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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)


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23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe. The new trend specific to Kirk is do teams let the QBs hit the FA market in their prime?

 

Ex-agent Joel Corry says no, Kirk will be a unicorn and the Redskins set the template for how not to handle a qb contract. Other teams will learn from their example, etc.

 

I guess we will see one way or another down the road. If for example Bell does hit FA at 27 next year. Thats not unusual.  RBs come and go. Even the good ones. Not so for QB.

 

This is once again completely ignoring what happened pre 2015.

 

A better question is how many QB's will hit the FA market in their prime after sitting behind another Quarterback drafted in the same draft, who the franchise gave up 3 firsts and a second for, the same guy who gave the franchise one of the most dynamic and memorable seasons in team history, and once he got his chance after the other QB flops has stretches of total incompetency at the position, who has a good stretch of 8 games before his rookie contract is up?

 

My guess is none. Because that situation will probably never happen for another team. And if it does it will be a very very very long time.

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57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so if RBs have long careers like Qbs as opposed to typically being done at 30.   Also Steelers are saying they are working a LTD.  

 

But yeah if the Steelers don't work a LTD and then lose Bell next year for a comp pick, they are dumb IMO.   They'd have to play this out to the hilt though Bruce style to get nothing for him.  They'd have to trade for some big name RB before FA so they have no leverage with the tag so they can't get anything for him. 

 

They are also a team in a championship window.  Whether or not they handled it the correct way, it's at least defensible for a team to hold onto their (arguably) best player for a couple of years where they're in serious contention for the Super Bowl. 

 

It should also be pointed out that they offered him 14 mil per year, where the next highest paid RB gets 8.25 mil per.

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2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

You get compensatory draft picks to offset the loss of free agents to other teams. You lose the right to get compensatory draft picks when you lose a player to another team and you sign other teams players. 

 

Think about last year. 

 

Redskins lost two WR's that would have netted them 2 additional fourth round draft picks based on the contracts those receivers signed 

 

Redskins signed Zach Brown, Brian Quick, Terrelle Pryor Sr, Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, and D.J. Swearinger

 

Redskins compensatory draft picks in 2018 - None

 

Why? Because they choose the option of signing Zach Brown, Brian Quick, Terrelle Pryor Sr, Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, and D.J. Swearinger over having two additional fourth round draft picks. They lost Desean, Pierre, and two fourth round picks. 

 

 

It's somewhat sad to think about, but is true. Some thought Jackson might have even netted a 3rd rounder. And the team did lose other free agents. They could have signed just Swearinger and Brown and still likely netted 2 4ths.

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31 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

My guess is none. Because that situation will probably never happen for another team. And if it does it will be a very very very long time.

 

You got a lot of guys who have been around the block, Corry being an agent for over 10 years, among others -- along with scuttle butt from beat guys talking about what personnel guys have said to them off the record.   And it just about always with a rare exception centers on how the FO didn't handle this just poorly-- they handled it epically bad.  I don't need to hear it from them to have that same conclusion.  

 

If you feel otherwise, that's cool.  But its clearly a minority opinion.  I am in the minority myself on some points, too.  I get it.  To each their own.  But on my end, its not about group think that's driving me.   I am seeing how the Eagles might end up with a first rounder for Foles.  Same team fleeced us for a 2nd and 4th rounder for McNabb.  Got a 1st and 4th for Bradford.    Got a 2nd for Kolb and a player.  And we got a late 3rd in 2019 for the hottest FA on the market. While having to give up good value for a replacement.  Geez.  

 

I can easily answer your post and go back in detail about every misstep in my book along the way as to the contract.  But I don't feel like it since I've probably posted the chronology on this about 300 times.  :(

 

I've probably listened to 300 radio segments on the Kirk contract.  That's one thing I am not going miss with him gone.  But I am more focused right now on FA. 

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24 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

A better question is how many QB's will hit the FA market in their prime after sitting behind another Quarterback drafted in the same draft, who the franchise gave up 3 firsts and a second for, the same guy who gave the franchise one of the most dynamic and memorable seasons in team history, and once he got his chance after the other QB flops has stretches of total incompetency at the position, who has a good stretch of 8 games before his rookie contract is up?

 

I think many will roll their eyes at this but it's a good point and its something that doesn't get discussed enough.

 

The reason no QB hits free agency during their peak is that typically they are drafted, they start year 1, they use year one to get established and then year 2 and 3 is where you find out of the QB is a keeper.

 

We lost the first 3 years of watching Kirk develop and the staff and FO building rapport with him due to RG3.

 

The failed RG3 trade has cost us so much, not just Kirk and draft picks but IMO the loss of Fuller is related as well.

