The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[JSSkinz]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It is a fantasy but a fun one for me.  I do think the stadium issue looms large and the only wild chance he sells or bolts to a new city pertains to how that unfolds.

Did you hear EB mention something about cash flow issues, I caught just the end of it where he mentioned something about there being reports that in the past the team was short on payroll?  I could have heard it wrong but curious if you caught that part?

 

If Dan has leveraged himself and being that he has already given away 35% of the team if the cash flow issues are real it's possible a sale is not that far fetched.

 

If anyone can screw up a cash cow business like an NFL franchise Dan would be the one.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Of course, and I feel like after all we've endured with Dan, we deserve something like this as fans.  Something that could rejuvenate and unify the fan base.  I believe Dan selling the team would generate more interest than a few years of playoff runs.  

 

Among other things part of pessimism of Dan selling is I'd presume with his ego and being a life long Redskin fan who loves to wrap that story in nostalgia with his dad, etc -- that he'd have a hard time selling the team if he knew (maybe he doesn't, though) that people would be dancing in the streets because the team would finally be unshackled from his incompetence.

 

It's not that I think the stadium situation blows up.  But it feels like a now or never scene as for Dan's ownership because you got the confluence of the team imploding, declining fan attendance, declining TV ratings, fan vitriol at peak levels, fan apathy at peak levels AND lets say they also struggle to get a new stadium...that's a lot to encode.

 

  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Did you hear EB mention something about cash flow issues, I caught just the end of it where he mentioned something about there being reports that in the past the team was short on payroll?  I could have heard it wrong but curious if you caught that part?

 

If Dan has leveraged himself and being that he has already given away 35% of the team if the cash flow issues are real it's possible a sale is not that far fetched.

 

If anyone can screw up a cash cow business like an NFL franchise Dan would be the one.

 

Yep. he said he had to borrow to pay for employee costs, etc.  

 

The other thing with the stadium is this:  not only does he have to secure a site but unless he is willing to self finance it then he's going to likely seek some sort of taxpayer windfall.  So his challenge runs double:  secure a site and find financing.

 

And you got all of this with a backdrop of fans checking out on the team and declining fan and TV attendance. 

 

this might not be a piece of cake for the dude.  That's why for me I think its now or never as for Dan selling.    I am not selling hope that it goes down but it also doesn't seem crazy to me either if the stadium issue isn't going well.  On the other hand, if the stadium is going well we got no chance. 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

I don't know what the league rules are on selling off equity but I can't imagine that he can give away much more than the 35% that has already liquidated.

 

I don't think the taxpayers subsidizing the stadium is even realistic in the current climate so who knows, he might have pinned himself into a corner he can't get out of.

 

Could you imagine if the league put him in cashflow management, that would be the ultimate embarrassment.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't know what the league rules are on selling off equity but I can't imagine that he can give away much more than the 35% that has already liquidated.

 

I don't think the taxpayers subsidizing the stadium is even realistic in the current climate so who knows, he might have pinned himself into a corner he can't get out of.

 

Could you imagine if the league put him in cashflow management, that would be the ultimate embarrassment.

 

 

 

 

As far as I can tell his other business adventures aside from the Redskins have mostly failed.  If I recall way back in the 90s, Cook got about 70 million of the 250 million or so it cost for the stadium from the state of Maryland.

 

I get the value of the franchise continues to grow.  I got no idea though how liquid Dan is.   Many say attendance issues do have some bottom line impact -- loss of concessions, parking, etc.

 

I know i am throwing a hail Mary (and I wouldn't have thought of it at all if not for the Junkies this morning) but if Dan struggles to get a location and or has to self finance the stadium -- he wouldn't be the first dude to throw in the towel.   Heck maybe they become the London Redskins?

 

https://thesidelineobserver.com/2019/02/14/pay-for-your-own-damn-stadium-dan-snyder/

On Tuesday, Dan Snyder and Redskins fans got some bad news. Maryland Governor Larry Hogan informed the team that he would be pulling out of negotiations for a new stadium. D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser echoed a similar sentiment, saying the Skins “would have to build their own stadium.”

