The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He also wasn't the defacto GM in Oakland like he is here.  Davis did his own thing his own way.  Mike Lombardi who actually worked with Bruce in Oakland said Bruce didn't know squat about personnel, he didn't do personnel there.  He was a contract guy.

 

But even if we played with the Oakland example.  He's been a loser for a long long time.   That award was almost 20 years.  

It's really a team award. Bruce had the title, so he got credit but we all know it was Davis who was making the decisions. Scott Pioli won it a couple times but it was Belichick who runs things there.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's really a team award. Bruce had the title, so he got credit but we all know it was Davis who was making the decisions. Scott Pioli won it a couple times but it was Belichick who runs things there.

 

The thing about Bruce is have we ever heard about him scouting anyone?  This or that move was based on Bruce's film review, etc?  That was Mike Lombardi's point about Bruce in the Raiders FO -- Bruce worked there with him but Bruce didn't do personnel, that wasn't his thing.   He's an ex-agent not an ex-scout.

 

The most personnel related thing I've heard about Bruce is Chris Russell saying recently he heard that Bruce hates it that he's not considered a football guy so has started watching tape more seriously, etc.

 

If I had to say the #1 thing that befuddles me about the few Bruce supporters is its hard to argue Bruce is a personnel guy at all -- so why would you want him overseeing personnel?  Forgot all the incompetence and PR disasters under his watch -- why would I want a non-personnel guy running that department and having ultimate calls on personnel?    When I have issues with the electricity in my house -- I don't call my accountant to deal with it - I call an electrician.   

 

[HardcoreZorn]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing about Bruce is have we ever heard about him scouting anyone?  This or that move was based on Bruce's film review, etc?  That was Mike Lombardi's point about Bruce in the Raiders FO -- Bruce worked there with him but Bruce didn't do personnel, that wasn't his thing.   He's an ex-agent not an ex-scout.

 

The most personnel related thing I've heard about Bruce is Chris Russell saying recently he heard that Bruce hates it that he's not considered a football guy so has started watching tape more seriously, etc.

 

If I had to say the #1 thing that befuddles me about the few Bruce supporters is its hard to argue Bruce is a personnel guy at all -- so why would you want him overseeing personnel?  Forgot all the incompetence and PR disasters under his watch -- why would I want a non-personnel guy running that department and having ultimate calls on personnel?    When I have issues with the electricity in my house -- I don't call my accountant to deal with it - I call an electrician.   

 

I don’t see too many people championing Bruce Allen as the savior. Some just don’t think everything is so black and white.

 

 I personally think we can do much much better, specifically because his specialty isn’t personnel. It’s gruden and Kyle smith that give me some hope in that department so it’s my hope he delegates appropriately to them. This draft and free agency will be very telling IMO. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I don’t see too many people championing Bruce Allen as the savior. Some just don’t think everything is so black and white.

 

 I personally think we can do much much better, specifically because his specialty isn’t personnel. It’s gruden and Kyle smith that give me some hope in that department so it’s my hope he delegates appropriately to them. This draft and free agency will be very telling IMO. 

 

Sure, I flat out said there weren't many but yeah there are some people on the board and on twitter who tout Bruce as a good GM.  As for them, to each their own -- everyone is entitled to their opinion on that front.  My point is per my last post my issue with Bruce is fundamental before even delving into specifics of whether he's done a good job or not -- that is, he's not a traditional GM.  IMO if you are going to put a non-personnel guy in charge of personnel IMO they have to be really really special at what they do.

 

Case in point for me, I love Joe Gibbs.  And I liked the Shanny hire when it happened -- I soured on him later.  But in either case, they aren't the traditional GM.  I don't like the idea of a HC running personnel but do prefer it over the arrangement we got now.  This team has mostly functioned with a non-traditional GM under Dan.  And we've been mostly a loser.  I doubt that's a coincidence. 

 

I agree with your comments about Kyle Smith and Gruden.  That's my hope, too. 

[CommanderDOOM]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

.....saying you know I was student of the month about two decades ago.

 

 

 

More like Ken Caminiti being mvp. Nobody's saying he's top shelf but some act like he smacked their sister.....all because he wouldn't cave to their favorite qb and his agent. He's a money man but If he's been picking our players he's done ok. Who had final say??

