn't directed your way, just using it to bring home the point.  Running with that thought, if lets say Jay thinks Allen is the next Wentz.  He passes up on him.  What is he going to say later well yeah Allen is a top 5 QB in the league, he's up there with Wentz but look can you imagine the media chaos if we took the dude the same year we traded for Allen?  Yeah we are 8-8 and the team that took him are in the playoffs -- but at least we got some calm about everything and peace.

 

And I don't mean to harp on J. Allen.  I am just using him as a hypothetical example.

 

Edit:  Cooley ironically talking about it now.  Says he loves Mason Rudolph and he falls later in the draft.   Cooley suggests he'd consider taking him.  Sheehan says no. 

I don't comment much on this fan board, but I do enjoy reading most of the interesting posts from everyone and I usually agree with your view of the situations discussed here. However even though I do understand your argument for not passing on taking a possible franchise QB we really like if one falls to us in the 1st or 2nd round, I was under the assumption that A. Smith has a clause in the contract terms that states his desire for a rookie QB not to be brought in for Smith to help groom for the future and or compete for the starting position. If Smith's wish is true than aren't we inviting more QB controversy at the start of his career here like OVC pointed out above? I personally think it's better for the Redskins to honor their decision if they agreed to not draft a high round QB to groom, than to look like douche bags again and draft a rookie QB to groom or compete immediately for the starting spot. 

   Sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your actions and go forward making the best of it. Maybe I am being too black or white, but if this franchise wants to restore some credibility to the FO than I think this is the course of action needed. However, as you have previously stated, at this point you don't care what Bruce does because maybe his cold/not caring attitude will actually help us out in the end or if it backfires in his face get him fired! Now if that is your underlying argument than I would tend to agree with you...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted

This trade has really clouded the waters, and I think it might reflect an uncertainty in the FO.  

Trading Fuller and a draft pick for Smith lends itself to more of a win now approach, as does (to an extent) moving from Cousins to Smith.  

Extending Smith is a longer term move (moving the window from 1 year to 3 or so years).  

We’ve heard rumors the FO believes the team is close.  

Losing (potentially) Brown, Fuller, Breeland and Galette is a pretty big step backwards for the D, which goes against a win now attitude.  

Drafting a qb early would be a decision towards the long term, but it also invites controversy.  

The FO and Gruden are likely on short leashes.  

 

Some might disagree with the above opinions/implications, but the bottom line is that the FO is in a bit of a bind.  They’re without a lot of cap space while needing to replace (and/or re-sign) some key guys, but they’re also shorter on draft picks.  They may also have a tough decision in terms of looking for a long term qb.  Somehow, they have to balance a .500 roster with needing to find their franchise qb in the near future.  

 

Cherry on top is the looming decisions on contracts extensions for Scherff, Smith and Crowder... not to mention decisions on guys like Norman and Reed.  

 

Gonna be an interesting ride.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

 

BPA at a needed position which includes QB. In fact I think QB is a priority...next to a Speedy, TALL, BIG WR..then RB..in that order but NOT a RB in the 1st round

QB doesn't need to start year 1 at all. I think most fans would EXPECT that

Do you honestly believe that Snyder and Redskins Nation would be able to look at it and say "1st rounder can sit behind Alex Smith for 2 full seasons to learn?" 

 

Come on... If we do this, the first youtube video of said Rookie hitting Ryan Grant for a TD against Holsey would spark the debate about who should be starting, and it would carry on until Smith got released or traded.  It would also take our entire offense and fanbase and split it down the middle.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted
On 2/20/2018 at 9:29 PM, skins island connection said:

 

 It's not set in stone yet. There is a slight chance that no team ends up signing him; at least at the salary he thinks he is worth.

 He's already said he would take less in order to be a winner, but that removes the majority of possibilities. He may end up signing for less with the Jets of all teams, despite what numbers are being thrown around. KC and his agent, with their better-than-thou attitude, are getting brash about his wants and likes and could scasre off a lot of suitors.

I guarantee he gets at least what Garrapolo and Stafford got and likely more than they did. I'd be curious why he would take less from the Jets when they have more money than any team in the league. I guess we'll find out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted

That’s one of the reasons I’d look at runningback and TE early.  Our backs are just ok, and our TE blocking is atrocious.  Sure, we need a gamebreaking receiver too, but that’s much harder to find.  I’d settle for a decent receiver if we can find a back and TE that can help the run game and PA passing.  

 

I would add G to that group, but if our backs struggle and our TEs can’t block... that G can only carry you so far.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Do you honestly believe that Snyder and Redskins Nation would be able to look at it and say "1st rounder can sit behind Alex Smith for 2 full seasons to learn?" 

 

Come on... If we do this, the first youtube video of said Rookie hitting Ryan Grant for a TD against Holsey would spark the debate about who should be starting, and it would carry on until Smith got released or traded.  It would also take our entire offense and fanbase and split it down the middle.  

 

This is my opinion too. We can't reasonably invest what we did to get Smith and then use the 13th pick on someone who will never take the field with him. Giving up a starter, a third, and $20M per year for Smith indicates to me that they will need to add every weapon possible. Otherwise, keep the young CB, the potential contributor, the cap space, and draft a rookie QB. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Do you honestly believe that Snyder and Redskins Nation would be able to look at it and say "1st rounder can sit behind Alex Smith for 2 full seasons to learn?" 

 

Come on... If we do this, the first youtube video of said Rookie hitting Ryan Grant for a TD against Holsey would spark the debate about who should be starting, and it would carry on until Smith got released or traded.  It would also take our entire offense and fanbase and split it down the middle.  

Rodgers sat behind Favre and learned.  Same thing can happen here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
onedrop

onedrop

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

True.

 

To be fair though, Favre had a lot more rope than Smith will ever have as well.

agreed. my point wasn't pertaining to the QBs themselves but rather it is near impossible to compare what the packer organization did to what we do. over and over and over.....which is whatever a sane group wouldn't do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

Albert Breer just asked the same question about the Redskins drafting a QB.  In the context of Mayfield dropping to 13, Breer said its possible.  He cited the Eagles with Bradford and shooting for Wentz anyway.  Bears signing Glennon and then trading up for a QB.  He goes yeah Glennon and Bradford didn't like it but did that matter?  He said a newish trend is to take multiple shots at the well.  He goes the Chiefs moved on from Smith in part because of their lack of success in the playoffs with him.

 

He likes Smith but he said he wouldn't rule out the Redskins taking a QB in the draft depending on how deep is the guaranteed money in Alex's contract.

 

To clarify my position, I am not advocating being aggressive and chase a QB the way the Bears, Chiefs, Eagles did.  Just saying if this draft is all that its cracked up to be for QB and a QB you love just lands in your lap, you IMO take him.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...