 

I was thrilled when I heard the news that DMV lawmakers didn’t give into Snyder’s demands. Ultra-wealthy billionaires demanding that hardworking taxpayers finance their expensive stadiums is one of my biggest pet peeves in sports. From Mark Davis and the Raiders leaving Oakland because the city wouldn’t finance his stadium to the Seattle Supersonics leaving for Oklahoma City, billionaires attempt to hold their host cities hostage in order to fund their lavish stadiums.  

[Brixtion_skin]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I know i am throwing a hail Mary (and I wouldn't have thought of it at all if not for the Junkies this morning) but if Dan struggles to get a location and or has to self finance the stadium -- he wouldn't be the first dude to throw in the towel.   Heck maybe they become the London Redskins?

 

 

Don't say that.  If Dan and the Redskins moved to my home city I don't think I would watch a NFL game again.  In fact my faith in human kind would take a hit it would never recover from!  

 

 

[ntotoro]

Maybe they could move to London and change the name to the London Flecthers... ?

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

https://thesidelineobserver.com/2019/02/14/pay-for-your-own-damn-stadium-dan-snyder/

On Tuesday, Dan Snyder and Redskins fans got some bad news. Maryland Governor Larry Hogan informed the team that he would be pulling out of negotiations for a new stadium. D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser echoed a similar sentiment, saying the Skins “would have to build their own stadium.”

If the only value Bruce Allen brings is in securing the new stadium... well, haven't we heard the bell tolling?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

If the only value Bruce Allen brings is in securing the new stadium... well, haven't we heard the bell tolling?

 

From what Bruce has said publicly, it's clear that he's telling Dan "they are close" to getting a stadium.  But if it remains elusive at some point Bruce gets exposed.  I presume the time is almost up on that front. 

[Burgold]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

From what Bruce has said publicly, it's clear that he's telling Dan "they are close" to getting a stadium.  But if it remains elusive at some point Bruce gets exposed.  I presume the time is almost up on that front. 

"We're close"

 

Where have we heard that before.

[HardcoreZorn]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

Fascinating how this team and 1-8 record is being paraded around as if it’s been the norm the previous 4 years— the team was in contention for the playoffs until the end of seasons. We all know the story, but easily could’ve been a back to back playoff appearances with a Giants week 17 victory. Last year even the most staunchest detractors admit Smith being healthy would’ve had the team in contention in the later weeks. I’m not claiming great ness here, just average to above as far as the win column goes. 

 

It was so fascinating to me that it literally brought me out of the shadows. I had read and lurked this board for years dating back to the Vinny days and loved all the x’s and o’s and quality Redskins discussion. The fan discontent reached peak levels AFTER Snyder’s first back to back winning seasons ever and arguably Snyder’s best 4 year run as owner which is a considerable amount of time in the NFL and 20% of his ownership. Even more fascinating is that the overall sentiment and content on this board was roughly the same at this time last year when we had a two game division lead as it is now when we are heading for a top two pick. 
 

There are of course a select few individuals who will read this and act like I’m some looney toon and how could I possibly not understand that Snyder has owned the team for 20 years and run it into the ground. And it will merely be a waste of their fingers tapping a keyboard, cause as I’ve said all along, I don’t think Snyder is even close to a good owner and I do understand being frustrated over a team that has largely been irrelevant for the entirety of his ownership. But I will never ever ever ever ever understand how the fan base reached this level last year for example. I mean this year? Sure I understand it, were terrible. Gave me a good chuckle BFS was parading around asking where the “defenders” were when we were 0-5. Uhhhhh, there’s nothing left to defend... the few stragglers that crowd likes to point out from the past couple years were really only pointing out we had reached average levels of competence, yet experiencing tremendous amounts of backlash..from our own fan base. 
 

