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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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You know how you can tell the draft has gone well so far?...Nobody came to this thread to say "See, I told you so" lol..

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I feel a reversal coming.

 

This thread is going to turn into a Bull market. 

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Grades don't mean much right now, but I literally "lol'd" at seeing Snyder's face in this video lol...it was a bit unnerving.

 

 

 

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Damn! Love that vid. They did a great job tonight. They got 2 potential gamechangers on Offense and Defense from the 15th slot and the 26th. 

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Posted (edited)

I don’t hate what they did last night at all.  My issue with the Haskins rumors was two things:

 

Trading up to get him, which they didn’t have to do.  Can’t argue taking him at 15.

 

Jay not appearing to be a big fan and this being Dan’s deal.  That still up in the air and we will never really know anyways.

 

Definitely like getting Sweat.

 

Time will tell if it turns to dung like most everything either Dan or Bruce gets their hands on.

 

 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t hate what they did last night at all.  My issue with the Haskins rumors was two things:

 

Trading up to get him, which they didn’t have to do.  Can’t argue taking him at 15.

 

Jay not appearing to be a big fan and this being Dan’s deal.  That still up in the air and we will never really know anyways.

 

Definitely like getting Sweat.

 

Time will tell if it turns to dung like most everything either Dan or Bruce gets their hands on.

 

 

 

yeah, had the Skins traded up to #3 and drafted Haskins this thread would be on page 1,972 by now lol...and I would have been leading the criticism charge. It would have taken a special kind of stupid to do that.

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7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

You know how you can tell the draft has gone well so far?...Nobody came to this thread to say "See, I told you so" lol..

Thats because it would be really foolish to do that before they have played a down in the NFL.

 

Kind of because of that Tom Brady fellow and that Ryan Leaf fellow.  You may have heard of them?

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Credit where it's due...dating back to last year's draft, the Redskins have added the following first-round-graded players to the roster (only one of which has suited up in the regular season): 

 

Payne

Guice

Foster

Haskins

Sweat 

 

If nothing else, the top-end talent level is rising which can only help the roster. 

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The Redskins defense will be good..I'm standing by a top ten defense...

 

And be honest...who keeps forgetting we have foster too?..I do haha..can't wait for training camp now!!!

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53 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Thats because it would be really foolish to do that before they have played a down in the NFL.

1

 

Um...we're talking about the same ES, right? lol...

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I love the value of a draft as much as anyone but celebrating the success of it before the season starts is a bit premature IMO.    It's practically a cliche joke about how comical it is that teams even get draft grades right away because how the heck do we know until the movie starts.   But to the point, I think there college scouting is the best part of the FO.  We typically do feel good about the drafts.  The issue IMO is pro personnel. 

 

As for Bruce, I've praised his moves plenty of times (believe it or not for those who have seen me blast him). Heck i even helped lead the parade in defending him on the Scot issue.  Every move they make I like I applaud.  Every move I don't like i pan.  And heck I even lay out what I want and don't want almost always before it happens and I don't backtrack from my positions in terms of Bruce.

 

Judging Bruce to me is all about the total picture.  How does everything add up.  Good-bad-indifferent.  To me he represents so so with sleaze.  I can live with him much more if it was so so without the sleaze.

 

Heck I am even consistent to say if Bruce ever gets this team to be a real winner, I'll say he's figured it out.  I put my neck out like that before each season.  It hasn't burned me yet.  But hopefully one year it finally does.  😀  But until that happens i am not grading him on a curve as to what if that happened or this happened then they'd be 11-5.  Or don't you like some of their moves?  Yeah I always like some of their moves.  i even liked some of Cerrato's moves too. 

 

Just go 11-5 and I'll be happy to praise Bruce.  Not pretend 11-5.  Not a what if version.  Not the they are making real progress in Bruce's 11th year.  The real thing.  You'd think the law of averages will eventually kick in and it goes down just by sheer luck.  Aren't we like the only team in the NFL in like 20 plus years or something crazy that hasn't surpassed 10 wins?  Heck you know what I'd even pat him on the back if he can match Dan's high water mark of 10-6. 😀  

 

  

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just go 11-5 and I'll be happy to praise Bruce.  Not pretend 11-5.  Not a what if version.  Not the they are making real progress in Bruce's 11th year.  The real thing.  You'd think the law of averages will eventually kick in and it goes down just by sheer luck.  Aren't we like the only team in the NFL in like 20 plus years or something crazy that hasn't surpassed 10 wins?  Heck you know what I'd even pat him on the back if he can match Dan's high water mark of 10-6. 😀  

 

 

 

11-5.  That's the life.  There's absolutely no reason to think we have the ability to go 11-5.   11-5 means you're an excellent team with the potential to achieve sustained success.  Thing is, Bruce says we're "close."  Just a few injuries away from the playoffs.  "Close" to him means a wildcard berth and a loss on the road in week one.   

