Is it still early?

[dyst]

After the loss against the Chargers today, I wanted to create a thread that I hope can prepare us for the offseason. It's very likely the thread might not get the participation needed to stay relevant going into next year or worse yet, it ends up being locked, but I hope for even a brief moment in time, it opens the mind of a few people. 

 

This thread is for all fans, but more specifically, for the "it's still early" crowd. That small but very vocal subset of Redskins fans who either through their passion or unwavioring hope for this team, just refuse to see the Redskins for what they are and in turn let their passion negatively impact their relationship with other less enthused fans.

 

Back in July, USA Today predicted the Skins to finish with only 5 wins. The subsequent thread had many people who couldn't believe such a prediction would be made. The Redskins had just signed Terrelle Pryor, DJ Sweringer and Zach Brown. No longer were we shackled by an inept defensive coordinator and our franchise QB was only getting better. This was just another hit-job by the media who forever hates the team. Yet here we are, sitting at 5-8 with three games left in the season. 

 

Fast forward to the preseason and it was obvious the team was struggling, more specifically the WRs and Kirk. Several of us saw the struggles and pointed them out, but alas the "it's still early" crowd, assured us it was only preseason, and way to early to panic. The team was just keeping it vanilla, we didn't want to show our magical hand to the rest of the league and the fury that would be unleashed by this organization once the real games begun! Except the regular season started and the WRs continued to suck and Kirk came out the gate slow, again. Okay, not a big deal, we'll chalk it up to early season jitters. 

 

Then there was the discussion about our WRs. Remember this thread? We had guys in there who were flabbergasted that some of us thought the receiving corps was a concern. We didn't need Jackson or Garcon because Pryor and Doctson were about to take the NFL by storm and who can forget Crowder, I mean this guy almost had 1000 yards last year and if it wasn't for Garcon and Jackson, he might have gotten it. Those two were only holding him back. The "it's still early" crowd told us to relax after the first game when Pryor didn't look like an NFL wide receiver. Okay, so preseason and one official game isn't enough to judge the talent on the field but 4 or 5 weeks certainly should right? Nope, it was "still to early" to judge.

 

Remember how some of us dread primetime games, or meaningful games because its typically when the Skins seem the most inept? Well the "it's still early" crowd told us this year was different. We feared Kirk in big moments because it seemed like he always had too many turnovers or game changing plays. We even had a concern that Jay Gruden, did not seem to have his team ready to play when it mattered most. Don't panic, it's too early we were warned and yet here we are, another mediocre year where we lose in big games with our QB making in opportune mistakes and our coach seemingly getting out coached.

 

Typically during the course of an offseason, preseason, first play, first series, first game, several games and several YEARS...you can get a feel for a team and this team is not ready to compete. So next time, when it's the 1st quarter and we drop a pass, and a guy seems negative, it's very likely that negative guy is going to be correct more often than not about this team...because they just aren't any good. It's not a revelation, it's just factual. The team is not good, but very mediocre. It's call purgatory. Can't bottom out nor get into heaven. 

 

Basically, everyone should be ready for next offseason when the media hit-jobs continue to rank us near the bottom of the NFL and rightfully so.

 

[kleese]

Well @dyst the difference this year is that they WERE ready to play early. Pre season was a disaster but didn’t really carry over. Week one Kirk had what I felt was his worst game of the year, but we played OK and lost a tight game to arguably the best team in the league. Then the next week we go on the road to what is a likely division winner and play quite well and win. Then we dismantle the Raiders on prime time. The next week another prime time game and we are obviously ready to roll in KC. But guys start dropping like flies in that game and that is precisely when the defense starts to worsen. 

 

But those first four games this year we looked VERY legitimate. After that we were ravaged by injuries coupled with a brutal stretch of schedule. We battled through it and then suffered a devastating loss in NOLA. 

 

I do think criticism is warranted on two fronts... 

 

1. The Cowboy and Charger losses were really bad. Even with the UPS drivers we have out there, it’s a bad look. 

 

2. No matter the circumstance they are 5-8 and not going to the playoffs so looking at this as just another meh year in a string of them is a fine angle to take. 

 

But I actually don’t think this year in vacuum what you are talking about really applies. Redskins looked pretty darn good early this season. They were compensating for things like the WR issue by utilizing other weapons, etc. 

 

Everyone that freaked out about Kirk and the team looking like garbage in pre-season was probably overreacting. By week 2 we were winning on the road against the Rams. 

[Csup]

I’d say below average.  Losing on and off the field.  No confidence that anybody at Redskins park knows what they are doing..,and no confidence that a turn-around is in the foreseeable future.  

 

The future is bleak if, like me, you think Synder has destroyed this once proud franchise. Here is hoping for a Xmas miracle and the midget decides to sell his team and move on to destroying something else.  