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32 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

 

It's somewhat sad to think about, but is true. Some thought Jackson might have even netted a 3rd rounder. And the team did lose other free agents. They could have signed just Swearinger and Brown and still likely netted 2 4ths.

 

I am not hung up on comp picks.  For example heck yeah I'd prefer (former 2nd round pick) Paul Richardson versus a bottom 3rd round pick in 2019. 

 

However, if there is something to all these FAs likely leaving especially Breeland, Murphy, Galette, Long -- let alone Z. Brown if he's let loose -- who all might command decent money on the market  -- we'd really have to go nuts in FA to not come out of it with comp picks.

 

But to the point about McGee and McClain -- yeah I hate signing Jags or guys who are maybe just a small peg higher than a JAG in FA.  In that case, yeah losing comp picks doesn't make sense.

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2 hours ago, Audible_Red40 said:

 

It's not a fact.  You can't lose something you don't have.  That 3rd round pick is not something we have. 

 

Good grief, are you seriously doubting the idea of compensatory picks that has been around for the past 24 years? Look I realize that this may shock you since the Redskins haven't gotten one of them since 2011 but this is not rocket science. You can pretend that its new and that you don't understand but that's foolish. 

 

Just because we don't have a third round pick for losing Cousins, we all know that we are going to get one for him...IF we follow the rules to get one. 

 

IF they don't follow the rules then sure they could get nothing. That's true but acting like its a question of IF they follow the rules will they get anything is stupid. While your wishing for your shinny new second round bust of a WR like Paul Richardson let me please rain on that parade while I can and educate you that this move will have very strong negative effects on the franchise in terms of compensatory picks. It comes with a price. 

 

You can't have your free picks and the players you lust after. I don't make the rules, but they are the rules. If you choose to pretend the rules don't exist that is on you. If the team would learn to exist within the rules for one they stand to benefit greatly but we both know if there is a dollar in the register that Bruce won't hesitate to spend it. Bruce Allen is such a moron. 

 

 

Quote

If the Redskins do nothing, they're bigger idiots then we thought.

 

Also, you don't know what 10 million per year "may" net you.  It might only net you a 4th rounder in 2019. Case in point, $9 million"netted" you a 3rd rounder in 2017, but $9 million "netted" you a 4th rounder in 2018. (In the equation)

 

Cap goes up, contract value goes up, compensation goes down.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  If you go into free agency with your approach of ------ hey we will lose this guy, so let's not sign any free agents, and we'll get compensation for him -------- you'll be out of a job faster than you can compute the gain versus the loss of every player for the top 32 compensatory picks

 

Do you also say that the Eagles won the Superbowl last season with a mixture of player additions that included many ways to build its team? In fact the Eagles are a good example on how to improve an NFL quickly without relying on just the FA concept. 25 players on the Eagles Superbowl team weren't on the team before 2017 who arrived via walk ons, cut player additions, etc. Free Agency can be useful if the time is right. Ask the Packers they rarely use it unless the time is right. They never act like its Christmas come Free Agency like Redskins do. And we wonder why its never our time to shine

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2 hours ago, steve09ru said:

They can't lose what they don't have.  Also, you are just using a single player when in reality, the potential to not receive a 3rd is going to net much more than 1 single player.  So your 3rd item should be "Add players A,B,C,D,etc."

 

Since when did we say "you can't count on what you don't have" and it mean a damn thing? Like when I was in the military I always knew that check was hitting the first and the fifteenth. Hell even Bone Thugs sang a song about this event. Anyway just because I didn't have the money on the 6th of the month didn't mean I never expected it to show up on the 15th. Like this is some goofy loop hole some of you have fallen into....don't count on what you don't have. Yeah right lol

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:
 shawn holmes liked

#Redskins agree to multi-year deal with Deshazor Everett. Makes sense for both parties, Everett was a restricted free agent.

0 replies6 retweets14 likes
 

 

Hell ya!!! Great news :)

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21 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I think many will roll their eyes at this but it's a good point and its something that doesn't get discussed enough.

 

The reason no QB hits free agency during their peak is that typically they are drafted, they start year 1, they use year one to get established and then year 2 and 3 is where you find out of the QB is a keeper.

 

We lost the first 3 years of watching Kirk develop and the staff and FO building rapport with him due to RG3.

 

The failed RG3 trade has cost us so much, not just Kirk and draft picks but IMO the loss of Fuller is related as well.

Yeah it's a HUGE part of the equation on why the situation played out the way it did, but unfortunately many dismiss it as if it has no bearing.