 

The last time the Redskins won 11 games or more was 1991, the longest streak in the NFL by far.  I looked into this a few months ago during a slow day at work and it was actually pretty remarkable.  It drove home how our sustained mediocrity over all the years is so unusual. 

 

The last time these other bad teams won 11 games?

Lions 2014

Bills 1999

Browns 1994

 

What amazed me was when I took a lot at some random teams -- teams we don't think of as either excellent or awful -- and counted how many times they've won 11 games or more in a season since Snyder bought the team.  

 

Niners - 4

Titans - 4

Tampa - 2

Vikings - 4

 

Then there's our division

 

Eagles 7

Giants 4

Cowboys 3

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I love the value of a draft as much as anyone but celebrating the success of it before the season starts is a bit premature IMO.   

 

 

I think most are celebrating the talent acquired and the way in which it was acquired (no trading up for Haskins, acceptable compensation for trading up for Sweat, apparently spooking the Giants into using #6 for Jones instead of #17 lol)...Most on this thread would have laughed off the idea of "Bruce and Dan" being described as patient enough to wait for their guy or smart enough to bamboozle the Giants. I mean, Allen is ranked as the worst GM in the league lol...well, what goes along with that is a low bar to jump over. For right now, at least, they sailed over it.

 

Edited by Califan007

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I probably shouldn't post this here since everybody is going to bed, but i have a theory on Dan Snyder. 

So everybody in the fan base was not caring about the team. Most of us didn't care about the draft one but. I was of the opinion that I didn't want a QB, but if we got one I wanted Haskins. But the media was saying that Dan wanted Haskins to excite the fan base. 

 

So we fast forward to Monday and suddenly a story "leaks" out saying that Snyder is going to trade up, that Dan's taking over the draft room, etc. And many of us fans were like, yeah that's the Skins, and we were at best just hoping it wasn't true, but none of us could have any confidence because at know this team and Dan's past. 

 

So Thursday comes and we don't trade up and that's enough to bring some life into the fan base because we got "our guy". But the discussion is mostly about us not being stupid instead of how good our bad he is.

 

And Galdi said earlier that this move isn't going to excite the base alone, but it already has. I know myself and my family has gone from not caring to watching the draft with excitement. Others were saying they were going to go to more games this year. 

 

This may be an act of genius by Dan

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I probably shouldn't post this here since everybody is going to bed, but i have a theory on Dan Snyder. 

So everybody in the fan base was not caring about the team. Most of us didn't care about the draft one but. I was of the opinion that I didn't want a QB, but if we got one I wanted Haskins. But the media was saying that Dan wanted Haskins to excite the fan base. 

 

So we fast forward to Monday and suddenly a story "leaks" out saying that Snyder is going to trade up, that Dan's taking over the draft room, etc. And many of us fans were like, yeah that's the Skins, and we were at best just hoping it wasn't true, but none of us could have any confidence because at know this team and Dan's past. 

 

So Thursday comes and we don't trade up and that's enough to bring some life into the fan base because we got "our guy". But the discussion is mostly about us not being stupid instead of how good our bad he is.

 

And Galdi said earlier that this move isn't going to excite the base alone, but it already has. I know myself and my family has gone from not caring to watching the draft with excitement. Others were saying they were going to go to more games this year. 

 

This may be an act of genius by Dan

 

 

I'll be honest...I actually thought of something really damn similar lol...

 

Half-jokingly, I thought what if Snyder and Allen thought "Let's leak a ridiculous scenario and say Snyder is behind that ridiculous scenario. Get someone to contact Russini and hint the scenario to her ("I dunno, coaches are thinking one way but Snyder is basically taking over what we do in the 1st in my opinion")...then, when that scenario doesn't play out, not only will fans start to dismiss what the media is saying about the team, they'll be so relieved we didn't do what everyone was saying we'd do it would come across as we were measured and smart to stand pat and let the draft come to us. It'll be a win before we even pick anyone! We'll call a few teams just to ask what it would take to move up, so that there's a hint of truth to the leaks--tell the scouts and Jay we're doing it "just in case"...the media will run full steam with a bunch of 'same ol' dysfunctional Redskins lulz' tweets, fans will tweet dumpster fire gifs, and we'll just kick back with some Coors Light, knowing none of it will be proven true. Genius!!" lol...

