Redskins Cardinals Post Game Assessments

[The Slamming Butcher]

12 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I would happily root for the Washington Road Apples if it meant Snyder sold the team.

 

Understood. 

 

But not everyone feels the same.

[Thinking Skins]

I also want to say that hopefully we're seeing growth in Lanier in a way that we saw in Matt I last year, and also in Chris Baker a few years ago. The possibility of those three (and maybe a rookie) next year along the DL really makes me feel better. Hopefully we're not looking at Hood play any role and the Mcs only playing a reserve role. 

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Effort was better today. Play calling was suspect. 

1

 

What was suspect about the play calling?  What plays can you run with 2 guys from the bus station playing running back and 4 out of 5 starting OL out?  I think the deep drop passing game is off the table.  Probably a bunch of running plays can't be used either with so many reserves playing up front.  How much of the playbook will the new backs know?   I am not sure what you are thinking about but I think the offensive coaches did a good job.  How does a team manage to win with 4 OL out and guys from the bus station playing running back?  Somehow the Skins managed to move the ball enough to score 17 and win.  I would give credit to the defense for the win since they kept the Cardinals out of the end zone but how many stops did the defense really get, the third-down defense was painful to watch.  The defense is depleted also so I am sure that played into it.

[bobandweave]

1 hour ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

You never, Ever, EVER play to lose.

 

Teams "tanking a season" is a ridiculous myth, and I wish folks would  stop spreading it.

 

Key word “season” I would agree with you. Key word being “game” and I would say your not paying attention.

 

Just google last game of the 2014 Tampa Bay season and read up on what they did in the second half of that game and then tell me that what they did wasn’t tanking.

 

Teams tank in other sports just like they do in the NFL saying they don’t isn’t an accurate statement. Not doing what is best for a team’s future is irresponsible. I don’t get why some fans of the NFL struggle to admit that losing games can be better for a team then winning them in the right situation or have a problem with it

[SkinsGuy]

1 minute ago, bobandweave said:

 

Key word “season” I would agree with you. Key word being “game” and I would say your not paying attention.

 

Just google last game of the 2014 Tampa Bay season and read up on what they did in the second half of that game and then tell me that what they did wasn’t tanking.

 

Teams tank in other sports just like they do in the NFL saying they don’t isn’t an accurate statement. Not doing what is best for a team’s future is irresponsible. I don’t get why some fans of the NFL struggle to admit that losing games can be better for a team then winning them in the right situation or have a problem with it

 

No, I don't believe that teams tank a game or a season.

 

You know how many people would have to be involved for a WHOLE team to tank a game?

 

If you want to live under the delusion that teams intentionally lose games, multiple games a season just to get a nicer draft pick, you live with it.

 

I don't buy it. There is just too much pride and ego in the NFL.

[bobandweave]

Just now, SkinsGuy said:

 

No, I don't believe that teams tank a game or a season.

 

You know how many people would have to be involved for a WHOLE team to tank a game?

 

If you want to live under the delusion that teams intentionally lose games, multiple games a season just to get a nicer draft pick, you live with it.

 

I don't buy it. There is just too much pride and ego in the NFL.

 

Accusing me of being delusional in this topic is silly. 

 

Like I said in my post I do think teams tank in other sports and the NFL and I do not understand why some fans have such a difficult time with accepting this concept.

 

Clearly you are one of those people and this will be my last post on this subject and you can have the last word here. I’m not into arguing with people when they are wrong so let me explain what I referred to and I won’t reply again: from the NFL.com website

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451287/article/did-buccaneers-tank-to-secure-top-pick-in-2015-nfl-draft

 

situation was the last game of the season, Tampa bay with a loss secured the first overall draft pick that next season. At halftime the Bucs were up by multiple TDs.

 

In a game they had nothing to gain by winning they came out at halftime and benched half of the starters on offense including the QB, RB, two 1000 yard wide receivers, and three of its starting offensive linemen besides multiple defensive players and went on to lose the game. With a win the Bucs would not have had the first pick the Titans would have. So they ensured that they lost the game and were very happy when the game ended

 

That’s tanking in a nutshell and just happened two seasons ago. Tanking isn’t some conspiracy theory with that going on in the league it’s a real thing. And it happens with draft pick consideration as the reason. 

[Idaho fan]

Post game assessment.  I watched but it’s not the same when there is nothing to play for (other than lose for a better draft pick).  I sat wondering if we peaked year before last.  I realized I didn’t care much about football this year  At least since the loss to the Saints anyway.  My assessment is that it’s the same ole same.  