Plus, how out of  1 side of the boca can we say Snyder does this and that blah blah but out the other side Allen is the source of our troubles.

And already ****ting on Doug just because Bruce hired him. When/If everything goes good what will they say??

[goskins10]

37 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

More like Ken Caminiti being mvp. Nobody's saying he's top shelf but some act like he smacked their sister.....all because he wouldn't cave to their favorite qb and his agent. He's a money man but If he's been picking our players he's done ok. Who had final say??

Plus, how out of  1 side of the boca can we say Snyder does this and that blah blah but out the other side Allen is the source of our troubles.

And already ****ting on Doug just because Bruce hired him. When/If everything goes good what will they say??

 

And this is where you are completely wrong. Does it have a big impact? Of course. But to say peoples problems with Bruce are only because of not paying Kirk? That's pure fabrication. Also, very few are saying Bruce Allen is the sole source. Dan Snyder owns this - completely. He is the owner. I have not seen where people are blaming just Bruce. In fact Dan owns more of it than Bruce. But that does not absolve Bruce. 

 

Let's start with Kirk. Ok, they didn't/don't see him as the answer. That's fine. I disagree but I don't get to make the decisions. But instead of costing the team all this money ($44M over 2 years) for a QB you don't really want, move him and get something for him. Starting QBs are the hottest commodity in the NFL. And Bruce managed to get nothing - absolutely ZERO for him. Kirk will eventually hit the open FA market - should be in a few weeks unless he continues this ignorance. And on top of that he spent resources to replace him to get a guy 4 yrs older. Now I like Alex. This is not nor has it ever been about Alex directly. I stated day one I do not hate the deal on it's own merits. But its how they got to this point forcing such a move and that they got nothing - NOTHING - for Kirk and used resources to get Alex that is infuriating. And you are paying Alex about what you likely could have had Kirk for last off-season - at least pretty close - and you gave up a 3rd draft pick and a very good young prospect in Fuller. Contract wise it boiled down to the team wanted a 2 yr deal and Kirk wanted 3 yrs guaranteed. The team needed to take another shot. It was not until days before the deadline that Kirk decided not to negotiate at all. Should he have at least responded? Probably. But Bruce had to take another more realistic shot. That aside, time and again throughout this entire ordeal with Kirk Bruce has made poor choices. Much of it appears he let his ego get in the way. But that's just my speculation. What's not speculation is his extraordinarily poor handling of this entire fiasco with Kirk - both in the room and publicly, especially the stupid press release. Good grief what was he thinking!!! And why not go the young QB with Colt starting a few years? This trade reeks of CYA to save his job - but putting the long term health of the team at risk. 

 

And let's look at the roster he has built. Is it better than years past? Yes. But it's set up to be average. He keeps bargain shopping, which is fine in some cases. But you need balance. Spend a few more $M and you get the NT the team needs. How about a legit RB? That continues to be a miss - although at least they have tried. Maybe Perrine turns out - he has the best chance of who is on the team. Injuries played a huge role last year. I have chronicled that several times. So maybe the roster is in better shape. And if so, I will be glad to be wrong. If they get to 10 wins with Alex - regardless of what Kirk does, then you have to say Bruce has done a better job than given credit for and that the injuries had a huge impact. BTW: I am one that once Kirk is gone, I will not root against him, but I don't care what he does where he goes. I wish him well unless he is playing us. Other than that he is no longer a Redskin so it makes no difference to me. But until they actually do win 10+ games - as Bill Parcells once stated - you are what your record is. 

 

Ok the draft. I do not hate the drafts under him. But you have to admit that these last 4 yrs likely had a huge influence from Scot. He was contracted in 2014. Was the draft expert in 2015 and 2016 and his board was largely used in 2017. For 2014 and 2017, Bruce certainly gets some credit - Scot or no Scot. You have to pull the trigger on who is there. But let's not act like he knocked it out of the park. 

 

And then there is the Scot thing. Maybe Scot returned to drinking. I was not in the room. But it all just seems a bit too convenient to me. But more importantly, had he hired a true GM - either someone up and coming or an experienced GM - I would have been fine. But again his ego would not allow it. He wants to prove he is a "football guy"! But it was all handled extremely poorly. 