Question of the day, if you switch the last 10 years with 2000-2009, same sentiment going on? 
 

 

Quote

For example, my Raider buddy is geeked about being in playoff contention going into week 10, my Colts friend at work has enjoyed being above average and in the thick of the AFC South race, My Carolina Panthers neighbor skips while getting his mail, and the waiter a Buffalo Wild Wings who wears an Eagles jersey remains hopeful the season could lead to a playoff spot. 

(This has been the Skins life for the previous 4 years, yes average to above in some weeks, but in the race with reason to watch). 
 

Im in support a change is needed in the FO this year, but I can’t get behind Dan has been a complete idiot to give Gruden and Bruce the last 3 years. I also won’t argue any fan who says that the current FO and Gruden were unable to get past being average and that being enough reason for change.  For me, last year was the end all be all, so I do believe this year was wasted. A new vision and path should’ve been created last off season. 

I’m with ya, it’s totally time for a change, if for nothing else some goodwill with the fan base. But I’ve sort of reached the realization this fan base I was once so proud to be a part of is no longer the case for me. Even if we start ripping off Super Bowls and the majority stops spending their days celebrating brewery’s for making beers that rip their favorite franchise and instead goes back to supporting the team, I will never forget what this fan base became. It’s some serious trash, just like the product on the field we are currently watching. I will say, and will continue to say , the next regime walking in is inheriting an infinitely better situation than the one Shanny inherited post Vinny. 

[London Kev]

1 hour ago, Brixtion_skin said:

 

Don't say that.  If Dan and the Redskins moved to my home city I don't think I would watch a NFL game again.  In fact my faith in human kind would take a hit it would never recover from!  

 

 

 

I've often wondered, did you misspell Brixton, or does Brixtion mean something else?

[The Rook]

50 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

Maybe they could move to London and change the name to the London Flecthers... ?

 

 I see what you did there.

 

Then get the Chargers (or expansion)  and become the Washington Warpath.

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[nonniey]

22 minutes ago, The Rook said:

 

 I see what you did there.

 

Then get the Chargers (or expansion)  and become the Washington Warpath.

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Nah if the Redskins were to move pull a Cleveland plan and keep the history in DC. So the Chargers or the expansion team would become the Washington Redskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

I wished I lived in the DMV.  I'd be there for that.  Be funny if anyone brings some to tailgate at Fedex -- they almost for sure would get media coverage.

 

In my opinion, any fan who goes the extra mile to make a point in an effort to get change even if that effort is likely futile are great Redskins fans.    A lot of Redskin fans seem to have checked out.   But some haven't and that's cool. 

 

 

 

[bh32]

I don't think Bruce is gonna be kept after this year..Snyder has to know that this is it for him to try and bring a positive vibe back and keeping Bruce just isn't gonna do that.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I don't think Bruce is gonna be kept after this year..Snyder has to know that this is it for him to try and bring a positive vibe back and keeping Bruce just isn't gonna do that.

 

I hope you are right.  Sheehan thinks this.  But he thought it last year too and was wrong.  I noticed the fire Bruce Allen movement along with a petition is heating up again on twitter.  

 

I think Dan-Bruce are headed for some even rougher waters in the next month or two unless they catch a break somehow.    Speaking of the stadium, if I were them and I was anywhere close to securing it (I do have doubts that they are close) -- I'd really go to town on it and try secure it this year in part to change the debate that's going on right now about the team.    

[bh32]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hope you are right.  Sheehan thinks this.  But he thought it last year too but was wrong.  I noticed the fire Bruce Allen movement along with a petition is heating up again on twitter.  

 

I think Dan-Bruce are headed for some even rougher waters in the next month or two.    Speaking of the stadium, if I were them and I was anywhere close to securing it (I do have doubts that they are close) -- I'd really go to town on it and try secure it this year in part to change the debate that's going on right now about the team.    

This year just seems like fans are pissed off more and the media and other outlets are just hammering the redskins right now..Snyder is is on thin ice right now and if he dosen't fire Bruce he will be ran out of town.