[88Comrade2000]

Yey, we won. This season ended last week, once we were eliminated.

 

If you are satisfied with the front office, coach, lack of having our QB signed to a LTD; then the win is fine.  

These players are going to know what it's like to win.  It was injuries that derailed 2017. Keep on believing

that. In 2 years most of these players won't be here, as the team starts over again. 2018 or 2019; whenever 

Kirk leaves; this team is going to fall off the map. Then Dan will start over and the new guys will get rid of

many of the current players.

 

Dan & Bruce don't don't want Cousins but for now, he's the only option they have. Next year, that could change.

Definitely, in 2019.  This team will not give the LTD that Cousins wants.  It doesn't matter if Cousins would like

to stay here, the owner and his lacky really don't want him.  Think, I am wrong that? Tell, me what other organization

would allow a younger starting QB to be unsigned long term?

 

This team has no real capable front office.  You think Bruce is good at picking players?  You trust Doug Williams, who's

never been a GM before?   We will find out, what really happened with Scott in that hearing tomorrow.  This team has

a lousy front office.

 

Our head is mediocre.  in his 4 years, he has proven himself to be just that. Those of you, who think next year; he will

suddenly rise and this team will flourish; are fooling themselves.

 

So, winning out really doesn't help this team. All, it does it delays the necessary changes. Finishing 8-8 or even 7-9

and they will just chuck the season to injuries and not make the necessary changes.

 

I know many think this team will be on the upward trajectory next year and and the one after that.  No it won't. A Gruden

coached team isn't going to starting becoming a consistent contender. What you have seen the last 3 years, is what you

will continue get from Gruden.  Who knows what players our pathetic front office will get. I expect more of the same.

I also expect alot of these players won't be here long term; as that inevitable change eventually happens. The next guys

will want their own players.

 

I rather us lose out the rest of the way and hopefully, that will spark Dan to make some changes now.  Of course, we will be doing 

this again in another 4-5 years but I'm ready for a new cycle. I don't want to wait one or 2 years for that inevitable change. I prefer it

happen in 2018.

 

I used to hold the position of wanting the team to win every game possible.  Now, I don't. A higher draft choice would be nice. For me, they main reason I prefer us to not win the remaining games; is so that convinces Dan to make the needed changes now. Instead of waiting a year or two; where he will have no choice but to make a change.

[SkinsGuy]

27 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

That’s tanking in a nutshell and just happened two seasons ago. Tanking isn’t some conspiracy theory with that going on in the league it’s a real thing. And it happens with draft pick consideration as the reason. 

 

As I said, you believe what you want  to believe.

 

The idea of the Redskins "tanking" the rest of the season so they can have the 8th pick instead of the 12 pick is just silly.

 

As silly as the idea of someone cheering their favorite team to lose.

 

Besides, what difference does it make where they pick? With someone like you, you aren't going to be happy with who they pick anyway.  

[celticsalmon]

After slogging thru the win against the QB Less Cards- and then enjoying the Steelers- Patriots- I realize that our beloved Skins are division III ball.

[KDawg]

Game was on. Watched it while wrapping Christmas gifts. Wasn’t really all that invested given our lack of relevance.

 

Being irrelevant isn’t a good feeling and there needs to be some changes to ensure this happens as little as possible.

 

There’s my assessment.

[Dissident2]

3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

I'm pleased with the win and I want 2 more wins this year.  I don't think people who want the team to lose to improve draft position understand the importance of a team culture.  Every time a team wins a game the culture gets stronger especially so in a situation where the team is out of the playoffs.  Success in 2018 and beyond begins with improvement now, wins now, not next year after some new guys are added.

 

I get that, but I don't agree in this case. I would've just a couple years ago. But I've come to think that the "culture" created at the top by the toxicity of Snyder and Allen is so detrimental to serious success and so pervading that meaningless wins like this at the end of a season against terrible teams are just that when it comes to building a culture: MEANINGLESS. 

 

The only real shot at culture change is to change the way we do business from the top down. Obviously Danny Boy is entrenched, but the more of a shambles this season becomes, the better the chances of getting rid of Allen, certainly the second biggest reason for our perpetual failure. 