 

Finally, the coaching searches.On the one hand he does not get enough credit for bringing some very good assistants to the team. Callaghan, Manusky, Torrian Gray, Jim Tomsula. But on the other hand many of his searches seem very incomplete. Sorry, hiring Doug Williams was a joke. Doug is one of my favorite players and I have been fortunate enough to meet him. But there is nothing in his post playing history to suggest he can truly evaluate NFL level talent. He was decent at Grambling but let's face it - much of that was history and the reputation of the schools program, and it''s college not NFL. But again, the entire process was handled poorly. They act like they are going through a process but really do not. If you don't want to go through the real process of interviewing people - fine. Just man up and say that. Don't play games. It's really irritating. Also, It would be nice to at least once try a standard FO and coaching structure - GM and play calling OC anyone?

 

Bruce is a good money man. Despite what some of his more fervent detractors believe, it is he not Shaffer that is responsible for how they manage the CAP. Shaffer takes his direction from Bruce. He just draws up the contracts per Bruce's specifications and makes sure they are legal. Bruce does a good job here. And if he would just do that - get a qualified GM, manage the CAP, and get out of everyone else's way I would be fine with it. Oh and let's add in the stadium negotiations - which is right up his alley. That's what I thought he was being brought here for in 2011. Instead of he has gone way out of his skill set - IMO - and tried to be Mr. GM. Can he keep the team around 0.500? Probably. Although - and I know some like to act like it means nothing to other players - but his handling of Kirk absolutely will have an impact on potential FAs. If you are looking for a job and you have friends that either work for or have worked for a company you are looking at and they say "Hey that place is a pit! Stay away!" You can't tell me that you make that your first choice. Maybe you still decide to go there. But more than likely you look elsewhere. And in the NFL, it is a tight fraternity. Do people really think they do not talk to each other to get some idea of how the organization is run? Not to mention look for them selves? I still say that's just not a realistic look at things. I know for a fact that I have steered people away from some places of work and towards another based on my personal experience. Do they always take my advice? No. But they generally do. The point is, saying that pier feedback and how an organization is viewed to having dealt with other players has little to no effect where players decide to play is pretty much burying your head in the sand and hoping good things happen just because you want them to. With that approach you really need to learn to live with disappointment. Of course since Dan bought the team that's more a general requirement for all Redskins fans.

 

Again, saying this is all about not paying Kirk ignores a great many other parts of why many are just tired of the Bruce Allen show. Kirk is more the icing on the cake than the cake itself. 

[Wildbunny]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

But it's set up to be average. He keeps bargain shopping, which is fine in some cases. But you need balance. Spend a few more $M and you get the NT the team needs. How about a legit RB?

That's one of the huge problem I have with Bruce.

He's cheap when dealing with Kirk Cousins, he's not when dealing with Alex Smith.

He's cheap when dealing with Kirk Cousins, he's not when dealing with Terrell McClain. Someone that didn't even impressed his HC enough to remember him...

Which leads me to the conclusion that Bruce has absolutely no vision as to how run a team. Signing Norman was a good move at the time being. Now we should have send Norman instead of Fuller to KC in a take it or leave it offer.

 

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Finally, the coaching searches.On the one hand he does not get enough credit for bringing some very good assistants to the team. Callaghan, Manusky, Torrian Gray, Jim Tomsula.

I'm not ready to give him credit here. I'm mostly giving Gruden credit here as I believe coaches are paying more attention to the HC than the GM or TP when they sign somewhere.

[FrFan]

"Bruce is not a talent evaluator...he relies on his coach and scouts to make draft picks. Instead, he is a free agent and salary cap guy." Link

 

“Bruce thinks sometimes he’s smarter than the agents,” Lombardi said. “And the agents called his bluff every time. And they never really bought into Kirk Cousins that he was ever going to do it and they thought they were being cute. And now, all of a sudden, their cuteness is going to cost them a lot of money." Michael Lombardi

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

More like Ken Caminiti being mvp.

 

Apples to oranges.  Caminiti actually played baseball.  Instead it would be like touting the bat boy.  (hyperbole to make a point on my end)  Bruce is a non-personnel guy and you are touting him for personnel -- for a very good season that his team had almost 20 years ago -- mind you in a career where his teams were on the aggregate losers.