[bh32]

Fans basically want to lynch Bruce's ass right now and if Snyder dosen't do something he is gonna be next.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, bh32 said:

This year just seems like fans are pissed off more and the media and other outlets are just hammering the redskins right now..Snyder is is on thin ice right now and if he dosen't fire Bruce he will be ran out of town.

 

In theory I agree.  But Dan is a weird and incompetent dude.  But I agree all the fans who are pissed off and are taking action on it -- is the only chance (granted remote) for anything to happen.   Like I said the one wild subplot here is the stadium.  I doubt fan outcry on its own moves the needle much with Dan but wonder about that coupled with the stadium (if they are struggling to get it) might in combination.  I guess I could dream...😀 

[SkinsFTW]

All this and we're not even close to Dan's crazy Al Davis years yet.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hope you are right.  Sheehan thinks this.  But he thought it last year too and was wrong.  I noticed the fire Bruce Allen movement along with a petition is heating up again on twitter.  

 

I think Dan-Bruce are headed for some even rougher waters in the next month or two unless they catch a break somehow.    Speaking of the stadium, if I were them and I was anywhere close to securing it (I do have doubts that they are close) -- I'd really go to town on it and try secure it this year in part to change the debate that's going on right now about the team.    

Nah.  He will give Bruce a 10 year extension and Bruce will hire another Tampa/Oakland puppet.

[FrFan]

RANK 32

REDSKINS (1-8)

Previous rank: No. 31

Give the Redskins this: They know how to get it over with. Washington lost for the third straight week -- and for the third straight week under interim coach Bill Callahan, the game ended in well under three hours. This is happening because of Washington's unwavering commitment to the run with unsteady rookie Dwayne Haskins behind center. The Redskins have run the ball on 51.9 percent of plays since Week 6, when Callahan took over for the fired Jay Gruden; they only ran on 31.2 percent of plays in the season's first five weeks. This shift in philosophy has not led to greater success. In fact, the Redskins have now gone three straight weeks without scoring a touchdown, a first for the team since 1950. You have to go all the way back to 2008 to find the last team to accomplish that "feat" -- the Romeo Crennel-led Cleveland Browns. This is not the company you want to keep.

[hailer21]

13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 I don’t think Snyder is even close to a good owner and I do understand being frustrated over a team that has largely been irrelevant for the entirety of his ownership. But I will never ever ever ever ever understand how the fan base reached this level last year for example. 

 

Question of the day, if you switch the last 10 years with 2000-2009, same sentiment going on? 

 

Switch the decades and the sentiment is exactly the same, if not a little worse. Yeah, Snyder has tamed a bit from 2000s but the dysfunction has sustained into the 2010s. 20 years of embarrassing PR, poor results, weird roster decisions, zero accountability...you know the rest. 

 

There is a pattern of poo since he's owned the team and folks like myself have concluded there is no reason to root for his team because it represents something entirely different than what was rooted for prior to his ownership. The nail in the coffin is I see ZERO signs that he has the competence to break his own pattern of dysfunction. 

 

If you wipe your memory of all prior snafus and go into each season thinking "this could be our year", I can see how you'd be confused as to why seemingly so many fans were down/checked out of a team that started out 6-3 last year. I just dont think that way though - maybe you do?

 

Now, last year's start was a little fraudulent because the plodding offense wasn't competitive against teams that could score so that team probably would've led nowhere had it made the playoffs with a healthy Alex Smith BUT I wasn't worried about that, not one bit! I was confident the 20 year Snyder pattern would play itself out. 

 

Coming into that season, the team was fresh off the Kirk fiasco. The team got nothing for a decent QB while paying top dollar for his services. Year before that was kicked off by the SMC fiasco. Before that you had the RG3 fiasco, and the stupid pattern goes on and on.