 

Dan/Bruce were behind the Griffin trade and held onto hope he'd return to form for far too long. So in that sense, it was their incompetency that pushed us to this point. Just not in the way everyone thinks.

 

@Skinsinparadise

Don't need to listen to a single radio segment or read Joel Corry's opinion to know that this is a totally unprecedented situation that no other team in the history of the NFL has encountered. Acting as if Kirk had a normal franchise QB career trajectory who we just let waltz into free agency is a gross misrepresentation of what happened.

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:
 shawn holmes liked

#Redskins agree to multi-year deal with Deshazor Everett. Makes sense for both parties, Everett was a restricted free agent.

0 replies6 retweets14 likes
 

He finished 2016 well, but unfortunately didn't take the step forward that I hoped to see last year. Regardless, if it's 3M/yr or so, good get. Still young with potential and will be in the fight for the starting job.

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2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I keep looking through the FA receivers out there and continue to be very underwhelmed. Landry simply looks a class apart to me. My God he'd be ideal for Smith. 

 

Word. And since I seem to be on the compensatory pick kick today....if they trade for players they don't count against a teams compensatory picks! Love to flip a pick for Jarvis. Trades rock

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe. The new trend specific to Kirk is do teams let the QBs hit the FA market in their prime?

 

Ex-agent Joel Corry says no, Kirk will be a unicorn and the Redskins set the template for how not to handle a qb contract. Other teams will learn from their example, etc.

 

Depends on the QB.

 

You have your high drafted QBs who become the face of the franchise from day one, they aren't hitting free agency ever even if they have issues - Derek Carr, Matt Staffords, Matt Ryans, etc. 

 

You have your QBs who have a lot of success early like Kapernick, Russell Wilson, they get second contracts because it doesn't make sense to let them go. 

 

Then you QBs who are between average to good like the Kirk Cousins, Jay Cutlers, Teddy Bridgewaters who are kept only if they are cheap. If they want too much money teams let them go. 

 

I think this will become the rule going forward

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

This is once again completely ignoring what happened pre 2015.

 

A better question is how many QB's will hit the FA market in their prime after sitting behind another Quarterback drafted in the same draft, who the franchise gave up 3 firsts and a second for, the same guy who gave the franchise one of the most dynamic and memorable seasons in team history, and once he got his chance after the other QB flops has stretches of total incompetency at the position, who has a good stretch of 8 games before his rookie contract is up?

 

My guess is none. Because that situation will probably never happen for another team. And if it does it will be a very very very long time.

 

Who cares what happened in 2015? Like do you sit here in March of 2018 and tell yourself damn it I didn't invest in BitCoin in 2015 when I should have and kick your own ass because you don't know the future? 

 

No one knew what the outcome would be in 2018 way back in 2015 with Kirk. 2015/2016 etc only serves as a learning lesson going forward. Crying about not know what we didn't know then what we know now is silly. Learn from it and move on

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20 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

Don't need to listen to a single radio segment or read Joel Corry's opinion to know that this is a totally unprecedented situation that no other team in the history of the NFL has encountered. Acting as if Kirk had a normal franchise QB career trajectory who we just let waltz into free agency is a gross misrepresentation of what happened.

 

I have posted on the Kirk contract for a good 2 years probably i am at least top 5 in volumes of posts on it.  I've explained my position in detail plenty.  To me having Bruce's back on the Kirk contract while saying that's not the right bone to pick with him, there are other things where he deserves it but not this.  If I recall that is your position?  If not, correct me if i am wrong. 

 

To my point of view its like saying hey I got as much problems with Vampires as anyone but I don't have issues with the biting thing.  To me the Kirk contract is Bruce's hallmark dysfunctional move.   I am not saying people can't think otherwise.  I am just saying I am 50,000 miles away from your point of view on this.  So I'd rather agree to disagree. :)

 

And for the minority of people that have had Bruce's back on this.  I commend them for going against the tide.  It's not easy.  But outside of that I am not even on the same planet on this point.   Bruce's screw up on the contract IMO (and the opinion of plenty of others) is one for the ages.

 

Having said that, I do think if they have a big year it will erase the stigma of the whole thing some.  And heck i am rooting hard for that to happen.  I am actually furiously rooting for them to surround Alex with weapons.  It's practically a mantra for me on this thread.   I'd love it if some of the people who have Bruce's back run and I told you so thread in January as we play in the Superbowl.    

9 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Then you QBs who are between average to good like the Kirk Cousins, Jay Cutlers, Teddy Bridgewaters who are kept only if they are cheap. If they want too much money teams let them go. 

 

I'd agree with your point 100% if Kirk = Cutler & Bridgewater.  But IMO it ain't so.  And clearly it isn't the take of the league considering your point is being tested in real time right now.  