 

8 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Nobody's saying he's top shelf but some act like he smacked their sister....

 

I agree making your favorite football team a laughing stock isn't as bad as smacking a close relative.

 

8 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

.all because he wouldn't cave to their favorite qb and his agent.

 

This makes my point I made earlier.  I have noticed almost every person who has Bruce's back -- to them it centers on Kirk.  If Bruce didn't have Kirk to kick around, I don't think he'd have any fan support.

 

8 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Plus, how out of  1 side of the boca can we say Snyder does this and that blah blah but out the other side Allen is the source of our troubles.

 

 

You can have two problems on the same ship.  Bruce and Dan don't have to be mutually exclusive.  

 

8 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

When/If everything goes good what will they say??

 

Speaking of Dan, I think that would be the manta here.  Look you think I am a dummy to fire John Schneider and Marty to hire back Cerrato.  Put Shanny and Bruce who were canned in Tampa and Denver for what happened with personnel under their watch in charge of personnel here? No one talks about Doug around the league as anything special on the personnel front but he's our man -- and the idea that beat guys have said for years no one has Bruce's back at Redskins Park more than Doug -- is just pure coincidence. 

 

Let all those other teams sign top rep Gms and personnel guys and lets see who has the last laugh?   Unfortunately, Dan hasn't had the last laugh, yet.  But I agree with your point if Dan finally gets lucky after almost 20 years with one of his weird GM set ups we should give him props.

 

I am not one of the people on the board who can't admit I am wrong.  I've done it from time to time.   And yeah nothing would make me happier than seeing hey people were touting the Browns hire of Dorsey but it should have been instead for that personnel genius Doug Williams as the Redskins hoist the SB trophy. 

 

Or you guys were mocking Bruce about finally studying tape and wanting to finally be considered a football guy as he approaches 60.  But he's become one of those unique late bloomer career geniuses for the ages.   I'd love it, I really would.  But its very doubtful. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 If Bruce didn't have Kirk to kick around, I don't think he'd have any fan support.

 

On the money.

 

A good portion of the AntiKirks just so happen to be the ones significantly stretching reality in an effort to support Bruce.

 

After all, Bruce is here and “Kirk doesn’t want to be here”.  It’s very personal for some people.  

 

 

 

 

[SWFLSkins]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing about Bruce is have we ever heard about him scouting anyone?  This or that move was based on Bruce's film review, etc?  That was Mike Lombardi's point about Bruce in the Raiders FO -- Bruce worked there with him but Bruce didn't do personnel, that wasn't his thing.   He's an ex-agent not an ex-scout.

 

The most personnel related thing I've heard about Bruce is Chris Russell saying recently he heard that Bruce hates it that he's not considered a football guy so has started watching tape more seriously, etc.

 

If I had to say the #1 thing that befuddles me about the few Bruce supporters is its hard to argue Bruce is a personnel guy at all -- so why would you want him overseeing personnel?  Forgot all the incompetence and PR disasters under his watch -- why would I want a non-personnel guy running that department and having ultimate calls on personnel?    When I have issues with the electricity in my house -- I don't call my accountant to deal with it - I call an electrician.   

 

 

Hmmm, might not be a bad idea tho....LOL> find out how much money you got to fix the problem..... Or could do the oppo....call an electrician to fix your money problems. Shocking thought. 

 

It seems to me that this FA period and draft is going to be telling as to where or where not DW fits in, how much power does Scott Campbell and even Gruden have on the makeup of the roster. Because surely if Allen is making the calls or has the final say, most influence.... we as fans are ****ed for the foreseeable future. 

[seantaylor=god]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

On the money.

 

A good portion of the AntiKirks just so happen to be the ones significantly stretching reality in an effort to support Bruce.

 

After all, Bruce is here and “Kirk doesn’t want to be here”.  It’s very personal for some people.  

 

 

 

 

 

The blind allegiance is fascinating.

 

When holding a rapidly appreciating asset not under a long term contract,a smart GM does the following:

 

A. Project the player and sign a long term deal,which may seem large at the time, but ultimately is a steal. 

 

B. Know you will not keep the player long term so work out a trade for players or picks.

 

OR

 

C. Sign the player to huge one year deals, lowball them on long term deals, and ultimately get next to nothing. (a late third a year from now- which is essentially a 4th-5th). Sign a comparable, older player who may or may not fit your scheme to a large contract and also give up a starter and a pick.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Hmmm, might not be a bad idea tho....LOL> find out how much money you got to fix the problem..... Or could do the oppo....call an electrician to fix your money problems. Shocking thought. 

