The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

"Bruce Allen has no peer when it comes to dealing with the salary cap. He's the expert of experts and he understands the football part of it too, which is rare for cap people. "

 

Where is that gem from?

[SkinsFTW]

If Bill Polian keeps talking like that they might diagnose him with dementia.

 

Bruce is the "experts of experts" 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

"Bruce Allen has no peer when it comes to dealing with the salary cap. He's the expert of experts and he understands the football part of it too, which is rare for cap people. "

 

Yeah I've commented on Polian on the thread before.   He's one of Bruce's only pals. I can do you better.  Polian also has a gem about how genius it is that Bruce interviews multiple candidates for coaching positions -- letting him pick the brains of multiple guys as if other teams just interview one guy and its one and done.   I watched him on NFL.com recently and of course suggests that Alex Smith is by a mile the best QB on the market.  I recall when they traded for RG3, Polian said RG3 is "can't miss". The best-quickest release for a QB since Dan Marino.

 

Bruce like anyone (Cerrato had fans, too including Kiper) has some outliers. I can give you a couple of others.  But they are the vast minority.

[Reaper Skins]

Imagine if we had kept Scott, elevated Jay, and had them running all the Gm duties and personnel scouting, with McVay as the head coach.

 

 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Now do I have faith in Dan to hire someone who has those abilities? Not really. But you know you are not going there with this FO. Sooner or later, hopefully Dan will dumb his way into a better situation. And this is where I give Dan his proper share of the blame. I honestly am at the point tat the only way this team gets' the SB again is if Dan sells the team. But we can still hope. 

I've been thinking about this.  What I settled on is that it's more likely that Dan could be the owner of a SB team than Bruce an executive of a SB team.  

I actually think Dan is listening to Bruce.  I really do.  I think he's getting bad advice, but I think he's listening and trusting the advice that he's getting.  

 

Which can actually be extremely valuable if you are getting good advice.  But when you're trusting an incompetent fool, that's the problem. 

 

So, in order for Dan to get a winner, I think we need to bottom out, probably for multiple years, which will force him to fire Bruce.  Which he doesn't want to do.  

 

Then he will be at a complete inflection point: who does he hire to run the football operations?  That decision will set the direction probably for 10 more years.

 

Personally, I think he should look for a a team executive to run things who can hire a GM and Coach.  Kindof like the way Coughlin is operating down in Jacksonville, Parcells did down in Miami for a time, etc.. In some places, the GM can also be the guy at the top of the org chart, and that works, but I think here, it would be better to get that top-level exec in place who's job is to hire the GM, Coach, and set the direction. 

 

So, for this top-level executive, I'm thinking a top-line retired coach or player.  I racked my brain thinking about who this could be.  I'd be interested in other people's thoughts.  The only guy I came up with was Peyton Manning.  Who I think would be awesome at it, but I've been a Peyton fan since I sat at the same lunch table with him when he was at Tennessee.   I'm not sure who else would have the resume Dan would trust implicitly, and also the football knowledge to really guide an organization.  Thoughts?  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Personally, I think he should look for a a team executive to run things who can hire a GM and Coach.  Kindof like the way Coughlin is operating down in Jacksonville, Parcells did down in Miami for a time, etc.. In some places, the GM can also be the guy at the top of the org chart, and that works, but I think here, it would be better to get that top-level exec in place who's job is to hire the GM, Coach, and set the direction. 

 

So, for this top-level executive, I'm thinking a top-line retired coach or player.  I racked my brain thinking about who this could be.  I'd be interested in other people's thoughts.  The only guy I came up with was Peyton Manning.  Who I think would be awesome at it, but I've been a Peyton fan since I sat at the same lunch table with him when he was at Tennessee.   I'm not sure who else would have the resume Dan would trust implicitly, and also the football knowledge to really guide an organization.  Thoughts?  

 

I just saw the "Timeline" about Manning and I had the same exact thought! 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I just saw the "Timeline" about Manning and I had the same exact thought! 

"Timeline" about Manning?  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

"Timeline" about Manning?  

