The Coaching Free Agent Thread

[goskins10]

9 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

The coaching positions I would go hard at are the following: 

 

1. Find the best, most experienced Special Teams coordinator out there.

Kotwika hasn’t gotten it done in the slightest.

 

2. Find the best most competent WR coach out there. Our WR have underperformed.

 

those two slots would be my main targets.

 

It's amazing how many people continue to completely ignore the facts when talking about STs -

 

This past year STs were not good. At least some of that was due to myriad of injuries which impact STs first. in 2015 STs were the 6th best in the NFL and in 2016 they were 13th with the drop being driven by Hopkins missing a few key kicks. But 2016 we had one of the top punt return teams in the NFL - may have even been #1 ik have not looked it up. So saying he "hasn't gotten it done in the slightest" completely ignores the facts and data.

 

Did they struggle this year? Of course. Crowder developed the fumbles. Punt returns were not very good overall. The kicking game was not bad even producing a KR TD. But again, of all the units impacted by injury, STs is typically the worst since much of your depth plays teams. Once those guys move into starting roles you replace with guys of the street on the practice squad. ! or 2 is one thing. But wholesale losses is another.

 

If STs had been **** in 2015 and 2016 I would agree. But that's just not the truth

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@goskins10 by what metric are you referring to 6th best and 13th best? I’m fine with being wrong, I have not looked it up, just wondering where you got those rankings and what are the rankings regarding? Mine was totally based on my perception which is wrong plenty. 

[Paul Cumberland]

Another one bites the dust...

 

[Reaper Skins]

I read somewhere on bleacher report that Norv Turner got hired as OC for the Panthers?!?

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I know it'll never, ever happen, but Norv Turner.  Terrible head coach but what an amazing play caller

Edit: and that's what I get for not reading through all the posts.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@goskins10 by what metric are you referring to 6th best and 13th best? I’m fine with being wrong, I have not looked it up, just wondering where you got those rankings and what are the rankings regarding? Mine was totally based on my perception which is wrong plenty. 

I'm going to guess here but maybe Pro-Football Focus? 

 

I think that in some ways, ST "stats" are mis-leading.  Way has been an adequate punter, and Hopkins has been ok as a kicker, though somewhat un-reliable in big spots.

 

Have we gotten squat out of the punt return game?  I have no idea what the stats say, my eyes tell me no.  Except this year we had Crowder fumble 2 or 3 of them.  

 

Have we gotten squat out of the kick return game?  Not really, but so many kicks are 

 

3 hours ago, Reaper Skins said:

I read somewhere on bleacher report that Norv Turner got hired as OC for the Panthers?!?

I'm actually really surprised by this whole chain of events.  Shula did a pretty fantastic job coordinating the running game a couple years ago 

 

Norv is pretty good as an OC, and he's really good with the run-game, which I think is why he was attractive to Carolina.  

 

But I'm still surprised. 

 

3 hours ago, Paul Cumberland said:

Another one bites the dust...

 

I might hire Rick to be our run-game coordinator.  So we could then have an OC (who does nothing), a Pass Game Coordinator, a Run Game Coordinator, a HC/Play Caller, an OL Coach/Assistant HC, along with the TE, WR and RB coaches.  

 

That would be very Redskins.  

[skinzplay]

Shula or McCoy to Buffalo. Would be interesting to see what either would be able to do up there. They're still in dire need of a QB.

[thebeermonkey]

We should always be open to hiring the best if they become available. I think we didn't see much from the WRs and Special Teams were very poor. 

[Paul Cumberland]

 

[c slag]

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Reaper Skins said:

I read somewhere on bleacher report that Norv Turner got hired as OC for the Panthers?!?

The Panthers visit FedEx Field next season "Welcome back Norv"

[skinzplay]

4 hours ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

That's an interesting move. I had a feeling he'd get his shot, but not necessarily this off-season. Glad to see that the usual re-treads aren't the only ones getting consideration these days. The Shanahans are VERY high on this guy. If he's not hired by Tennessee and things continue to go south in Denver, don't be surprised if he resurfaces in Colorado.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

That's an interesting move. I had a feeling he'd get his shot, but not necessarily this off-season. Glad to see that the usual re-treads aren't the only ones getting consideration these days. The Shanahans are VERY high on this guy. If he's not hired by Tennessee and things continue to go south in Denver, don't be surprised if he resurfaces in Colorado.

