The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

On 3/31/2019 at 7:37 AM, bakedtater1 said:

I'm just curious what kind of bull **** Danny boy tells coaches that come into interview..heck maybe the skins can get to a point where nobody wants to coach here at all forcing Danny to sale.

 

There will always be someone to fill all of the coaching positions, regardless of how great, good or horrible they might be.  Someone is always looking to move up or get another chance, etc.  Worst case is it will no longer be attractive for big name coaches/coordinators, which we have already been there off and on since Gibbs left the first time around.  

 

 

[Burgold]

Ernie Grunfield has been let go from the Wizards. Methinks that means Bruce ought to be looking over his shoulder. 

[alwaysaskin]

On 4/1/2019 at 10:22 AM, JSSkinz said:

I dont know why Jay puts up with it, he could have an O coordinator job immediately and be back in a head coaching position within a couple years.

 

Whats the point of staying if your a dead man walking, I cant imagine its a money thing at this point.

That’s not the way of a Redskins coach in his last season, the way of a Redskins coach is to leak like the Hindenburg. Even Marty Martin the editor of the middle school newspaper will know all the dysfunction that goes on the Front Office by the time Jay is fired

9 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

There will always be someone to fill all of the coaching positions, regardless of how great, good or horrible they might be.  Someone is always looking to move up or get another chance, etc.  Worst case is it will no longer be attractive for big name coaches/coordinators, which we have already been there off and on since Gibbs left the first time around.  

 

 

So the best we can hope for is a coach that at least has the endorsement of being a protein based life form? I have a feeling that we’ll either have a god awful hire like Schiano or a Zorn 2.0. I think the only way the team will sniff a good coach is to overpay big time

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

Ernie Grunfield has been let go from the Wizards. Methinks that means Bruce ought to be looking over his shoulder. 

 

Since I don't really follow the Wizards, why do you say that?...

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 hours ago, Burgold said:

Ernie Grunfield has been let go from the Wizards. Methinks that means Bruce ought to be looking over his shoulder. 

 

i have no idea why it took this long. 

[Burgold]

11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Since I don't really follow the Wizards, why do you say that?...

Just a case of parallelism. Ernie Grunfield had been the GM for a long, long time (I think 16 years). He did some good things and rebuilt the team twice up into respectable teams, but never one that was an honest contender or even an honest runner up. More, he made horrific trades, drafted poorly, and kept applying short term fixes or band-aids to hide real problems.

 

Also similar to Allen, Grunfield has been the source of fan misery and discontent for many years. They have been begging the owner to act and nearly revolted when last year, Grunfield was signed to a secret and unannounced extention.

 

The history of improvement to mediocrity and then worse, the bad trades, poor drafting, and fan disgruntlement comboed with the kind of tenure usually reserved for someone who wins rings makes one think of the Allen and his decade with the Redskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

Talk radio liked running segments who is worse Grunfield or Allen.  So the joke is now (Dukes goofed on this exact point as soon as Grunfield was canned) that now its all Bruce as for DC fan wrath.  Ironically as I was typing this Galdi just goes that he's about to run a segment about Allen predicated on the Grunfield firing.

 

I'd guess Grunfield though has no influence on Dan.  But from a fan wrath point it looks like Bruce will now hog the DC fan disgust or so is the narrative. 

[pcbothwel]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Just a case of parallelism. Ernie Grunfield had been the GM for a long, long time (I think 16 years). He did some good things and rebuilt the team twice up into respectable teams, but never one that was an honest contender or even an honest runner up. More, he made horrific trades, drafted poorly, and kept applying short term fixes or band-aids to hide real problems.

 

Also similar to Allen, Grunfield has been the source of fan misery and discontent for many years. They have been begging the owner to act and nearly revolted when last year, Grunfield was signed to a secret and unannounced extention.

 

The history of improvement to mediocrity and then worse, the bad trades, poor drafting, and fan disgruntlement comboed with the kind of tenure usually reserved for someone who wins rings makes one think of the Allen and his decade with the Redskins.