It's very good and shows just how detail-oriented he is: 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've been thinking about this.  What I settled on is that it's more likely that Dan could be the owner of a SB team than Bruce an executive of a SB team.  

I actually think Dan is listening to Bruce.  I really do.  I think he's getting bad advice, but I think he's listening and trusting the advice that he's getting.  

 

Which can actually be extremely valuable if you are getting good advice.  But when you're trusting an incompetent fool, that's the problem. 

 

So, for this top-level executive, I'm thinking a top-line retired coach or player.  I racked my brain thinking about who this could be.  I'd be interested in other people's thoughts.  The only guy I came up with was Peyton Manning.  Who I think would be awesome at it, but I've been a Peyton fan since I sat at the same lunch table with him when he was at Tennessee.   I'm not sure who else would have the resume Dan would trust implicitly, and also the football knowledge to really guide an organization.  Thoughts?  

 

I've thought about Peyton before same way you do here.  Will Dan do it, though?

 

My position to Bruce-Dan is similar to yours.   I do think both are problems but for different reasons.  I think Dan isn't that sharp about building a good operation and neither is Bruce -- but Bruce knows how to work Dan and convince him he knows what he's doing.  I think they are both similar cats and bring out the worst of each other for different reasons.

 

It's a small sample, granted, but the one day I was at Redskins Park in 2016.  Bruce I noticed.  Dan wasn't even there.  I've heard others say similar things about Dan not even being there much.  I don't think Scot is a dummy and Kirk too where they see Bruce as the problem -- and they are both totally fooled by it and its really Dan pulling Bruce's strings.

 

But its a tough discussion for me to paint in broad brushes because to me my guess is that there is a lot of grey in the mix.  I bet Dan does manipulate Bruce sometimes.  But I do think a lot of the crap going on is Bruce's baby.  There is a reason why Bruce was called the Prince of Darkness by the Tampa media. 

 

I don't buy the narrative that Bruce is a just a good dude who went rogue with the Redskins or is manipulated every step of the way by Dan.  I'd bet Bruce manipulates Dan more so than the other way around.  I know some of my fellow FO critics disagree with me on this.  I guess there is no way to know but its just my gut. 

 

I do think Bruce being canned may benefit this team a lot.  And yeah Peyton Manning would be perfect for Dan -- its a splash.  And I actually think there is some potential to it actually working.   My take on Dan is he's always going to be a problem.  My hope is that we get an arrangement similar to Dallas where Jerry still looms large but at least they got a stud in the FO in Will McClay who has been right on enough and has such a big league wide rep that Jerry has learned to back off.

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

It's very good and shows just how detail-oriented he is: 

Detail oriented is exactly what we need.  He also is a pretty good communicator, and for whatever it's worth, I trust him to break down film just about as well as anybody.  He also spent a long time in an organization with Bill Pollian and Tony Dungy. 

 

@Skinsinparadise I completely agree with everything in your post.  The one thing about Bruce, though, is I think he KNOWS what Dan wants a lot of the time, and gives it to him.  (Except wins). I don't think Dan manipulates Bruce.  I think there are times Dan might tell Bruce what he wants done.  But a lot of the time, I think it's Bruce knows what will juice the owner, and makes it his idea. 

 

Though, I've got to think that the low-spending, average results, and "meh" attitude of the fan base in general will eventually wear Dan down and he'll have to fire Bruce.

 

Peyton would be the PERFECT solution as an exec.  Not the GM.  He's the face of the organization.  His football acumen is absolutely beyond reproach.  He's the biggest name out there.  He has RINGS.  He's engaging, and he has a really good network of coaches and FO types he could call on.  And if you're really down to your 4th or 5th string QB, at least for the next 3-4 years, he could probably suite up and play a few games. "OMAHA!"  (J/k). The drawbacks would be that he's never done it, and to a few, they just hate Peyton for being Peyton.  Shrug. 