 

I've checked out of rooting for wins because I'm convinced no one wins with Snyder at the helm and the only way I see the pattern breaking is he sells the team. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen soooooo I've decided to just check out in the meantime.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, hailer21 said:

 

Switch the decades and the sentiment is exactly the same, if not a little worse. Yeah, Snyder has tamed a bit from 2000s but the dysfunction has sustained into the 2010s. 20 years of embarrassing PR, poor results, weird roster decisions, zero accountability...you know the rest. 

 

 

I've made the point on this thread previously about Bruce being slightly better than Cerrato.  And Dan still stinks but he's improved on some fronts.  I feel less good about both points over time.

 

There are 4 key points IMO you can't escape that make the last 10 years feel worse or at the minimum the same

 

A.  The record is worse.  Yeah I know there are gazillion excuses for it.  And hey what about our 3 magic years of mediocrity in that mix, when has Dan done that before?  Or what if this guy or that guy wasn't hurt?  Yeah whatever.  There is ALWAYS context for losing for every team.  They all have the if and buts were candy and nuts reasons.  And as for the injury component to it as kdawg likes to say, ditto FO homer C. Casserly if your team relies on stars who are injury prone -- you are playing on thin ice.

 

B.  The sleaze and low road stuff.  It hasn't changed really in either tenure.  But at least in the first run we had Joe Gibbs to class the organization up.  If anything Bruce has made it worse because while Vinny was incompetent -- he was likable.  Bruce struggles with that at least in some quarters. As Sheehan said the other day when he talks to ex-players he knows, they liked Vinny but some he's spoken to didn't like Bruce exception being Cooley in his circle.

 

C. More detachment from fans and seem even more delusional.  Heck Dan would at least come out of his shell with Vinny and they'd do the predraft pressers which I think where Dan's best moments oddly enough because he wasn't that bad publicly.   They'd at least explain themselves.  And for all of Vinny's ineptness -- you wouldn't have as many comments that would rub us the wrong way as for the team being delusional -- winning off the field, culture is damned good, we are close.  

 

D.  It's 10 more years of this piled on the previous 10.  It's not like we've had a break from Dan and his punch line level lieutenants.   20 years of anything is harder than 10 years.  I am too hardcore of a fan to break.  But plenty have broken and checked out.  I gather some of the FO homers left seem to think the haters are the issue.  They IMO are dead wrong.  If you want the haters gone then you lose basically 95% of the fan base.  The opposite of love is indifference not anger.  Anger = passion = caring.   Wanting a regime to change and voicing that opinion IMO is the definition of a good fan.  

 

Some like to say we have had it better than the Bills, Browns, Lions or name that struggling franchise for a long time so why are we more upset than them?  I think they are 100% wrong and its not even close.  Because the #1 thing you can sell for a struggling team is hope.  All those teams have had ownership changed and GM changes.   We've been stuck with the same owner and mostly 2 GM's who have been mocked as the worst in the league.  It's no comparison.  If we were on a new owner, and they hired a highly regarded GM and we were still dissatisfied -- that would be apples to apples to those teams.  And obviously that hasn't happened.  

 

I get those that say well we were 7-9. 8-7-1, 9-7 can't we celebrate that or say its progress?  I get the point to an extent.  But those teams never felt great or poised to be great.  And I think I can deal with that much better if it didn't come with the sleaze and delusional statements and the seeming detachment from the fans.   But the kicker is plenty weren't surprised that the mediocre run was followed by a nose drive.  I actually wasn't among that group, I thought the mediocrity would just stick to mediocrity.   But plenty didn't think they were on the verge of squat.  The NFL is actually is set up for teams to be mediocre.  But I also didn't think it was that far removed from the first 10 years.  They had 3 playoff runs pre Bruce.  They had 2 playoff runs with Bruce.  It doesn't move the needle from me that hey instead of going 5-11 on the bad year we went 7-9.  to me its whatever.  but more importantly the process and feel for it is just as ugly now as it was 10 years ago.  And that's not on the fans, that's on Dan and the culture.