The Politics Sexual Assault Thread

[Llevron]

Just now, Zguy28 said:

My faith ain't blind.

 

I wasnt trying to insult you or your faith so please dont take it that way if you are. Im trying to insult those people who plan to vote Roy Moore regardless of the allegations because "He is a man of God" and "He wouldnt do that". Thats what I mean by blind faith in anything (in this case a man)

 

I do remember Bible study sessions that basically told me to believe it 'Because' though. Thats a different topic and not what im hinting at in this case homie. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

I get what Ed Stezer is saying, but the denial that many Christians are livining in right now is damning. I could just as easily interpret their “more likely to support Moore” as saying “I choose to ignore those reports because my loyalty is to my tribe, and I feel tbat my tribe is being attacked. If that means I help elect a child molester then that’s unfortunate, but he’s part of my tribe.”

[AsburySkinsFan]

Many are convinced—and now try to convince others—that Christians are somehow not bothered by a politician and U.S. Senate candidate engaging in child molestation.

Excuse me Mr. Stetzer but it’s clear that those Evangelicals who are doubling down on their support of Moore aren’t bothered enough by the possibility that they may very well be electing a child molester to the US Senate to drop their support.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Yeah man. There's no two ways about it. They either believe it and don't care or they are turning a blind eye to it because he belongs to the same group as them (and Christians is not the group I'm referring to). Neither one is ok. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

 

 

Excuse me Mr. Stetzer but it’s clear that those Evangelicals who are doubling down on their support of Moore aren’t bothered enough by the possibility that they may very well be electing a child molester to the US Senate to drop their support.

I think his point is mainly that its not all Evangelicals, not even close. But we will get lumped in regardless, because the judges (no pun) ignore the facts too.

[PleaseBlitz]

8 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

I think his point is mainly that its not all Evangelicals, not even close. But we will get lumped in regardless, because the judges (no pun) ignore the facts too.

 

He's just framing the exact same facts differently.  No, not all Evangelicals are going to vote for Roy Moore; turns out not all Evangelicals live in Alabama.  But, it is absolutely safe to say that most of Roy Moore's support will come from Evangelicals.  

[Zguy28]

4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

He's just framing the exact same facts differently.  No, not all Evangelicals are going to vote for Roy Moore; turns out not all Evangelicals live in Alabama.  But, it is absolutely safe to say that most of Roy Moore's support will come from Evangelicals.  

Yes, and who don't believe the accusations are true. But apparently a lot of folks are portraying it as endorsing what he is accused of, which its not.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Zguy28 said:

Yes, and who don't believe the accusations are true. But apparently a lot of folks are portraying it as endorsing what he is accused of, which its not.

 

Well they don't believe the accusations are true because they don't want to, because that would mean they are freely and knowingly voting for a child molester.  Still, in the end, they are going to vote for the child molester regardless, and still probably claim the moral high ground that their faith claims to provide them. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

What Pleaseblitz said... And the reason they don’t believe it’s true. It’s not because of the facts. So then, if the argument is that pretending something isn’t true is better than supporting it outright, I’m calling BS. Disgusting either way.

[PleaseBlitz]

I feel bad for some Evangelicals, I really do.  Some members of their group are making them as a whole look really, really bad.  I wouldn't be happy about that either.  However, rather than the tactic used by Mr. Stetzer, which is, essentially "YOU are wrong and Evangelicals are (still) righteous even if they support a freaking child molester" i feel like the right thing to do here is to try to separate the good part of the group from the bad, point out what YOU actually believe, why voting for a child molester does not comport with your faith, and why those doing it are misguided.  Like this:

 

Quote

It’s a travesty that Moore and his sanctimonious ilk have been allowed to hijack “conservative Christianity.” I imagine William F. Buckley Jr. — that grinning apostle of joy — spinning in his grave. Buckley was an evangelist for an authentic Christian conservatism, a rich intellectual tradition traced by Russell Kirk in his 1953 masterpiece, “The Conservative Mind.”

 

This tradition — which today finds such able defenders as Peter Wehner and Michael Gerson — prizes humility over utopianism, natural law over social engineering, prudence over urgency, individual freedom over collective designs. It’s not the only lens through which Christians can read the Gospel, but it is a thoroughly respectable one.

 

Compare that with the nitwittery of Jim Zeigler, state auditor of Alabama, who offered a scandalous exegesis in defense of Moore. According to Zeigler, the mall-skulking Moore, chatting up teens and signing their high school yearbooks well into his 30s, resembles Joseph at the manger in Bethlehem. The history of sinners frantically thumbing their Bibles for a friendly passage out of context is as old as sinners and Bibles — but that is about as low as it gets.

 

Moore’s campaign has bragged of 50 pastors signing a letter of support. In Bible-Belt Alabama, that’s not a large number. Still, until voices are heard from the thousands of pulpits so far silent, that rump faction can claim to speak authoritatively. Surely Alabama Christians care more for Scripture than to let it be a fig leaf for Roy Moore’s naked power trip.

 

I think of the Apostle Paul, the very model of evangelical Christianity, who was saved from his own Moore-like pharisaical hatreds by an encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus. He taught the young church in Corinth that the greatest Christian virtue is love, which “does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.”