 

It seems to me that this FA period and draft is going to be telling as to where or where not DW fits in, how much power does Scott Campbell and even Gruden have on the makeup of the roster. Because surely if Allen is making the calls or has the final say, most influence.... we as fans are ****ed for the foreseeable future. 

 

Just a guess on my end.  But here's my prediction.   Look we here aren't personnel guys either.  Nonetheless, anyone of us can hit FA and come up with a big signing or two.  We know the names.  Ditto the early rounds of the draft.  So when the team signs a big name FA or two -- some will be like, see, see, see.  Hey Doug signed Albert Wilson or Paul Richardson.  He's not so bad is he?  Oh look he drafted, Vita Vea.  Genius!    It's really tough not to pull off taking a big name or two in FA and in the first three rounds of the draft.  

 

IMO the better GM's find the studs in the later rounds and get most of their signings right.  And as for the early rounds unless you make a head turning crazy move -- we are all going to likely like the picks.   As for how it actually plays out that's a different story.   But yeah I expect vindication type of posts coming on this thread from the ones who like Bruce-Doug in their roles.    The thing is it will be premature.  

 

As I am typing this I am hearing the Redskins aren't going to have anyone talk at the combine at least officially which is rare for an NFL team.   For a team that is so determined to do things different.  They really like to hide from their fan base-public.  It doesn't show confidence to me but insecurity.  It seems like they think Jay is the only dude who can talk on his feet in that building.

 

From what I've heard in bits and pieces from beat guys I think the FO might be like this:  Doug is a figurehead mostly.   He's more about big names in FA if anything, not much of a draft guy.  Santos-Jay hit FA -- that's where Bruce likely involves himself with a little Doug sprinkled in.  The draft mostly Kyle-Campbell with a sprinkle of Jay.

 

And like I've said many times, I don't think the FO has a bunch of idiots running around who know nothing about football. I am closer to Cooley's take which I'd sum up as "meh".  The problem is "meh" which doesn't put you on the back of the line, doesn't get you anywhere near the front.  And it drives me nuts that the "meh" seems to be accompanied by a weird arrogance at times and flouting the process that other teams use to build winners -- as if the Redskins are some sort of renegade successes like the Patriots. 

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

 

The blind allegiance is fascinating.

 

When holding a rapidly appreciating asset not under a long term contract,a smart GM does the following:

 

A. Project the player and sign a long term deal,which may seem large at the time, but ultimately is a steal. 

 

B. Know you will not keep the player long term so work out a trade for players or picks.

 

OR

 

C. Sign the player to huge one year deals, lowball them on long term deals, and ultimately get next to nothing. (a late third a year from now- which is essentially a 4th-5th). Sign a comparable, older player who may or may not fit your scheme to a large contract and also give up a starter and a pick.

 

 

 

I pretty much agree with your post - so this is not directed at you. 

 

Those defending Bruce and/or Dan have repeatedly stated that the team will get a 3rd rd comp pick for Kirk if he leaves as a URFA. That is anything but a given. The calculations are not a one to one comparison. So while Kirk's contract will be high, it goes into a larger set of parameters including who the teams signs a FA and how much all of them play. A 3rd rd draft pick in 2019 is the absolute maximum they will get. But there are seriously no guarantees they will even get that - not to mention a 3rd rd comp pick is an absolutely pathetic return for a legitimate NFL starting QB. Other teams seem to figure out a way to get 1sts, 2nds, 3rds and other draft picks and/or players - you know like a 3rd rd pick this year and a solid young CB!!  

[seantaylor=god]

18 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

A 3rd rd draft pick in 2019 is the absolute maximum they will get. But there are seriously no guarantees they will even get that - not to mention a 3rd rd comp pick is an absolutely pathetic return for a legitimate NFL starting QB.

Plus, according to generally recognized draft value a pick a year from now is valued a round lower. So a late, late 3rd (comp picks come after the other picks) is essentially a late, late 4th (or an early 5th). If you even get it!