 

I don't actually think they did all that of course, but I do think some leak shenanigans took place to muddy the waters, if for no other reason than to get the Giants and Dolphins guessing harder. 

Edited by Califan007

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It's possible that this front office will pull off three good drafts in a row. However, we need to see that on the field. Good drafts combined with endless 7-9 seasons isn't good enough.

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On 4/26/2019 at 2:58 AM, Califan007 said:

Grades don't mean much right now, but I literally "lol'd" at seeing Snyder's face in this video lol...it was a bit unnerving.

 

 

 

 

Dan: You just got owned ****es! I selected all the players. Lol.

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I think Brewer wrote something in his article that may have said more than he intended...about the Skins' draft (1st round) he said:

 

"If the pre-draft conversation hadn’t included reports that Snyder and maligned team president Bruce Allen pushed hard for Haskins, the night would have been worthy of mass celebration. Instead, the reaction should be a mix of skepticism about the polarizing manner in which the organization functioned in acquiring Haskins, and enthusiasm that, no matter the method, the franchise improved its talent in two major areas of need."

 

For starters, if the draft decisions were worthy of "mass celebration," then that speaks poorly of those who were against those decisions...not the ones who allegedly "pushed hard" for those decisions to occur. Second, if the owner and team president have to "push hard" for anything, it means they are not running a dictatorial front office in which "what Danny wants, Danny gets" and "Snyder and Allen are in charge, everyone else just works for them"--not to mention, with anyone else in the NFL it would be described as "standing on the table" for a player, which speaks to a strong conviction in that player more than it speaks to forcing people to bend to your personal whims. It reads more as if they were allowing others to have their say--there's no reason to "push hard" if nobody is allowed to put up any kind of resistance to push against--and that nobody "took over" the 1st round...they may have been debating/arguing right up to the start of the draft but that's not exactly some rare occurrence within NFL front offices. I mean, imagine if the story came out that Snyder and Allen kicked everyone out of the draft room 5 days before the draft because they didn't know "who to trust" and told them not to come back until after the draft was done, like what happened with the Raiders lol...

 

Third, that "polarizing" comment by Brewer seems to ignore that, the more often your decisions turn out to be right, the less polarizing your method of decision making become. So let's say this draft (so far) has been 98% due to Bruce and Dan's "polarizing manner"...and then it turns out that Haskins really is a legit franchise QB, Sweat really did help transform just how badass the defense can be, and that "mass celebration" was indeed warranted...that would most likely mean the Skins had a winning record and made the playoffs. Which means Gruden's job security increased significantly. Which means the rest of the coaches' jobs are more secure as well. Which--unless Dan was screaming "I want a black quarterback! Doug was a black quarterback, right? Well, we won a damn Super Bowl with him! So I want another black quarterback! Now!" and slammed the door behind him after he left lol--it means that future discussions/debates where Allen or Snyder may be at odds with others in the FO or coaching staff will be less polarizing, because they've seen first-hand that maybe these two guys have more to offer than temper tantrums and Harvest Festival promotional ideas.

 

I don't buy that there was any kind of chaotic dysfunction going on that, by pure luck, worked out in the end...in a roundabout way, Brewer's comment above helps me think my gut feeling had validity.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/26/2019 at 9:19 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t hate what they did last night at all.  My issue with the Haskins rumors was two things:

 

Trading up to get him, which they didn’t have to do.  Can’t argue taking him at 15.

 

Jay not appearing to be a big fan and this being Dan’s deal.  That still up in the air and we will never really know anyways.

 

Definitely like getting Sweat.

 

Time will tell if it turns to dung like most everything either Dan or Bruce gets their hands on.

 

 

 

Can't put it anymore simpler than this RE Haskins imo. If he fails, it's Snyder. If he succeeds, it's Gruden.

 

I think Gruden was fine with Haskins, but the fact that Snyder was apparently vehemently in favor of this too, likely created that narrative that it was only Snyder. 

 

It was a low hanging fruit report.

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I don't buy that there was any kind of chaotic dysfunction going on that, by pure luck, worked out in the end...in a roundabout way, Brewer's comment above helps me think my gut feeling had validity.

Dysfunction doesn’t necessarily have to be chaotic.  

 

Plus, it’s entirely possible that Dan did indeed “stand on the table” for Haskins. It’s also possible Jay really does like Haskins and just didn’t want to sell that publicly.  The possibilities are endless and frankly, none of us will ever really know.  We can spin things anyway we want to, to try and make sense of it, both ways - making the org look bad or good.  It all depends on your disposition to what’s going on in Ashburn.  At the end of the day, nobody really knows what did or didn’t take place.