Teams are trying to hit a Home Run, like a McVay. I think they're trying to identify brilliance, and prioritizing that over experience. So they're bringing in young guys, guys who haven't even been a coordinator yet, or not for long. If you can identify that guy, you can get him first, rather than hope a McDaniels or Shanahan choose your team. That's why LaFleur is getting that interview and Brian Flores is rumored to be going to Arizona.

 

Of course, if you're wrong in a hire like that, it could go very badly. It's not exactly the same (age-wise), but it's kind of what we tried with Zorn.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It wasn't but less than a month ago, quite a few folks from here were clamoring for a coach like Mike Tomlin. 

 

If some of the folks in Pittsburgh get their way, he'll be available.  Like I said then and I'll say it again now, Mike Tomlin is provided a near elite roster year to year and underperforms given that.  You just think he's good because his team is always great and when he's aggressive and it works out, it looks great. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

44 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It wasn't but less than a month ago, quite a few folks from here were clamoring for a coach like Mike Tomlin. 

 

If some of the folks in Pittsburgh get their way, he'll be available.  Like I said then and I'll say it again now, Mike Tomlin is provided a near elite roster year to year and underperforms given that.  You just think he's good because his team is always great and when he's aggressive and it works out, it looks great. 

I don't know who was among that "clamor" but Tomlin has never come across as a particularly good coach to me. Pittsburgh should really get the balls to replace him now, while they still have a slight window.

[Paul Cumberland]

45 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't know who was among that "clamor" but Tomlin has never come across as a particularly good coach to me. Pittsburgh should really get the balls to replace him now, while they still have a slight window.

 

It's minority ownership that was the clamor..  We heard the same thing about ours in regards to the Kirk contract situation about a month ago where the thinking was it could end up getting Bruce fired.  In the end, for both situations, I don't expect anything to happen.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Paul Cumberland said:

 

It's minority ownership that was the clamor..  We heard the same thing about ours in regards to the Kirk contract situation about a month ago where the thinking was it could end up getting Bruce fired.  In the end, for both situations, I don't expect anything to happen.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with my comment. He said there was a clamor here for someone like Tomlin and I was saying I would have disagreed at the time if I were in tat discussion.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I can't quite remember the thread but it wasn't long ago, near the end of the season.  There was some Jay bashing going on and a sidebar conversation into needing a winner like Tomlin.  I was kind of on an island explaining that most Steeler fans I know think he's an awful head coach.

[Paul Cumberland]

12 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That doesn't have anything to do with my comment. He said there was a clamor here for someone like Tomlin and I was saying I would have disagreed at the time if I were in tat discussion.

 

I see that now.  missed the part that it was 'from here'..  just assumed it was from what was on twitter earlier today.  i have nothing to add to that particular discussion other than i'm good with who we have at the moment

[skinzplay]

Tomlin will most certainly not be fired, no matter what these malcontents among the minority ownership are leaking to the media. I mean.....holy hell......you know you've been spoiled by success when multiple, consecutive seasons of winning isn't good enough. Teams aren't going to win the damn Super Bowl every year. Nobody called for Marv's head when the Bills lost three SB's in a row; same for Dan Reeves, who lost 3 SB's in 4 years. It's highly unusual for a minority faction among the ownership -- a group with no say whatsoever in team management or decision-making -- to engage in such an organized, concerted effort to undermine the HC of the team. I happen to be among the people who strongly believe that Russ should've been hired for that job when Cowher retired, but I still have a lot of respect for the tradition of winning that Tomlin has continued in Pittsburgh, whose oft-insufferable fans seem to think that they can somehow do better now........with whom, exactly? Marty Mornhinweg is available. Maybe they can negotiate a trade with the Browns for ol' Hue. It's laughable. You aren't gonna go to the SB and win it every year. Be happy with a team that's a consistent winner, and that has a winning culture. We sure as hell would love to have that here. I don't need a Lombardi every year. Give me a team that plays hard all season, every season; a coach who routinely makes sound decisions and puts his players (the right players who should be on the field) in the position to succeed..............geez. Send our owner up to the Keystone State and see what kind of organization, what kind of ethos will infest that place in short order. Steeler fans (and impetuous minority owners) should be thankful for what they have and for what they've had.