[c slag]

I think loosing Monday night at Philly and the following week loosing to Dallas at home really crippled the season and the final knockout blow was the ot loss in New Orleans 

[CjSuAvE22]

We are a garbage organization minus the fans I hope Bruce Allen is shown the door.. 

[alstontka]

Titanic has set sail, sunk, and is still bottoming out. Dan and Bruce were the first off. Get ready for a red rifle sighting (Andy Dalton) in D.C. next year and more incompetence 

[hail2skins]

I'm baffled by people who think the schedule is going to be any easier next year.  We play the NFC South, who may send three teams to the playoffs, and the AFC South, who may send two teams and the other two should at least come into the season with better QB situations than they currently have.  

[abdcskins]

I predicted 7 wins for this team at the start of the season and I think I'm gonna hit the nail on the head.

 

This team will never win anything until there is a change of ownership.  Bad owners hire bad general managers and coaches who thereby select bad players and coach poorly.  That's the cycle of suckitude for this franchise.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

I predicted 7 wins for this team at the start of the season and I think I'm gonna hit the nail on the head.

 

This team will never win anything until there is a change of ownership.  Bad owners hire bad general managers and coaches who thereby select bad players and coach poorly.  That's the cycle of suckitude for this franchise.

Yeah I see 7-9. I think we'll split one of the next two at home and beat the Giants in the "nobody gives an eff game" in the finale.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I see 7-9. I think we'll split one of the next two at home and beat the Giants in the "nobody gives an eff game" in the finale.

I see 6-10 because we split the next 2 and lose to the Giants in Eli's farewell. Which would be so ****ing fitting and would make me spitting mad.  Which is the reason it will happen that way...

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I was one of the few folks sticking up for the media, in that we are historically not very good, and don't really deserve any benefit of doubt.  That they would be right more times than not predicting us to finish last in the division.

 

With that said, The immediate impact of Jon Allen and Matt Ioanidis with two hands was unbeknownst to me at that time.  Their injuries crushed the defense.  The drop off behind those guys is drastic.  The defense goes to absolute **** with no push in the middle.  Add in the loss of Foster, Nicholson was looking good but couldn't stay on the field, Norman was playing great before he got hurt and hasn't been the same since and the list goes on.  But really if we simply had that push up the middle, the coverage is better, Kerrigan and Smith get home, force bad throws and so on.  

 

As for the receivers, that was a legit concern.  If you told me than that Pryor would blow and Reed wouldn't suit up healthy all season, I'd never expect to score as much as we have.

 

I can be very cynical about this team and have never fell back on injuries as excuses.  But this season it tells the whole story.  This 5-8 isn't how we usually do 5-8.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

@BatteredFanSyndrome it doesn’t feel like it defensively.  

 

But offensivly, we trusted 

 

1. Reed - A guy who has never stayed healthy to stay healthy

 

2. Doctson - A 1st round pick who was injured all last season to contribute on a big way 

 

3. Pryor - a talented athlete who’s only played WR for one year

 

4. Grant - a try-hard guy with limited physical ability 

 

5. Rob Kelley - the definition of a JAG

 

6. Crowder - take our best slot guy, move him outside as well and have him as the only punt returner on the team. (Same thing we did to ARE back in the Gibbs years)

 

7. VD - a 34 year old TE.  He’s played pretty well.  

 

These are the guys we PLANNED to replace the production of Djax and Garcon.  

 

The plan was bad from the beginning.  

 

The plan was very Redskins.  

 

[dyst]

Regarding the difficult schedule, it's only difficult because they are better then us. Try that on for size

[kleese]

2 minutes ago, dyst said:

Regarding the difficult schedule, it's only difficult because they are better then us. Try that on for size

 

Just pointing out that the glut of injuries occurred at precisely a time when we played some of the best teams the league has to offer...it got a little bit worse each week which can be attributed to attrition to some extent. 

 

Its tough because I totally get the overall feeling of hopelessness and dejection. Another Redskins season down the drain and ultimately it doesn’t matter why. I understand that. But if you take the 2017 season as a entity unto itself I do very much think it can explained first by the terrible injury circumstances. Then from there, you can pick out other areas.

[dyst]

1 hour ago, kleese said:

 

Just pointing out that the glut of injuries occurred at precisely a time when we played some of the best teams the league has to offer...it got a little bit worse each week which can be attributed to attrition to some extent. 

 

Its tough because I totally get the overall feeling of hopelessness and dejection. Another Redskins season down the drain and ultimately it doesn’t matter why. I understand that. But if you take the 2017 season as a entity unto itself I do very much think it can explained first by the terrible injury circumstances. Then from there, you can pick out other areas.

Oh yea is it ever frustrating. It’s really difficult to be a fan of this team. I don’t mean its hard, I mean its painful.

 

The mediocre record, the coaching carousel, the wack a mole QBs, the owner (yea he is a problem), management, the PR guys, the injuries, death, free agent disasters you name it. Sure there have been bright spots but the negative far out weigh the positive.