 

I know what I must do.... I found my purpose...LOL

 

 - Last summer, I said my Goodbyes on the Orioles Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild.

This winter, The Orioles fired everyone and went with a whole new structure with a modern approach/structure/GM

 

 - About 6 weeks ago, I said my Goodbyes on the Wizards Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild/New FO.

Yesterday, EG gets canned and Ted Leonsis said "We will be running a process to review our structure, roles and responsibilities, and think through how we can build an organization for the next chapter of the NBA demands".

 

So here it is guys... I'll give it until about November... maybe ThanksGiving before my required departure to get Bruce Canned... You're Welcome ES    😉

[Wildbunny]

11 minutes ago, pcbothwel said:

 

I know what I must do.... I found my purpose...LOL

 

 - Last summer, I said my Goodbyes on the Orioles Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild.

This winter, The Orioles fired everyone and went with a whole new structure with a modern approach/structure/GM

 

 - About 6 weeks ago, I said my Goodbyes on the Wizards Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild/New FO.

Yesterday, EG gets canned and Ted Leonsis said "We will be running a process to review our structure, roles and responsibilities, and think through how we can build an organization for the next chapter of the NBA demands".

 

So here it is guys... I'll give it until about November... maybe ThanksGiving before my required departure to get Bruce Canned... You're Welcome ES    😉

Damn, you should have quit ten years ago!

 

Maybe Dan Snyder would have sold the team by now!!!

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

Just a case of parallelism. Ernie Grunfield had been the GM for a long, long time (I think 16 years). He did some good things and rebuilt the team twice up into respectable teams, but never one that was an honest contender or even an honest runner up. More, he made horrific trades, drafted poorly, and kept applying short term fixes or band-aids to hide real problems.

 

Also similar to Allen, Grunfield has been the source of fan misery and discontent for many years. They have been begging the owner to act and nearly revolted when last year, Grunfield was signed to a secret and unannounced extention.

 

The history of improvement to mediocrity and then worse, the bad trades, poor drafting, and fan disgruntlement comboed with the kind of tenure usually reserved for someone who wins rings makes one think of the Allen and his decade with the Redskins.

 

The difference is Snyder is not Ted.  Ted just won a Stanley Cup last year which most likely combined with the injuries to Wall, salary cap for 2019-20 and missing the playoffs led to him making a long overdue change at the GM position by firing Ernie.  

 

He allowed the Caps GM (McPhee) 16 years before making a change.  Ernie has been in DC for 16 years, ironically, but with Ted as the owner since 2010.  I don't have any faith that Snyder will fire Bruce anytime soon, especially if we keep winning 6-9 games per season and having devastating injuries.  Even if he does, I have zero faith that it would be a good hire, one that he would allow enough time to right the ship.

 

I mean, this is the same owner that hired Vinny when he bought the team, allowed Marty to fire Vinny after two years, fires Marty after 1 season even though he won 8 out of the 11 final games and we narrowly missed the playoffs, to hire back Vinny an allow him to be in charge (so to speak) for 6-7 more years.  Then hiring Bruce and allowing him to ruin us for 10 more years.  

 

We all thought we were finally headed in the right direction when he hired Scot to be GM and we see how that turned out.  Snyder can't get out of his own way and evidently has nobody in his personal life (yes, pure speculation) with the balls/guts to tell him what he needs to do.  Which is blow it up, issue an apology to the fans, admit he screwed up and wanted to start over and bring the Redskins back to the glory days and hire (overpay if needed) a new President and GM (with zero ties to the organization) and completely step aside.  

 

And if he does have someone in his life that does tell him that, well, he is too stubborn and isn't listening.  

[pcbothwel]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

The difference is Snyder is not Ted.  Ted just won a Stanley Cup last year which most likely combined with the injuries to Wall, salary cap for 2019-20 and missing the playoffs led to him making a long overdue change at the GM position by firing Ernie.  