 

 

[Wildbunny]

 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Personally, I think he should look for a a team executive to run things who can hire a GM and Coach.  Kindof like the way Coughlin is operating down in Jacksonville, Parcells did down in Miami for a time, etc.. In some places, the GM can also be the guy at the top of the org chart, and that works, but I think here, it would be better to get that top-level exec in place who's job is to hire the GM, Coach, and set the direction. 

But that's how it works here!

 

Bruce is the top exec.

He hired our lasts GMs in both Scott and Doug

He hired our HC in Gruden.

 

He sets the direction:

Downward.

 

So we're good!

[Birdlives]

The only GM for us is Dan Snyder. He’s the only GM we’ve ever had since he took over. Sure, he’ll offer complete control to someone to get them in the door, but eventually they’ll make a mistake and Dan will lose faith and get involved like he always does. How long was Marty here before Dan wanted to take things back? Was Joe Gibbs back for more than a minute before Dan and Vinny started making suggestions? Shanny was here about a minute before his authority was usurped. Scot was run out of town on a rail. Dan might not be as vocal as he was in the early days, but his finger prints are all over this team.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

@Skinsinparadise I completely agree with everything in your post.  The one thing about Bruce, though, is I think he KNOWS what Dan wants a lot of the time, and gives it to him.  (Except wins). I don't think Dan manipulates Bruce.  I think there are times Dan might tell Bruce what he wants done.  But a lot of the time, I think it's Bruce knows what will juice the owner, and makes it his idea. 

 

 

Probably so.  Bruce to make comes off like a dude who knows his audience and knows how to work that building.  I thought it was telling when Scot was asked for one word to define Bruce and he said "politician". 

 

I blame Dan for setting the culture and Bruce knowing how to push all the right buttons to stay on top within that culture.  Batman and Robin.  They both IMO bring out each other's worst.  I get the skepticism of some that you can break up that duo and Dan would hire another Bruce type anyway.  It's indeed possible but I'll take my chances.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Detail oriented is exactly what we need.  He also is a pretty good communicator, and for whatever it's worth, I trust him to break down film just about as well as anybody.  He also spent a long time in an organization with Bill Pollian and Tony Dungy. 

 

@Skinsinparadise I completely agree with everything in your post.  The one thing about Bruce, though, is I think he KNOWS what Dan wants a lot of the time, and gives it to him.  (Except wins). I don't think Dan manipulates Bruce.  I think there are times Dan might tell Bruce what he wants done.  But a lot of the time, I think it's Bruce knows what will juice the owner, and makes it his idea. 

 

Though, I've got to think that the low-spending, average results, and "meh" attitude of the fan base in general will eventually wear Dan down and he'll have to fire Bruce.

 

Peyton would be the PERFECT solution as an exec.  Not the GM.  He's the face of the organization.  His football acumen is absolutely beyond reproach.  He's the biggest name out there.  He has RINGS.  He's engaging, and he has a really good network of coaches and FO types he could call on.  And if you're really down to your 4th or 5th string QB, at least for the next 3-4 years, he could probably suite up and play a few games. "OMAHA!"  (J/k). The drawbacks would be that he's never done it, and to a few, they just hate Peyton for being Peyton.  Shrug. 

 

 

If you haven't done so, watch the episode I added to my post. It's a full hour (minus commercials) but there are glimpses into how driven he is and some of what he picks up on. They shared a story about how he was tutoring the coaches at Tennessee and, similar to the famous Lombardi story, he spent a very long time detailing one play. 

[FrFan]

13 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

He sets the direction:

Downward.

 

So we're good!

@SkinsFTW get out of this body !

[skins island connection]

18 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've been thinking about this.  What I settled on is that it's more likely that Dan could be the owner of a SB team than Bruce an executive of a SB team.  

I actually think Dan is listening to Bruce.  I really do.  I think he's getting bad advice, but I think he's listening and trusting the advice that he's getting.  

 

Which can actually be extremely valuable if you are getting good advice.  But when you're trusting an incompetent fool, that's the problem. 

 

 

 I'm sure of it.