 

What can’t be spun or argued, even though folks try to, is a lengthy track record.  Should the way the org does things bear fruit and become respectable with their record, they will get their respect.  They will get to say they were onto something the whole time and everyone that doubted them are the idiots.  Until that time though, they are what history says they are, and that’s why the overwhelming majority view everything with skepticism.  

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Dysfunction doesn’t necessarily have to be chaotic.  

 

Plus, it’s entirely possible that Dan did indeed “stand on the table” for Haskins. It’s also possible Jay really does like Haskins and just didn’t want to sell that publicly.  The possibilities are endless and frankly, none of us will ever really know.  We can spin things anyway we want to, to try and make sense of it, both ways - making the org look bad or good.  It all depends on your disposition to what’s going on in Ashburn.  At the end of the day, nobody really knows what did or didn’t take place.

 

What can’t be spun or argued, even though folks try to, is a lengthy track record.  Should the way the org does things bear fruit and become respectable with their record, they will get their respect.  They will get to say they were onto something the whole time and everyone that doubted them are the idiots.  Until that time though, they are what history says they are, and that’s why the overwhelming majority view everything with skepticism.  

 

1) There were reports (or "reports" lol) that described the Redskins' process as "chaos"...one said something like "Does chaos reign in Washington?"

 

2) My point was that it never gets described as "standing on the table" with Snyder in this case, probably because that makes it seem like he's confident in Haskins and was trying to convince others, where the storyline was consistently that he was "taking over" that decision-making instead of just trying to get others to feel as confident in Haskins as he was.

 

3) Again, for me it's not about proving one way or another what really happened...it's about seeing normal front office activity by the Skins, the kind that happens across the league, consistently characterized in such a overly-dramatic way and presented as more evidence of dysfunction--and then seeing so many have an almost Pavlovian response to view it 100% as "same ol' dysfunctional Redskins".

 

4) The lengthy track record is littered with an abundant amount of things "none of us will ever really know", though...but we act like we do because--and this is the good part lol--"where there's smoke there's fire." Which means any time something like this happens it's thrown on the "smoke/fire" pile and taken as evidence, negating the whole idea of "frankly, none of us will ever really know"...

Edited by Califan007
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On 4/26/2019 at 10:09 AM, bakedtater1 said:

The Redskins defense will be good..I'm standing by a top ten defense...

 

And be honest...who keeps forgetting we have foster too?..I do haha..can't wait for training camp now!!!

 

The Redskins defense has plenty of talent but there are a couple of reasons why Top 10 is a difficult thing for me to envision.   They SHOULD be there, mind you, but we remain a team that has two crucial flaws.   One, the main one, is Manusky.   It isn't even that he's not innovative.   It's that almost every game we looked like we had NO IDEA what the other team was going to do.   We got caught without prep so many times which means other staffs evaluated what we liked to do on defense and changed what they do on offense to surprise us.   Not vice versa.   This was seriously troubling.   Atlanta was the start of it and it was brutal to watch.   I'd be SHOCKED if Manusky can lead a perfectly healthy defense into the Top 10.   Rob Ryan has had disaster defenses, but that's because he wants to go all aggressive even when his teams don't have talent to play that way.   I'd much prefer him calling our plays as with this team we'd be a Top 10 for sure with that.

 

Importantly, but less so, is we remain a team that has a weakness on linebacker level in any sort of coverage.   Kerrigan is horrific, but can KIND of play zone.   Sweat is an athlete and can't be worse than Smith, but I don't imagine he's going to be great this year.   Anderson I'm much more confident in.    Reuben Foster helps our interior quickness but Mason Foster remains a plod horse there.   Hamilton really is a better fit for coverage needs here as he can go a bit more to the side and help with some hope of tight end coverage up the gut.

Given there is always a clear way to attack us it puts stress on us for sure UNLESS we play uber aggressive, which Manusky doesn't do.   Montae is good enough as a free safety in coverage that I don't suspect that's a weakness there.    And I think if Dunbar actually returns fully healthy -- something I worry about with nerve issues -- he's a wonderful, top level corner no one knows about.   But if he's at all limited we are going to have coverage issues we will get bitten by more than a Top 10 defense can prove out to be.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

4) The lengthy track record is littered with an abundant amount of things "none of us will ever really know", though...but we act like we do because--and this is the good part lol--"where there's smoke there's fire." Which means any time something like this happens it's thrown on the "smoke/fire" pile and taken as evidence, negating the whole idea of "frankly, none of us will ever really know"...

I’m talking lengthy track record of facts, not he said-she said.  Neither Dan nor Bruce have any relevance associated with a winning formula.  To the extent it’s comical that they can’t even luck out. So until they do, they are what they have always been.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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