 

He allowed the Caps GM (McPhee) 16 years before making a change.  Ernie has been in DC for 16 years, ironically, but with Ted as the owner since 2010.  I don't have any faith that Snyder will fire Bruce anytime soon, especially if we keep winning 6-9 games per season and having devastating injuries.  Even if he does, I have zero faith that it would be a good hire, one that he would allow enough time to right the ship.

 

I mean, this is the same owner that hired Vinny when he bought the team, allowed Marty to fire Vinny after two years, fires Marty after 1 season even though he won 8 out of the 11 final games and we narrowly missed the playoffs, to hire back Vinny an allow him to be in charge (so to speak) for 6-7 more years.  Then hiring Bruce and allowing him to ruin us for 10 more years.  

 

We all thought we were finally headed in the right direction when he hired Scot to be GM and we see how that turned out.  Snyder can't get out of his own way and evidently has nobody in his personal life (yes, pure speculation) with the balls/guts to tell him what he needs to do.  Which is blow it up, issue an apology to the fans, admit he screwed up and wanted to start over and bring the Redskins back to the glory days and hire (overpay if needed) a new President and GM (with zero ties to the organization) and completely step aside.  

 

And if he does have someone in his life that does tell him that, well, he is too stubborn and isn't listening.  

 

Ehhh. More parallels than you think.

1) Neither are considered Wealthy in comparison to other owners.

2) Both have had scrutiny as being average business men at best with more luck & failures than true innovation being a pioneer

3) Both "Fans" that really want to win and are willing to spend

4) Both has shown to be delusional in relating to the fans experience at their stadium as well as their status of their team compared to peers

 

[Mr. Sinister]

On 4/3/2019 at 8:01 AM, pcbothwel said:

 

I know what I must do.... I found my purpose...LOL

 

 - Last summer, I said my Goodbyes on the Orioles Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild.

This winter, The Orioles fired everyone and went with a whole new structure with a modern approach/structure/GM

 

 - About 6 weeks ago, I said my Goodbyes on the Wizards Forum and said I would also no longer watch any games until a complete overhaul/rebuild/New FO.

Yesterday, EG gets canned and Ted Leonsis said "We will be running a process to review our structure, roles and responsibilities, and think through how we can build an organization for the next chapter of the NBA demands".

 

So here it is guys... I'll give it until about November... maybe ThanksGiving before my required departure to get Bruce Canned... You're Welcome ES    😉

 

November? **** outta here

 

[monkeezgob]

The bottom line is this franchise is doomed to mediocrity and a series of really dumb trades and roster moves for as long as Allen and Snyder have anything to do with it. We're too entrenched in underperforming now for that to change, but I don't see Danny selling any time soon. He'll only sell if people stop going. It's a really sad state of affairs.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[TheShredder]

Allen's looking like a genius picking up Re.Foster and getting him on the active roster.  I liked the pickup vs the risk and have to say that it worked out well so far.  We'll see...

I think the draft will be a huge deal for the Skins and they need 2-3 starters out of this draft, non of which is a QB.  You never know with a draft pick if it's a good one or not until after the rookie season.  Obviously they are going to add an Edge rusher and a OL'men.  My opinion is that for Allen to make a successful offseason in 2019, he'll need at least 2 starters there.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

Allen's looking like a genius picking up Re.Foster and getting him on the active roster.  I liked the pickup vs the risk and have to say that it worked out well so far.  We'll see...

I think the draft will be a huge deal for the Skins and they need 2-3 starters out of this draft, non of which is a QB.  You never know with a draft pick if it's a good one or not until after the rookie season.  Obviously they are going to add an Edge rusher and a OL'men.  My opinion is that for Allen to make a successful offseason in 2019, he'll need at least 2 starters there.

 

This offseason has the potential to realistically infuse a ****load of talent into the roster...I mean, enough to push the team into playoff contention in December. Kind of depends on how things play out with Rosen.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

This offseason has the potential to realistically infuse a ****load of talent into the roster...I mean, enough to push the team into playoff contention in December. Kind of depends on how things play out with Rosen.