Moreso, I think Allen is manipulating and brain washing Snyder. Bruce Allen has bounced around quite a few teams, but I bet he picked up most of his bad habits while with the Raiders. We all know Snyder was a fan of the team before he bought it, and he has special alliances towards people formerly associated with the Redskins, which is where Bruce comes into the picture. Bruce is a snake oil salesman and has convinced Snyder that everyone else is the problem.

 

 

[celticsalmon]

Allen/Snyder take for granted the deep loyalty most Redskin's fans have.  Year in and year out they bumble and stumble and there we are in our Burgundy and Gold giving these clowns a pass because of what the team means to us. But Allen/Synder have never shown similar loyalty to many players whom they groom and develop.  This year's crop-Cousins & Breeland head the list. Like the Antonio Pierce's of the past (and to an extent Champ Bailey) - these players will go somewhere else and do well-very well!  In Cousins case, Allen/Snyder have manipulated the fans (and local press) and turned them against these exiled players when in fact it is Allen/Synder who deserve our wrath!   We cannot rid ourselves of little big man- but Bruce Allen is incompetent - and he must be exiled -imo

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, celticsalmon said:

In Cousins case, Allen/Snyder have manipulated the fans (and local press) and turned them against these exiled players when in fact it is Allen/Synder who deserve our wrath!   

Sadly, many of us predicted this and it fell on deaf ears.  I actually don't think most fans really like Bruce, believe he's done a good job or is capable of building a winner for the future.  But what he's done masterfully is turn this into Kirk vs. the team and subsequently gained supporters (whether they'll admit it or not) for himself in doing so. 

[88Comrade2000]

Watched Doug's Q&A on FB yesterday.  I have no clue, how he will do but I got the impression; he's not the final decision maker.  He said Cousins was a free agent but they might decided to use the tag on Cousins.  Who's they?  Bruce and Dan, right?

 

While they may let Doug run things, ultimately Bruce & Dan will do the deciding.  If there's a free agent Bruce or Dan want, they will go after them.  If there's a particular player they want drafted; they will do that.  Doug's nothing more than a front man.

[LightningBuggs]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

While they may let Doug run things, ultimately Bruce & Dan will do the deciding.  If there's a free agent Bruce or Dan want, they will go after them.  If there's a particular player they want drafted; they will do that.  Doug's nothing more than a front man.

Absolutely.  Brucey is hiding behind him so that he doesn't have to face the media and thus the fans.  That way he thinks he can remain blameless.

[Wildbunny]

7 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

Absolutely.  Brucey is hiding behind him so that he doesn't have to face the media and thus the fans.  That way he thinks he can remain blameless.

I'm still not convinced that Bruce could ever use Doug Williams as a decoy and fire him if needed be.

Sure he is entitled to do so.

 

Not sure Dan would appreciate that.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35785/is-bruce-allens-seat-hot-his-record-suggests-it-should-be

 

Interesting take from J Keim here.... my take? ... I'd almost rather suck through a 3-13 season this coming year if it will get Allen out of here...

 

And having been a fan for literally 40 years, saying that kinda breaks my heart....  

[FrFan]

25 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35785/is-bruce-allens-seat-hot-his-record-suggests-it-should-be

 

Interesting take from J Keim here.... my take? ... I'd almost rather suck through a 3-13 season this coming year if it will get Allen out of here...

 

And having been a fan for literally 40 years, saying that kinda breaks my heart....  

The weasel predicted "The end is near"

[skinzplay]

Keim is usually very measured in his approach to reporting these kinds of things, and he's on point with this piece, as usual. Allen SHOULD be on the hot seat, and for far too many reasons to list.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

Keim is usually very measured in his approach to reporting these kinds of things, and he's on point with this piece, as usual. Allen SHOULD be on the hot seat, and for far too many reasons to list.

I have to believe that Keim is right in his assessment.

It doesn't really matter if he's a good guy or not, it doesn't really matter if we like him or not. It's tied to his success at leading the team and setting up the culture (though I believe all of this is tied somehow).

Still, getting rid of Kirk and Scott are big time decision from Bruce Allen, and if it doesn't pay off. He should be getting the axe because he setted up for this.