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29 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

Like do you sit here in March of 2018 and tell yourself damn it I didn't invest in BitCoin in 2015 when I should have and kick your own ass because you don't know the future? 

I do this all the time, still wish I bought more shares of Citi stock in Mar 2009, it was a no-brainer at just over $14 a share (it was actually lower than that at one point).

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Word. And since I seem to be on the compensatory pick kick today....if they trade for players they don't count against a teams compensatory picks! Love to flip a pick for Jarvis. Trades rock

I didn't mean to stir the pot when I asked about the mysterious comp pick formula earlier. Wasn't planning on making a day out of the discussion, but lots of good talk.

 

It's just different this year being that Kirk could fetch a 3rd and we know we know that's on the line... wouldn't it be classic Redskins to piss it away by overpaying Richardson types (not trying to call you out @Skinsinparadise, he's just the perfect example of a hyped up, unproven guy who will get big money because the market is dry at his position) and end up with zero return. I'll be paying attention and rooting harder than ever for our exiting FAs to get paid big. 

 

If we lost Kirk's comp pick and cancelled out the potential picks of Bree and Brown, I'd be fine if we landed some studs. But, i don't see any FAs in this whole class who fit that description.

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It's like being on the board of Amazon with inside knowledge of the stock versus just being some random investor from the outside.  But you forgo the stock options, saying you want to see more because you aren't sure if you want to make a major investment for the long haul.  Then you finally go years later hey, 1536 is too rich to buy that stock -- let the speculators buy on the high.  And we clap him on the back -- focused on the 1536 value of the stock now. 

 

Scot has said multiple times one of the key things for a GM is to know how to value your own assets and fast.  That's a key part of the job.

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's like being on the board of Amazon with inside knowledge of the stock versus just being some random investor from the outside.  But you forgo the stock options, saying you want to see more because you aren't sure if you want to make a major investment for the long haul.  Then you finally go years later hey, 1536 is too rich to buy that stock -- let the speculators buy on the high.  And we clap him on the back -- focused on the 1536 value of the stock now. 

 

Scot has said multiple times one of the key things for a GM is to know how to value your own assets and fast.  That's a key part of the job.

Goddam that's dead on the money. Earlier I also typed up a stock analogy, but failed. Well done.

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47 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

It's just different this year being that Kirk could fetch a 3rd and we know we know that's on the line... wouldn't it be classic Redskins to piss it away by overpaying Richardson types (not trying to call you out @Skinsinparadise, he's just the perfect example of a hyped up, unproven guy who will get big money because the market is dry at his position) and end up with zero return. I'll be paying attention and rooting harder than ever for our exiting FAs to get paid big. 

 

 

I agree I wouldn't overpay for a guy that the team sees as just a guy.  But I like Richardson.  He was a high pick for a reason.  As a deep threat, thirteen-20 plus yards gains, three 40 plus yard gains, 16 YPA -- is good.  He's young, too.   Injuries plagued him early like Doctson.  Last year he started to emerge.  He has a decent catch percentage especially for a high YPA guy-deep threat.    4.40 speed.  Love the fact that he's good on the move during QB scrambles -- that's something needed here with Alex.

 

I guess I am becoming the Paul Richardson guy on this thread so I'll own it. :ols: Last off season, I was a big Zach Brown guy before he ended up here.  So maybe a good omen.  Am i saying Richardson is this stud #1.  Nope.  But can he play on the outside and stretch the field and has good hands.  Yep.  I doubt he's getting #1 receiver money anyway.  I'd guess somewhere in the 7 million range based on what I am reading.  A #2 guy.  I don't think there is a genuine #1 WR in FA aside from Allen Robinson if he turns back into the 2015 version of himself.   Here goes. 

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/11/28/16708956/make-the-case-to-re-sign-jimmy-graham-or-paul-richardson-seahawks-free-agency-contract-decisions

In 2017, Richardson has made the transformation from a deep-threat receiver with injury problems to a legitimate starting outside receiver. He’s winning on a variety of routes - becoming a run after catch threat on digs over the deep middle that the Seahawks love so much - and has a great understanding of the scramble drill with Wilson. His big play ability remains a real threat, but he’s added a technical side to his game that was missing. In 11 games this season, Richardson has caught 35 balls for 584 yards and five touchdowns - all career highs - ranking ninth in DYAR among wide receivers, and perhaps most importantly he has already played more snaps than in any of his previous three seasons. Like Graham, Richardson is having his best season in Seattle at exactly the right time, making the question of cost an interesting one.