 

I couldn't believe it, I really couldn't, but I was actually hoping for a loss today. I've never felt that way before. It was kind of sickening, to be honest, but it was something that happened naturally and that I just had to face. I've gotten barely any joy whatsoever out of this win. It was an absolutely garbage game with two garbage teams and will mean absolutely nothing to anyone when this season ends. 

 

Yes, I'm the life of the party. 

[LaxBuddy21]

This was my first game going in person after giving my season tickets up once we broke RGIII. The offense looked like they were being held together by bandaids. The defense had spurts but overall didn't look like a competitive NFL defense. The special teams were a joke. Basically, it looked like the Redskins I have known most of my life, sadly. That being said, I really would like to stay the course with our quarterback and head coach for 3 more seasons and see what happens. I would love a new GM and could see a new defensive coordinator but I don't want to blow it up again. Sadly, I fear that is what will happen once they fail to sign Kirk. 

[William Barbour]

Would of really liked to see Kirk take it up a notch and put Cardinals away. Instead, he played it safe. Turning down several shot plays for checkdowns, and protecting the lead. 

 

He managed the game well and didn't make mistakes. Just want more from 25 million. 

 

Defense played how they should vs Gabbart. 

 

Jay Gruden called a great game. That reverse was a terrible call, but they were setting it up all game. Curious to what personel they wanted in. 

 

Vernon Davis avoids contact more than our QB does. Killing the run game, and turned it over avoiding the hit. Also, butchered the boot call on 2nd down to close the game. He didn't even try to block Jones and sell run. He Literally stood still for a few moments and ran softly to the flat. 

 

K. Fuller is the best DB in the team. 

 

Anthony Lanier, a Doug Williams find. Is growing into a good player. 

[PlayAction]

I watched part of the game and checked my phone for updates.  When the Cardinals got the ball back with their final opportunity to score a TD and win the game....I turned off the TV and walked away.  I've seen that story too many times.

 

Defense was gassed.  It's not their fault.  The offense has to be able to sustain drives and give the defense a breather.  I don't care if the defense bends if they keep limiting the opposition to 3 points.  

[dyst]

5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

I'm pleased with the win and I want 2 more wins this year.  I don't think people who want the team to lose to improve draft position understand the importance of a team culture.  Every time a team wins a game the culture gets stronger especially so in a situation where the team is out of the playoffs.  Success in 2018 and beyond begins with improvement now, wins now, not next year after some new guys are added.

Just to ride off this, we say this every year and it gets us no where. 

 

We always win meaningless games at the end to reach 7 or 8 wins and all it does is net us a mediocre spot in the draft.

 

Rarely if ever does it lead to a strong start the following year. I know what you mean, but for THIS team it doesn’t work.

[elkabong82]

I'd be perfectly fine if the Skins got rid of Manusky and brought in Guenther for DC, assuming Cincy cleans house when Marvin Lewis leaves.

[PotomacGator]

1 hour ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

This was my first game going in person after giving my season tickets up once we broke RGIII. The offense looked like they were being held together by bandaids. The defense had spurts but overall didn't look like a competitive NFL defense. The special teams were a joke. Basically, it looked like the Redskins I have known most of my life, sadly. That being said, I really would like to stay the course with our quarterback and head coach for 3 more seasons and see what happens. I would love a new GM and could see a new defensive coordinator but I don't want to blow it up again. Sadly, I fear that is what will happen once they fail to sign Kirk. 

 

I can't personally give the defense flak for this game; I think they pretty much won it.

 

Offense was awful until late. 

 

Consistency remains this team's biggest weakness. We are capable of running a machine-like O with what I'd call, overall, average offensive players. We just can't do it as consistently as is necessary. Injuries and lack of depth are showing but I think the team is capable of playing better.

 

Also: what in the flying F(#@ is going on on special teams? Giving away possession on a kickoff? I almost couldn't grasp that it had actually happened.

[ncr2h]

51 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

Vernon Davis avoids contact more than our QB does. Killing the run game, and turned it over avoiding the hit. Also, butchered the boot call on 2nd down to close the game. He didn't even try to block Jones and sell run. He Literally stood still for a few moments and ran softly to the flat. 

He also seems allergic to diving for the football.  Last week he missed a 40+ yard bomb that grazed past his outstretched fingers.  This week he missed a corner route that was somewhat off target due to pressure on the QB, but it looked like he made 0 adjustment to try to get the ball.  Maybe neither ball was catchable - we'll never know - but I would at least like to see an honest attempt at a catch rather than just running your route hard.