 

It’s just a never ending cycle. A nightmare that you can’t escape. 

 

Two years ago we won the East with 9 wins (lol) when the divison was weak and fans thought the following year we were going to the super bowl.

 

Last year we won 8 games and people just attributed it to a few bad bounces (missed FG for example).

 

This year we might win 7 if we are lucky and people will attribute it to injuries or the schedule.

 

Are we just an unlucky team for 27 years or do we just suck. I think we just suck.

. 

[Wildbunny]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@BatteredFanSyndrome it doesn’t feel like it defensively.  

 

But offensivly, we trusted 

 

1. Reed - A guy who has never stayed healthy to stay healthy

 

2. Doctson - A 1st round pick who was injured all last season to contribute on a big way 

 

3. Pryor - a talented athlete who’s only played WR for one year

 

4. Grant - a try-hard guy with limited physical ability 

 

5. Rob Kelley - the definition of a JAG

 

6. Crowder - take our best slot guy, move him outside as well and have him as the only punt returner on the team. (Same thing we did to ARE back in the Gibbs years)

 

7. VD - a 34 year old TE.  He’s played pretty well.  

 

These are the guys we PLANNED to replace the production of Djax and Garcon.  

 

The plan was bad from the beginning.  

 

The plan was very Redskins.  

 

That's interesting that you left Chris Thompson out of this list.

Our offense went dead few minutes after he went down with a broken leg.

[CjSuAvE22]

They set this team up for cousins to fail the entire crop of receivers have been bums all year minus #85 we started the season with the worst receivers in the league and will end the season with the worst ones it’s mainly why two mediocre teams made us look worse than the browns the last two weeks. And I agree we SUCK there’s no silver lining only the redskins can mess up having a top ten qb on the roster ppl who say we should let cousins walk and if he does will see how horrendous this team is.

[DJHJR86]

Not trying to sound like too much of a homer, but going 8-8 (or even 7-9) with the injuries this team has had would be a quasi-miracle at this point.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

The injuries killed any chance, you simply can't sustain that level and maintain. However it exposed just how poorly this roster has been constructed when the backup OL, DL and safeties can't come close to playing at an acceptable NFL level.  

[skinsmarydu]

11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Not trying to sound like too much of a homer, but going 8-8 (or even 7-9) with the injuries this team has had would be a quasi-miracle at this point.  

I only pray for a winning season, but to get 8-8 out of this injury-minefield would have me jumping for joy. 

[fordranger76]

No team and I mean NO team could survive this season with the injuries that they have. Point fingers and blame who you want but the bottom line is that you cannot expect to win and do it consistently with the war that this team has had. When they were healthy they were looking pretty damn capable as a team.

[Wildbunny]

22 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

The injuries killed any chance, you simply can't sustain that level and maintain. However it exposed just how poorly this roster has been constructed when the backup OL, DL and safeties can't come close to playing at an acceptable NFL level.  

In some case we're playing backups of backups of backups...

[Burgold]

16 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

In some case we're playing backups of backups of backups...

 

And therein lies my confusion. For the longest time, I could make the argument that Gruden and the Front Office did a remarkable job not only holding this team together, but making them competitive despite the insane degree of injuries. Perhaps it's that duct tape can only hold an engine together for so long, but for two weeks this team has not put up a fight. They've played like they've been given permission to lose.

 

Have the Redskins in keeping the boat of water for so long been amazing or do we condemn them now that it's taken on so much water that it sunk? Has the Captain abandoned ship or is he leading a ghost crew? All I really know is that for two weeks, the Redskins haven't come to play and just looked terrible, unprepared, incompetent, and uninspired.

 

The Dallas game was worse because the Cowboys tried their hardest to give us the game and quit themselves until we offered them one too many chances. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

In some case we're playing backups of backups of backups...

 

In a lot of cases we are not.  McLain, McGee, Hood, etc are all rotational guys, they really aren't even backups and they stink.  . D. Everett and D Hall were primary backups at safety. Every time I see them they are chasing someone.  Chase and Ty are decent enough backup OL, all the rest are simply not good enough to be in the league. The depth on this team, even the primary backups, are not nearly good enough across the board.  

[CjSuAvE22]

I’m surprised at how many people think we “looked good” before the injuries it’s simply not true our leading receiver was a running back the defense was still getting gashed good teams can run the ball we couldn’t...yeah they played very well vs the Raiders but a good team would have won the Chiefs game, this team was competitive early on not because we were a good team but because the defense could get pressure more times than I’ve seen in years the qb play was decent I’ll give Gruden credit he’s taken this sub par roster as far as he could to keep us competitive early on, however I don’t think we ever looked good for more than a few quarters of football at a time that does not resemble a “good” team and yes injuries have caused a good deal of issues but a good team would have found a way to be competitive the redskins instead are looking for a scape goat...