 

https://12thmanrising.com/2017/06/04/big-hopes-2017-paul-richardson-great-seahawks/

Lockett’s injury may have been bad for Seattle, but it was good to Richardson. Once his snap count increased and he got more targets, Richardson became the weapon Seattle had hoped he would be when they drafted him. In the final two weeks of the regular season, Richardson caught eight passes in 12 targets for 82 yards and a touchdown.

Richardson was truly special in the playoffs, though, including possibly having the best reception of the season in the NFL.

 

https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahawks/article/The-cost-of-Seahawks-keeping-Paul-Richardson-12505043.php

From a talent perspective, Richardson is probably Seattle's second-best receiver. Plus he's the best in his position group at high-pointing deep balls. For examples of that, check his 38-yard touchdown catch against the Giants in week seven, or his 48-yard catch against Houston to set up the game-winning score in week eight.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd agree with your point 100% if Kirk = Cutler & Bridgewater.  But IMO it ain't so.  And clearly it isn't the take of the league considering your point is being tested in real time right now.  

 

So we are clear I mentioned Cutler as in Jay Cutler in 2006 not the Cutty in 2018. Compare the two at that point and the similarities are eerie. Both threw for yards, lots of them, both are gonna get a massive second contract, one guy didn’t work out and the other who knows. I will say if Kirk goes to the Jets they likely end the same. That’s why I’ve been saying for months book Kirk to the Vikings, best landing spot period

 

Anyway

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/06/pfts-free-agent-top-100/

 

Yea I know the majority of you hate PFT but they do show the Skins some love. Six of the top 100 free agents are our own players. So like why aren’t we signing these guys and playing the compensatory pick game this year exactly? Like seriously if there ever was a year to stay away from the leagues other guys and sign our own players this is the year!

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree I wouldn't overpay for a guy that the team sees as just a guy.  But I like Richardson.  He was a high pick for a reason.  As a deep threat, thirteen-20 plus yards gains, three 40 plus yard gains, 16 YPA -- is good.  He's young, too.   Injuries plagued him early like Doctson.  Last year he started to emerge.  He has a decent catch percentage especially for a high YPA guy-deep threat.    4.40 speed.  Love the fact that he's good on the move during QB scrambles -- that's something needed here with Alex.

 

I guess I am becoming the Paul Richardson guy on this thread so I'll own it. :ols: Last off season, I was a big Zach Brown guy before he ended up here.  So maybe a good omen.  Am i saying Richardson is this stud #1.  Nope.  But can he play on the outside and stretch the field and has good hands.  Yep.  I doubt he's getting #1 receiver money anyway.  I'd guess somewhere in the 7 million range based on what I am reading.  A #2 guy.  I don't think there is a genuine #1 WR in FA aside from Allen Robinson if he turns back into the 2015 version of himself.   Here goes. 

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/11/28/16708956/make-the-case-to-re-sign-jimmy-graham-or-paul-richardson-seahawks-free-agency-contract-decisions

In 2017, Richardson has made the transformation from a deep-threat receiver with injury problems to a legitimate starting outside receiver. He’s winning on a variety of routes - becoming a run after catch threat on digs over the deep middle that the Seahawks love so much - and has a great understanding of the scramble drill with Wilson. His big play ability remains a real threat, but he’s added a technical side to his game that was missing. In 11 games this season, Richardson has caught 35 balls for 584 yards and five touchdowns - all career highs - ranking ninth in DYAR among wide receivers, and perhaps most importantly he has already played more snaps than in any of his previous three seasons. Like Graham, Richardson is having his best season in Seattle at exactly the right time, making the question of cost an interesting one.

 

https://12thmanrising.com/2017/06/04/big-hopes-2017-paul-richardson-great-seahawks/

Lockett’s injury may have been bad for Seattle, but it was good to Richardson. Once his snap count increased and he got more targets, Richardson became the weapon Seattle had hoped he would be when they drafted him. In the final two weeks of the regular season, Richardson caught eight passes in 12 targets for 82 yards and a touchdown.

Richardson was truly special in the playoffs, though, including possibly having the best reception of the season in the NFL.

 

https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahawks/article/The-cost-of-Seahawks-keeping-Paul-Richardson-12505043.php

From a talent perspective, Richardson is probably Seattle's second-best receiver. Plus he's the best in his position group at high-pointing deep balls. For examples of that, check his 38-yard touchdown catch against the Giants in week seven, or his 48-yard catch against Houston to set up the game-winning score in week eight.

 

Hahah well that post makes it official- you are the Paul Richardson guy!

 

At $7M/yr, I may be a buyer, there's a lot to like and plenty of potential. 

 

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