 

I am somewhere between this optimistic take and the take of Vegas and just about every NFL power ranker which has them everywhere from being the worst team in the NFL to one of the 4 worst.   So I'd label myself neutral about this roster to lean negative with the caveat of that leaning could change after the draft. 

 

In the current state of the roster today, I think we are in the 6-10, maybe 7-9 range. 

 

This is coming from a dude who predicted winning season the last three years.   So I am not naturally pessimistic about the roster the way I am on ownership.  But I do feel worse about this roster than I have been of recent year rosters.  Main reason being its a passing league and its tough to win with both subpar QB play and subpar receivers.   Then you add an O line with the same question at LG and the same questions as recent years as to O line depth where I can see the wheels fall off the offense again.  And while I like the defense, I don't think its near elite level (predraft) where they can carry the team.

 

Comparing 2018-2019 rosters

 

Safety:  better.  I like Collins over DJ.  But DJ was really good.  FS seems more up in the air though than last year.  Last year, we thought Nicholson was emerging.  This year he seems like a much bigger wildcard.

 

O line:  slightly worse?  Ty was a key backup.  He's gone now.  Otherwise I think Flowers versus Lauvao is a toss up.  If you listen to Cooley, Flowers is a downgrade.  Maybe that's true.  But Lauvao would always get hurt.   So I see the O line as the same and the depth slightly worse.

 

WR:  worse.  Crowder was their best receiver IMO.

 

D line:  worse:   Preston wasn't a stud but the d line was better with him than without him.

 

MLB:  better.  it's basically Reuben Foster replacing Zach Brown.  Foster though is a bit of a wild card.  He's been injury prone and there is a reason why the NFL put him in one of those behavioral monitoring programs - and its not because he's a boy scout.  So lets hope he stays out of trouble.  Jay has to be thrilled.  Foster I've heard many times was Jay's guy and one of the behind the scenes stories about them making this move centered on Jay being for it.   I recall hearing Foster is Jay's guy in a big way back before and after the 2017 draft.

 

QB:  worse.  I am not an Alex Smith guy as to the player we saw in 2018.  But I thought he could improve with time in the system.  I do think though Alex > Keenum.  And Alex > Colt.

 

Overall, I see this team as having more holes and in worse shape than in 2018.  But not to the degree as Vegas and the NFL pundits see it -- they think we'd be competing for the first pick in the draft.  However, as I say every off season at this juncture -- the off season isn't over so too early to grade it.  My book isn't closed on this roster.  I think this FO is so so at pro personnel at best.  Some good moves, some bad moves but most of it adds up to "meh'.  However, their college department is good.  And I usually feel better about the off season AFTER the draft.  So will see. 

 

Having said that, I don't care if they take a step down if it helps the rebuild.  So I am not sweating any of it.  But if i am Jay and fighting for my job (maybe Bruce, too) and its about win now.   I'd load up in the draft on O line, get a Y type TE who can both catch and block, pass rusher.  In short I'd try to replicate the early 2018 formula where the run game and defense can carry the team. And fix the passing game next year.  I think it might be too tough to fix it all in one off season.   So make your strengths -- stronger.  And don't let the O line unravel another season.  IMO right now if they don't make another move or two on the O line -- we could easily be having the same conversation next season as the previous two seasons about how things went awry when they lost so and so on the O line.  IMO they have to build enough young depth that the wheels don't fall off if the starters on the O line miss games.   That's at least my 2 cents. 😀

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's at least my 2 cents. 😀

 

 

Let me say (along with everyone else who has said it lol), your write-up posts are really good *applause*...especially in the draft thread. Even when I don't agree with them, theyre always really good lol...

 

As for the above, I guess I don't/didn't consider Kerrigan and Preston Smith to be part of the DLine, and instead part of the LB corps. So for me, it would be:

 

DLine - same.

LBs - better.

Safeties - better.

CBs- same.