[Rufus T Firefly]

12 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Tomlin will most certainly not be fired, no matter what these malcontents among the minority ownership are leaking to the media. I mean.....holy hell......you know you've been spoiled by success when multiple, consecutive seasons of winning isn't good enough. 

The problem with this kind of argument is it ignores the basic reality of the NFL- talent wins out. The Coach is supposed to get the most of that talent. W-L totals alone don't tell that story. If I'm given 15 win talent and get 12 wins out of them, I am not a great coach. But too many would do what you're doing here and saying "What, is 12 wins not good enough?"

 

Tomlin isn't a very good coach. Never has been. He's been given the best talent in the league and done just OK with it.  I don't need anymore proof than a decade of watching him lose to a less talented New England team while Tomlin acts out Einstein's definition of insanity. Gee, next time just sit back in that zone and watch Brady carve you up again, maybe it'll finally work.

 

And when you, as a coach, openly come out and talk as if you're looking ahead of an opponent, and then you're team comes out flat and loses to said opponent, you really deserve to be fired for that alone.

[skinzplay]

Can't necessarily argue with you on that, chief. But if I'm given 15-win talent and only win 12 games, maybe I'm losing to teams with 16-win talent. Even the greatest of coaches are not infallible. They lay some rotten eggs at times, or are seemingly out-coached by someone that most would deem an inferior peer. Some Sundays, you're just gonna get beat, no matter who you are. I wouldn't try to make the argument that Tomlin is a great HC. I don't think he is. But I don't think the Steelers would have had the kind of success they've had during his tenure if, say, Hue Jackson, Jay Gruden, and others of that ilk were standing on the sidelines on Sundays. Imagine the boys of Pi Tampa Phi up there in Pittsburgh -- Jay Gruden as HC, Joe Barry as DC.......that terrible towel would have explicitly new meaning. So there is something to be said about being a competent coach, even if you're not a great one.

 

Agree 100% on those bone-headed comments from Tomlin and his players whom he should've told to zip it about teams they weren't playing in the coming week, including comments about the team that inflates balls and records practices, but is somehow supposed to be viewed in the same light as 80s-era squads like Gibb's Skins or Walsh's 49ers who got to Super Bowls legitimately and won legitimately.

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 hours ago, skinzplay said:

 But I don't think the Steelers would have had the kind of success they've had during his tenure if, say, Hue Jackson, Jay Gruden, and others of that ilk were standing on the sidelines on Sundays. Imagine the boys of Pi Tampa Phi up there in Pittsburgh -- Jay Gruden as HC, Joe Barry as DC.......that terrible towel would have explicitly new meaning. So there is something to be said about being a competent coach, even if you're not a great one.

 

I don't know why I would assume that. I see Tomlin do the exact same kinds of things Gruden has done- bad clock management, dumb decisions, lack of in-game adjustments, teams coming out flat, lack of discipline, lack of creativity. Tomlin just does those things with the league's best roster. I doubt Tomlin does any better than 7-9 with the '17 Redskins.

 

I frankly don't think any of the 32 Coaches in the NFL last year would have failed to put up a winning record with Pittsburgh.

[skinzplay]

I think we disagree only slightly. I just think that Tomlin is the kind of coach who won't set your franchise back; he's going to keep things steady, maintain the winning tradition with the help of a strong management team who keeps the team stocked with talent (talent he does help to scout and select). I don't see him as the kind of coach who could do what Couglin did in Jacksonville (round 1), or what Boy Wonder did this year with the Rams.I honestly don't think his contract will be renewed in 2020, in any event. Maybe Russ will get another shot.

[pjfootballer]

Grimm is 58. Doubt he gets another shot. Others that have been hired as HCs past that age have been HCs before. He won’t get his first shot at nearly 60. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

12 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I think we disagree only slightly. I just think that Tomlin is the kind of coach who won't set your franchise back; he's going to keep things steady, maintain the winning tradition with the help of a strong management team who keeps the team stocked with talent (talent he does help to scout and select). I don't see him as the kind of coach who could do what Couglin did in Jacksonville (round 1), or what Boy Wonder did this year with the Rams.I honestly don't think his contract will be renewed in 2020, in any event. Maybe Russ will get another shot.

The problem is, by the time they let him go, their window will have closed. A good coach probably would have won them a couple more titles by now.

 

This is the flip side to the "continuity" argument. You stick with something for the sake of it and fail to move forward rather than make the change you should have made which could put you over the top.