 

[SkinsFTW]

9 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

When/If everything goes good what will they say??

 

Glad Snyder finally sold the team.

 

 

[CommanderDOOM]

@ all the antiSkinsFO/proKirk fans.

 

You keep saying I'm pro Bruce. I'm really indifferent about him. I like the idea he is frugal most times but I also think he can be too cheap at times.  I dont think he's the worst. I would have traded Kirk, maybe he thought Kirk wanted to stay.....so yeah he's kind of a dumbass on that front. But no one believes he's worth 30mill so I dont fault him for not crippling the team. Not getting anything for KC...again when he was played, just like others.

 

Now for people to believe that a man who played football, coached football, and has been a scout can't see talent.....These guys are all ? for the past 30 years....plus they have others to help so I'm not fretting on that. People who are are too attached....

 

You think the players are lookin at us not paying KC 30mill per @nd sayin "man I dont wanna go there". Or Kirks word will hold more weight over Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Primetime, DHall, or man who tore his achilles 2twice and the team still stuck with him???

[goskins10]

31 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

@ all the antiSkinsFO/proKirk fans.

 

You keep saying I'm pro Bruce. I'm really indifferent about him. I like the idea he is frugal most times but I also think he can be too cheap at times.  I dont think he's the worst. I would have traded Kirk, maybe he thought Kirk wanted to stay.....so yeah he's kind of a dumbass on that front. But no one believes he's worth 30mill so I dont fault him for not crippling the team. Not getting anything for KC...again when he was played, just like others.

 

Now for people to believe that a man who played football, coached football, and has been a scout can't see talent.....These guys are all ? for the past 30 years....plus they have others to help so I'm not fretting on that. People who are are too attached....

 

You think the players are lookin at us not paying KC 30mill per @nd sayin "man I dont wanna go there". Or Kirks word will hold more weight over Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Primetime, DHall, or man who tore his achilles 2twice and the team still stuck with him???

 

Again, not sure if you are missing the point on purpose or just do not get it. I am not being an ass here. It's just that you keep talking about one thing - $30M for Kirk and ignoring all other contributors. 

 

First let me be very clear here - I am not pro or anti anything but the Washington Redskins. In terms of a hobby I have poured heart and soul into this team since 1968. So my criticisms are directly related to how the team is run - not due to a like or dislike of one player or the FO personnel specifically. I have no real emotional attachment to any of them - and that certainly includes Kirk - outside of their time in Washington and their ability to help the team win. Once they are gone - they are gone. I will wish them success but I really don't care one way or the other. For example I was really hoping Robert would do well in Cleveland. He did not but I was not torn up about it. He was not a Redskin anymore. The same with Kirk. I hope he does well (except against us) but ultimately I do not really care. His performance, unless playing against Wash will have no impact on if the Redskins win or lose - which is my one and only real concern. 

 

Again, and again, and again, the problem is not the eventual decision of paying Kirk $30M/yr or not. The problem is that they as the noted experts are supposed to be able to see how this plays out and make more appropriate decisions. Again, the trade itself in a vacuum considering where the team and Kirk were is not horrible. However, how is that you have one of the hottest commodities in the NFL - a legitimate starting QB - and you screw this thing up so bad you get nothing for him and have to give up valuable resources to get his replacement? That is not just a mistake. That is incompetence at the highest level. Then you add the other parts of this - the Scot debacle, poor FA success, general arrogance towards the fans and players (yes if he wins this goes away, but he is not wining!) and I just can't see how you cannot see why people are quite skeptical of the path forward. 

 

As for the other players - first, again, and again, and again it is not just the $30M issue! This has been pretty much a **** run organization for the 19 yrs since Dan bought the team. I have had direct conversations with players from the Gibbs glory days and a few since and to a guy none of them have had much good to say about Dan and how the team is run. The silence from many of the great ex-players speaks volumes to me. 

 

Also, Santana Moss has not been the biggest promoter. He may not talk trash about the team publicly but he is not a huge booster. Portis was highly critical until he started getting paid by the team again. Sanders trashes the team every time he gets a chance. DHall may be the only one who is actively promoting the team. But how much weight does a guy who has not stayed on the field for the last few years and has had zero success going to have? More importantly, there are also current players that will not have good things to say - not to mention there will be ex-college team mates at other teams talking them up. I just saw a picture of Kirk Cousins, Brian Hoyer, and Nick Foles when they were at Michigan State. If you ask those guys, who have collectively played on quite a few teams, where they would go if they had the chance, do you really think the Redskins is the first team out of their mouths? And that's just one example. 