 

And I did say we had the "potential" to add a serious infusion of talent into the team, but it's far from a slam-dunk. I was just imagining if we ended up adding Collins, Foster, Rosen, a top-ranked edge rusher, and an 2nd round OG (this of course would be contingent on somehow being able to grab Rosen with one of our 3rds instead of with our 2nd). That's some potentially significant talent upgrades to bring in--with the emphasis on "potentially" lol...No guarantee Rosen ends up any better than, say, Keenum. No guarantee Foster lives up to his impressive rookie season production--or, even if he does, stays healthy or out of trouble. No guarantee of results, which there never is. But the level of talent these players would possess would be higher than the players they'd be replacing, imo...even if that talent doesn't ultimately translate into better performance and production.

 

But if the talent level does translate to better production, I could see the defense and run game winning enough games to make contending for a playoff spot in December a realistic possibility.

[wit33]

Would be predicting a playoff run if Smith were at the helm, but without a known variable at the most important position makes it tough.

 

Not confident in skill position talent on offense assisting a McCoy or Keenum to provide consistent QB play that’s required to succeed week to week. Both guys appear to possess infectious charisma and confidence that could help the team reach levels not expected.

 

Still a lot more off season ahead, but it’s a less than 50-50 shot the team will be an above .500 next year. 

 

 

 

 

[TheShredder]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Overall, I see this team as having more holes and in worse shape than in 2018.  But not to the degree as Vegas and the NFL pundits see it -- they think we'd be competing for the first pick in the draft.  However, as I say every off season at this juncture -- the off season isn't over so too early to grade it.  My book isn't closed on this roster.  I think this FO is so so at pro personnel at best.  Some good moves, some bad moves but most of it adds up to "meh'.  However, their college department is good.  And I usually feel better about the off season AFTER the draft.  So will see. 

Yes, I believe that's the general consensus year on year.  You can see a pointed goal towards a defensive heavy lean with a ball control rushing offensive.  This isn't a bad philosophy in the NFL with Offensive heavy tendencies.  The formula of the ages is still true where 'Offenses win games but Defenses win Championships'.    I think the results show that an overpowering offense vs top ranked defense have evened out when considering championships.  My largest tell is where KC and NO offenses still can't close the deal due to a lopsided offense to defense talent comparison.  Also it's clear that you do not need the best statistical QB to win a championship.  Tom Brady hasn't performed flawlessly in Super Bowls.  He's thrown pick 6's in championship games.  The difference is that he truly knows that between himself and his HC that they will find the weaknesses and decisively exploit them.  So an All-In on Defense, ball control, and exploiting weaknesses consistently works. 

[skinsmania123]

21 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

This offseason has the potential to realistically infuse a ****load of talent into the roster...I mean, enough to push the team into playoff contention in December. Kind of depends on how things play out with Rosen.

I was thinking the same thing and then I thought IF they stay healthy.  I am not talking about a few players, that is given for any team.  I am talking what we have witnessed for the last couple of years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Yes, I believe that's the general consensus year on year.  You can see a pointed goal towards a defensive heavy lean with a ball control rushing offensive.  This isn't a bad philosophy in the NFL with Offensive heavy tendencies.  The formula of the ages is still true where 'Offenses win games but Defenses win Championships'.    I think the results show that an overpowering offense vs top ranked defense have evened out when considering championships.  My largest tell is where KC and NO offenses still can't close the deal due to a lopsided offense to defense talent comparison.  Also it's clear that you do not need the best statistical QB to win a championship.  Tom Brady hasn't performed flawlessly in Super Bowls.  He's thrown pick 6's in championship games.  The difference is that he truly knows that between himself and his HC that they will find the weaknesses and decisively exploit them.  So an All-In on Defense, ball control, and exploiting weaknesses consistently works. 

 

I am ok with riding that horse.  But my point is even if that's the goal right now, they got some work to do in the draft.  The o line if anything is right now slightly weaker and less deep than last year.  The defense basically is Landon Collins + Reuben Foster versus Zach Brown, Preston Brown, DJ Swearinger. 

