Fresh8686 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Destino said: But how do you know that you're not being manipulated by someone that knew how bad some of these people were and happily looked the other way (or worse)? I loved what Oprah had to say. I watched it three times. Absolutely beautiful words and delivered so well it made me want to stand up and cheer. It doesn't however, take a good heart to deliver a great speech. I have no idea what Oprah is like in real life and neither does anyone that doesn't actually know her well enough to see behind the curtains. All we see are carefully crafted images. All we hear are carefully selected words. When professionals are employed to decide what to say based on how it might impact Q rating, there is every reason to doubt. For what it's worth, I hope she genuinely believes every word she said. I hear you. If you look at the post I wrote after the one you quoted. I think you'll see where I touched on that. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Quote Am I a bad feminist? MARGARET ATWOOD Special to The Globe and Mail Published January 13, 2018 Margaret Atwood is the author of more than 40 books of poetry, fiction and essays, including The Handmaid's Tale. It seems that I am a "Bad Feminist." I can add that to the other things I've been accused of since 1972, such as climbing to fame up a pyramid of decapitated men's heads (a leftie journal), of being a dominatrix bent on the subjugation of men (a rightie one, complete with an illustration of me in leather boots and a whip) and of being an awful person who can annihilate – with her magic White Witch powers – anyone critical of her at Toronto dinner tables. I'm so scary! And now, it seems, I am conducting a War on Women, like the misogynistic, rape-enabling Bad Feminist that I am. What would a Good Feminist look like, in the eyes of my accusers? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/am-i-a-bad-feminist/article37591823/ This is worth taking a moment to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Destino said: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/am-i-a-bad-feminist/article37591823/ This is worth taking a moment to read. Good stuff. This is important: Quote The #MeToo moment is a symptom of a broken legal system. All too frequently, women and other sexual-abuse complainants couldn't get a fair hearing through institutions – including corporate structures – so they used a new tool: the internet. Stars fell from the skies. This has been very effective, and has been seen as a massive wake-up call. But what next? The legal system can be fixed, or our society could dispose of it. Institutions, corporations and workplaces can houseclean, or they can expect more stars to fall, and also a lot of asteroids. The internet, social media and journalism isn't well suited to deal with this issue long-term. Ultimately, we are going to need reform at the workplace and in the legal system to diminish trial by court of public opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Aziz Ansari is on the Summer Jam screen. http://uproxx.com/news/aziz-ansari-accused-sexual-assault/ Edited January 14, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 She gave non-verbal cues. We have to say No, loud and proud and make it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Always thought he was a smug prick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Aziz Ansari is on the Summer Jam screen. http://uproxx.com/news/aziz-ansari-accused-sexual-assault/ The version that article links to on babe.net is much more detailed and unpleasant to read. 2 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: She gave non-verbal cues. We have to say No, loud and proud and make it clear. I will always be of the mind that relying on non-verbal cues is a mistake, and that is not limited to sex. I've seen too many arguments caused by people that have known each other for years misinterpreting these things. Clear communication makes life easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Destino said: I will always be of the mind that relying on non-verbal cues is a mistake, and that is not limited to sex. I've seen too many arguments caused by people that have known each other for years misinterpreting these things. Clear communication makes life easier. This is true, clear communication and follow-up or confirming questions are necessary to properly navigate uncertainty. Checking in to make sure both people are on the same page. However, that also needs to be combined with the dedicated development of emotional and social intelligence that creates an awareness of the real time emotional state of the people around you. Guys aren't taught to read the emotions of others and the majority ****ing suck at it badly compared to women. A guy should be able to get out of his own head and feel what's going on with the people they communicate with just like women do. They should be able to feel the quality or flavor of rapport they are having with a person at a given time and what kind of behavior aligns or does not align within the confines of that rapport. I had to learn it myself and it's hugely important to richer experiences of connection and frankly better sex/intimacy. I feel like too many men cling to an immature view of masculinitiy that derides the practice and development of the above to everyone's detriment. Edit: just want to add that the very important fact that a woman CANNOT be blamed for only using non-verbal cues to say no. A guy can't use that as a defense. It's the mans responsibility to check in with his partner to pay attention to noises she makes and the body language she is expressing. I don't care if your eyes are rolling back in your head and your on the edge of orgasm, you need to be paying attention and able to stop things at a moments notice if things go south. And if anyone wants to say that's too much responsibility or not practical, that's bull****, because I live that level of responsibility and have no problem being that conscious. It's very doable, once you adapt to its practice. You can't take mutuality and connection and being on the same page for granted. Edited January 14, 2018 by Fresh8686 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Aziz Ansari is on the Summer Jam screen. http://uproxx.com/news/aziz-ansari-accused-sexual-assault/ Genuinely curious if ANYONE is interested in his side of the story? She goes back to his apartment, goes down on him repeatedly, then says she hates men because they all want to get her drunk and have sex with her. How about saying thanks but no thanks on going back to his apartment on the first date? How about giving a firm "no" the second he started kissing her aggressively? Instead she goes down on him and lets him go down on her, then goes down on him again because she didnt want to dissapoint him? She can feel bad about he choices after, she can cry about it. That is her right. But she has to take ownership of her own behavior before she wants to talk about his. That said, I love how everyone now is so intent on the witch hunt, personal accountbility and other sides of the story just dont matter anymore. Be careful what you wish for because it might just be you looking down the barrel next 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, zoony said: Genuinely curious if ANYONE is interested in his side of the story? Nope, doing so is insensitive to the victim. and stories gotta have a victim. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I happen to agree with you Zoony. We can't expect people to read our minds. We'll never know that if she had said NO, if he would respect her wishes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 hours ago, zoony said: Genuinely curious if ANYONE is interested in his side of the story? She goes back to his apartment, goes down on him repeatedly, then says she hates men because they all want to get her drunk and have sex with her. How about saying thanks but no thanks on going back to his apartment on the first date? How about giving a firm "no" the second he started kissing her aggressively? Instead she goes down on him and lets him go down on her, then goes down on him again because she didnt want to dissapoint him? She can feel bad about he choices after, she can cry about it. That is her right. But she has to take ownership of her own behavior before she wants to talk about his. That said, I love how everyone now is so intent on the witch hunt, personal accountbility and other sides of the story just dont matter anymore. Be careful what you wish for because it might just be you looking down the barrel next I had similar thoughts reading the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: I happen to agree with you Zoony. We can't expect people to read our minds. We'll never know that if she had said NO, if he would respect her wishes. It not even about mind reading, it's about choice. If I unenthusiastically have sex with some random woman after turning her down a few times, my wife isn't going to give a damn about whatever hints or cues I was dropping and neither are the police. Unless I refused to consent or was unable to consent, then that choice was mine, and mine alone, to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Quote Was Grace frozen, terrified, stuck? No. She tells us that she wanted something from Ansari and she was trying to figure out how to get it. She wanted affection, kindness, attention. Perhaps she hoped to maybe even become the famous man’s girlfriend. He wasn’t interested. What she felt afterward—rejected yet another time, by yet another man—was regret. And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn. The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. Together, the two women may have destroyed Ansari’s career, which is now the punishment for every kind of male sexual misconduct, from the grotesque to the disappointing. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Those are the kinds of accusations that the Oprahs of the world should be calling out. Its not men in power that will put a death nail in the movement, it will be stories like this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 22 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Always thought he was a smug prick. I just don't think he's funny - at all. Annoying as hell and nothing more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: I just don't think he's funny - at all. Annoying as hell and nothing more. Thats 100 percent of millenial comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Destino said: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/ Me and my fiancée talked about this last night. She said the moment she let Ansari give her head, was the moment she didn’t feel for the victim. Letting someone go down on you is consent in her eyes. Ansari is a creep but this was probably more about a humiliation outing than actually being a victim. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: She said the moment she let Ansari give her head, was the moment she didn’t feel for the victim. Letting someone go down on you is consent in her eyes. *Patrice... obviously NSFW Edited January 15, 2018 by Mooka 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 34 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Me and my fiancée talked about this last night. Like your fiancee, my wife didn't think it described anything non consensual either. She thought it read like embarrassing gossip about how awkward Aziz was, not something that described an assault. I thought the Atlantic Article went a little far though. It had a sense of a little frustration towards young feminists that had been looking for a reason to vent itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 This story probably doesn’t get as much traction if Aziz Ansari didn’t virtue signal hardcore. One of the episodes in season 1 of Master of None is explicitly about creepy men who harass women and are clueless about the signals they are receiving. He literally wrote a book called “Modern Romance”, in which he talked with sociologists, psychologists and relationship experts on the boundaries of dating. You can’t project yourself as woke bae and then claim “oops I didn’t understand your signals”. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I suspect most of us have had sex with someone we didn't really want to, male or female. You take responsibility and decide you won't do that again, and that's it. I don't think this is an assault type situation. Because it happened with someone who's known (I don't know who this guy is), this woman decided to publicize it. If the guy wasn't known, we would have never seen this story. I hope she's learned to speak up, for what she wants or doesn't want. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The story that got overlooked because of hte name Aziz Ansari https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joel-kramer-eliza-dushku_us_5a5c9eade4b04f3c55a47046 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, No Excuses said: This story probably doesn’t get as much traction if Aziz Ansari didn’t virtue signal hardcore. One of the episodes in season 1 of Master of None is explicitly about creepy men who harass women and are clueless about the signals they are receiving. He literally wrote a book called “Modern Romance”, in which he talked with sociologists, psychologists and relationship experts on the boundaries of dating. You can’t project yourself as woke bae and then claim “oops I didn’t understand your signals”. I agree. However, they were on a date, she went back to his place, and she let him give her head. Women are not obligated to have sex with men. And men should not demand it, but thinking about it more and talking to my fiancee makes me think that Ansari is just sexually awkward more than a monster like this woman wants to paint him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 No one is obligated to have sex with anyone, male or female. There are females who are sexually aggressive with females too, and that's not acceptable either. No means no, period. It doesn't mean trying different tactics to get to yes. R E S P E C T Find out what it means to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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