 

Last but not least - just like you do not think that Bruce is great - I was very clear that I do not think Bruce is complete ****. So have many others - which you continue to ignore. The problem is I would like to see this team win a SB before I die. And keeping a guy that's mediocre at best is not going to do it. 

 

Now do I have faith in Dan to hire someone who has those abilities? Not really. But you know you are not going there with this FO. Sooner or later, hopefully Dan will dumb his way into a better situation. And this is where I give Dan his proper share of the blame. I honestly am at the point tat the only way this team gets' the SB again is if Dan sells the team. But we can still hope. 

[CommanderDOOM]

9 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

But we can still hope. 

 

Yes we can.

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Last but not least - just like you do not think that Bruce is great - I was very clear that I do not think Bruce is complete ****. So have many others - which you continue to ignore. The problem is I would like to see this team win a SB before I die. And keeping a guy that's mediocre at best is not going to do it. 

Bruce is a horrible executive.  He sets up a terrible organization structure.

 

his saving grace is that he won’t let the team get upside down financially.  

 

Everything else about him as an executed F-

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

You think the players are lookin at us not paying KC 30mill per @nd sayin "man I dont wanna go there". Or Kirks word will hold more weight over Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Primetime, DHall, or man who tore his achilles 2twice and the team still stuck with him???

 

I don't know about Primetime but 3 out of those 4 people you mention I know love Kirk from segments they've done especially Moss and D. Hall..  I listened to a recent D Hall interview where he said more or less Kirk is going to kill it at the next team.   But some including them think Alex was a good save.  But so what?  Don't get why the obsession with Kirk?  Bruce blew that one anyway you cut it -- keep him, trade him you name the angle.  However, plenty of points have been made on this thread that has nothing to do with Kirk.   

 

Sounds like your point in sum is Bruce is OK.  You don't love, you don't hate him.  You are fine with him at the helm -- we are discounting his qualifications which impress you more than we are impressed.   And most of us would see it just like you if not for that pesky Kirk stuff that made us sour on him.  I can't speak for everyone but I know in my case that's a million miles off.

 

I among others in early 2015 did a letter campaign to Bruce about getting a real GM for a change to run this team.  Kirk wasn't a starter then.  He wasn't even a thought in my mind.  I could give a rats behind about some award Bruce won in Oakland eons ago.  His background was being an agent and a money man.  That's not some off beat thought from some people here.   The same stuff has been said by people who actually worked with the dude.   Guys like Lombardi lying about it?  

 

He's a numbers cruncher, not a scout.  I don't care that's he's been around football.  Dan Snyder's been around football for a long time, too.  So what.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Yes we can.

Which is fine.  Nobody told you not to hope.  We all do.

 

But at the end of the day, how Bruce Allen has addressed the QB position ever since he took office is nothing short of absolute incompetence.  The amount of resources given up and money spent alone is embarrassing. To be left with a 33* year old QB traded by the same guy that fleeced him last time merely seems poetic at this point.  Not because we hate Alex Smith but we hate how he got here.  Like every QB before him, he will probably hate it here himself soon enough.

 

That’s only the QB position.  There are plenty more blunders where that came from.  But this type of failure at the most important position in football alone should be enough to settle any scores in regards to his job performance.  Yet for some reason folks still argue that this crap is either acceptable or someone else’s fault.

 

 

[Peregrine]

Lets be honest, at this point in time and after all that has happened, if you are "indifferent" to Bruce Allen, you are pro-Bruce, because indifference is the nicest view anyone can have of him.

[SkinsFTW]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 But we can still hope. 

 

Like the stubborn kid watching every road runner cartoon because Wile E Coyote has to win eventually, right? 

[CommanderDOOM]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's a numbers cruncher, not a scout.  I don't care that's he's been around football.  Dan Snyder's been around football for a long time, too.  So what.

 

 

"Bruce Allen has no peer when it comes to dealing with the salary cap. He's the expert of experts and he understands the football part of it too, which is rare for cap people. "