 

My point is if they want to ride that strategy they got work to do still .  IMO this isn't a dominant defense and the roster as to the O line-TE isn't set to dominate the run game either IMO.  I think with some moves in the draft they can reach that goal.  Do I suspect this is a playoff team?  Nope.  My mind though might change after the draft.  Will see.   And I've been (while down on this FO) one of the more upbeat guys about their chances in recent years.  So this isn't my default position.  But it feels like they have more holes at the moment than they've had in recent years. 

[TheShredder]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with riding that horse.  But my point is even if that's the goal right now, they got some work to do in the draft.  The o line if anything is right now slightly weaker and less deep than last year.  The defense basically is Landon Collins + Reuben Foster versus Zach Brown, Preston Brown, DJ Swearinger. 

 

My point is if they want to ride that strategy they got work to do.  IMO this isn't a dominant defense and the roster on O line-TE isn't set to dominant the run game either.  I think with some moves in the draft they can reach that goal.  Do I suspect this is a playoff team?  Nope.  My mind though might change after the draft.  Will see. 

Oh yeah definitely agree. 

The Collins vs DJ swap was a plus.  Re.Foster vs ZB is an improvement, and they'll address the Edge with the #15 pick and combine it with Ryan Anderson's ability to set the edge.  I also like the DRC pickup and not sure Flowers can transition to LG.  Makes it pretty obvious they'll be looking for OL in the second round.  Those two starter would play into that plan for 2019. 

We shouldn't look past them adding depth on the OL after the draft, during roster cuts, and castoffs from the final cut down.  That's definitely the time where they evaluate and say, ok, Flowers is or isn't going to help and if this rookie can't hold the position we'll use plan B. 

The defense definitely can play to a higher level.  The offensive strength is the depth at RB when Guice is in the equation.  That's possibly the deepest RB Group in the NFL.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is from the Redskins web site.  Not sure what to make of it one way or another.  Posting here because months back last year we got into a conversation on analytics.  It's not a Bruce discussion point but we've talked here about scouting-style. etc of the FO.   So I figured I'd post if anyone is interested. 

 

https://www.redskins.com/news/analytics-and-technology-have-bolstered-the-redskins-scouting-philosophy

Ritcher is in his sixth season as an NFL scout, and he's seen both sides when it comes to evaluating talent. He spent his first four years with the Cleveland Browns, whose scouting philosophy relies more on analytics than it does in Washington, which he said maintains a "consistent structure, old school way of scouting."

 

Much of the data backs up Ritcher's claim. In 2015, ESPN released the "Great Analytics Rankings" to measure the use of analytics among franchises across the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. The Redskins ranked 120th out of 122 teams overall and last in terms of NFL organizations.

 

In a recent interview with Redskins.com, current Senior Vice President of Player Personnel Doug Williams explained why he's skews towards the "old school" way of scouting.

 

"The numbers matter in some way, but I think when you’re watching players, numbers can’t pick players," Williams said. "It’s the scout and what their gut feeling is and what you think about that player and what that player can do at the end of the day. We can put all the numbers in, but the numbers don’t play. Players play, and you got to pick the players that do play.”

Scott, who continues to serve as scout, also prescribes more to the "gut factor" than the statistics, but he's beginning to see value in both approaches. With the help of scouting assistant Peter Picerelli, Scott formulated a weekly 70-page report for coaches throughout the 2018 season. It touches on a variety of tendencies that could prove useful down the line, such as play clock management or the depth of the quarterback when he releases his passes.

 

Simply put, it aims to give the Redskins an added advantage, no matter how big or small.

 

"The numbers just give you some basis," Scott said. "If I can get certain things or tendencies or pick up on certain things, we can even get that to the coaches and they can incorporate that into their game plans."

[RemoveSnyder]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

ranked 120th out of 122 teams overall and last in terms of NFL organizations.

 

Dan and Bruce don't do science. That's a "democrat thing."