 

My other takeaway is that it's probably time to move on from the idea of Josh Doctson making any significant contributions to this team going forward.  If we go into next year expecting him to be a #1 or even a #2 WR, it will blow up in our face.  He's sort of a rookie...but at the same time he's also 25 years old.  He's older than Crowder - are you still expecting Crowder to make enormous steps?  No.  Crowder is mostly a finished product with some upside potential due to the fact that he at least has shown he can be dangerous in this league.  Anybody hoping for Doctson to be a #1 or #2 is hoping for a complete metamorphosis from a guy who is reaching an age where he should be considered more of a vet than a rookie.

 

I say you enter next year looking for Doctson to be your #3 most targeted WR, and if he ends up performing so well that he eats into other WRs' targets, that's great.  But I would hate for us to go into next year expecting him to be a #1 or #2, and then come away disappointed.  We need to bring in a guy who can actually be relied on in that #1 role.  Even if he isn't a top tier guy, if he can at least be like Garcon was for us in 2012-2013, that would be a big step up.

[Taylorcooley1]

4 minutes ago, dyst said:

Just to ride off this, we say this every year and it gets us no where. 

 

We always win meaningless games at the end to reach 7 or 8 wins and all it does is net us a mediocre spot in the draft.

 

Rarely if ever does it lead to a strong start the following year. I know what you mean, but for THIS team it doesn’t work.

Neither does loosing for a better draft pick..there's absolutely nothing us,we, me, you, him or her can do about how the draft is ran..we can only hope prey and wish for it to pan out(the players we select)...I think we have the talent to win big time right now and do not see a difference in 3-4 spots..especially when we have an incompetent front office..until things are ran properly the head coach won't even succeed..it all starts with finishing the season off strong keep everything in tact and for god's sake lock both Kirk and Zach down...hopefully we can bring in a competent management team and Snyder and Allen can back the **** off let go and let management and coaching run the team.

[@DCGoldPants]

3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

What was suspect about the play calling?  What plays can you run with 2 guys from the bus station playing running back and 4 out of 5 starting OL out?  I think the deep drop passing game is off the table.  Probably a bunch of running plays can't be used either with so many reserves playing up front.  How much of the playbook will the new backs know?   I am not sure what you are thinking about but I think the offensive coaches did a good job.  How does a team manage to win with 4 OL out and guys from the bus station playing running back?  Somehow the Skins managed to move the ball enough to score 17 and win.  I would give credit to the defense for the win since they kept the Cardinals out of the end zone but how many stops did the defense really get, the third-down defense was painful to watch.  The defense is depleted also so I am sure that played into it.

The weird end around with your tallest WR (not fastest), or the weird draw play. Continued bunched formation stuff. Yeah, you are thin in the OL. More west coast quick stuff. Less waiting for **** to develop when you don't even have a 3 count. Defense did what they needed to do. 

[Taylorcooley1]

6 minutes ago, PotomacGator said:

 

Giving away possession on a kickoff? 

Damn near every one of our games..despite me preaching keeping the coaching staff in tact there needs to be something done about the st's..

[William Barbour]

15 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

The weird end around with your tallest WR (not fastest), or the weird draw play. Continued bunched formation stuff. Yeah, you are thin in the OL. More west coast quick stuff. Less waiting for **** to develop when you don't even have a 3 count. Defense did what they needed to do. 

 

Jay Gruden called 1 bad play out of 40. We should fire this guy.

 

While we fire him. Let's ignore the TD where JC is wide open, and the screen pass with our 6th string RB who had 30 yards of grass in front of him. 

 

Let's also ignore the several passes Kirk makes every week where JC is so open, all Kirk has to do is loft it into open space for 30 yard gains. 

 

It's a common theme to run bunch sets to help WR get open. It also helps Kirk read defenses better. It's also our BEST formation when Reed is healthy. 

 

The WCO "quick stuff" is what Kirk is good at. If Kirk is our QB of the future. You better get use to it. Because it won't matter how many deep shot plays Jay calls. (5 in the second half). If Kirk doesn't throw them, it will always be quick game. 

 

Believe it or not. Jay actually adapts the offense to suit his players strengths. 

[RWJ]

Skins need to clean house from Allen down!  Simple BUT Snyder won't do it.  

[Warhead36]

I don't really sweat draft positioning. There are good players available at every pick in every round. We got Jonathan Allen at 17 last draft and nobody though he'd be available even 24 hours before the draft.