 

What would Paul make of Moore’s vanity and the rages of his aggrieved supporters? Millions of Christians, the silent majority you might say, have the answer in hearts moved by tenderness and mercy. Now we’re called to bear witness.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/christians-our-silence-on-roy-moore-isnt-enough/2017/11/14/1d459cda-c96e-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html?utm_term=.50a8c6abc6f0

Edited November 15, 2017 by PleaseBlitz

[Burgold]

I remember one of the complaints in the Middle East was that too many Muslims stayed silent when extremists committed acts of terrorism and for some that silence signaled condoning or even supporting the atrocity. That argument always carried some weight with me. I did want Muslim clerics to speak out. I did want to see more statements of condemnation about acts of horror by every day Muslims. Now, I think some went too far painting this lack of voice as a sign that all Muslims were evil monster accomplices and terrorist actors, but I would like to seem more  effort from within the Muslim community to police its own.

 

Same here with the Evangelicals. Evangelicals should not be standing with the monsters. They should not be silent when people like Moore allegedly cause great harm and use their faith as a prop and shield. If they are good Godly people they need to stand for the kingdom of God and not a political party. I can understand a Muslim in the Middle East being afraid to speak up because they are afraid they will be killed or that their family might be tortured or killed. What prevents an Evangelical American from speaking out against evil?

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan T.]

Roy Moore's attorney

 

Will Forte as Presidential candidate "Tim Calhoun"

[TradeTheBeal!]

Nathan Thurm.

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[PF Chang]

Nobody involved with this administration should even mention the concept of hell. If hell exists, their trip there is TSA pre-approved. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

I think his point is mainly that its not all Evangelicals, not even close. But we will get lumped in regardless, because the judges (no pun) ignore the facts too.

But it is a measure of self professed Evangelicals in Alabama. So in that respect it’s accurate. I will concede that nominal Xristianity is very real and probably has a lot to do with this, but without theological litums tests we’re left with self identification.

[gbear]

23 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

I am sorry, but that picture is begging for a caption that guy's thoughts contest.  Yes, the irony of my having that thought in this thread is not lost on me.  

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by gbear

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

Yes, and who don't believe the accusations are true. But apparently a lot of folks are portraying it as endorsing what he is accused of, which its not.

I don’t think I see anyone portraying Evangelicals as endorsing pedophilia. Now, what I do see is that the discussion is framed that they either don’t care, or are ignoring the charges because of tribalism.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Yeah at this point “not believing the allegations” is a choice you make to rationalize your support of your party and not a conclusion one can even somewhat realistically come to after viewing the evidence presented. 

 

Therefore, I really don’t see much distinction in supporting a pedophile because he’s the right political party versus simply endorsing pedophilia. 

 

Sure there is a line...but come on 

[skinsmarydu]

4 hours ago, Llevron said:

 And even if there is, its a pretty thin one for people who believe their God is the one and only true God (cause reasons?) even though all those other religions are basically saying the same thing down to the little evil snake that makes you eat apples 'n ****.

No, unless you really say it...it's eat apples, and F!  That was it!  We knew what would make us truly happy, and we would beg, borrow, steal and murder for it (Vikings, seasons I & II)

It's why being naked made us ashamed.  Think about it...really think about it.  It was meant to bring us another joyous piece of us, but at a huge price AT EVERY TURN. 

Really give it some thought, y'all.  I'm sure @Jumbo knows exactly what I'm talking about. 

It's just finally coming down to where we are all exposed every day all day to this **** now that we're old enough to vote...it ain't new.  This goes back half a century or more.  We just didn't know second by second.   (And by the way, it wouldn't surprise me if some women get exposed for being abusive b-words.  I just wonder who that first brave soldier will be.)

[AsburySkinsFan]

9 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Yeah at this point “not believing the allegations” is a choice you make to rationalize your support of your party and not a conclusion one can even somewhat realistically come to after viewing the evidence presented. 

 

Therefore, I really don’t see much distinction in supporting a pedophile because he’s the right political party versus simply endorsing pedophilia. 

 

Sure there is a line...but come on 

This needs to be stessed. I really think that this is the crux of the issue. At the end there is little difference between the tribalism and endorising a child molester.

[skinsmarydu]

IF SOMEONE ACCUSES YOU PUBLICLY, YOU ****ING SUCK!  PERIOD.

[PF Chang]

So why don't they believe the accusations? I doubt they have a problem believing that Harvey Weinstein is a rapist.

 

Seems to me they simply don't want it to be true, and that their conviction to vote Republican is stronger than their dislike of pedophiles. Why not just admit it, everyone already sees through the BS. 

 

Mormons are always the butt of the joke when it comes to Christianity but I'm respecting them more and more these days. When Mormons say they won't support immoral candidates, they actually mean it. Their views are sincere. I don't agree with any of those views, but I appreciate the honesty.

 

Evangelical Christianity is declining in this country for many reasons but I think a big part of it is that nobody is buying that these beliefs are sincere anymore.

 

We have all seen the polls - from WaPo - "In just five years, white evangelicals have become much more likely to say a person who commits an “immoral” act can behave ethically in a public role. In 2011, just 30 percent of these evangelicals said this, but that number has more than doubled to 72 percent in a recent survey." This hasn't been the case for Mormons.

 

A good, quick article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/one-blasphemers-new-admiration-for-mormons/545735/