Llevron Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, twa said: Odds on him wishing ya'll allowed him one then? Just so we are clear here, ya'll forbid him a weapon to defend himself and others....because he might kill kids or some **** on accident.. and yet he persisted in trying to protect others till the end.. My goal is to deny the killer a gun and make it so he doesn't have to die protecting children. Why is that hard to understand? Also there were more kids than just his class. What about them? Or are we assuming the next teacher was ready to go too? And I'm willing to bet his dying thought process wasn't on wishing he had a gun to waste someone. Possibly on not wanting to die. I dunno though Edited February 17, 2018 by Llevron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said: Would he have had to risk his body at all (even with a gun) to protect children if the shooter didn’t have easy access to an assault rifle? i think its clear what is the actual safer course You think a Glock less deadly in that situation? I proposed removing both from him(legally) We are wandering. take it to the other thread if ya wish. Just now, Llevron said: Or are we assuming the next teacher was ready to go too? I don't assume much, safer that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Would he have had to risk his body at all (even with a gun) to protect children if the shooter didn’t have easy access to an assault rifle? i think its clear what is the actual safer course This is obvious unless you have a bias and want to make his death mean what works for your argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-m-army-veteran-gun-owner-good-guy-gun-theory-ncna821976 Quote Our nation’s love of firearms, combined with our history of arrogance and hyper-masculinity, has produced a culture in which millions of (particularly younger) white men now believe they could, at any time, be the only thing standing between good and evil. A quick search on YouTube will provide countless videos of these would-be superheroes strolling down city streets with powerful rifles on display, begging for law enforcement to challenge their constitutional rights. This is not simply an issue of Second Amendment rights, however. The world is a dangerous place, and these would-be crime stoppers claim that a good guy with a gun must be ready and willing to stop a bad guy with a gun. As evidence, they point to high-profile stories like the recent Texas shooting at First Baptist Church, in which a good Samaritan with a gun chased and ultimately wounded the shooter as he left the church. He did not prevent the massacre, but maybe he could have, if he had only gotten there earlier — at least, that’s what these people argue. The problem with this narrative (besides a lack of research or data suggesting more guns does indeed prevent violence broadly) is that killing another human being, even a “bad” one, is not easy. This is not “Call of Duty”: Despite the damage that modern weaponry can inflict, there is a reason that soldiers and law enforcement officers receive thousands of hours of training in firearms and tactics. This training is physical, mechanical and, most importantly, psychological, because in order to efficiently and effectively kill other human beings in high-stress situations, one must be conditioned to negotiate that stress. If we are gonna rely on good guys with a gun to save us, they better have some serious training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, Llevron said: This is obvious unless you have a bias and want to make his death mean what works for your argument. So do it. oh wait ya can't back to the circle jerk Just now, bearrock said: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-m-army-veteran-gun-owner-good-guy-gun-theory-ncna821976 If we are gonna rely on good guys with a gun to save us, they better have some serious training. You don't need them, ya have positive vibes or some ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 https://agingmillennialengineer.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/****-you-i-like-guns-2/ **** you, I like guns.” America, can we talk? Let’s just cut the **** for once and actually talk about what’s going on without blustering and pretending we’re actually doing a good job at adulting as a country right now. We’re not. We’re really screwing this whole society thing up, and we have to do better. We don’t have a choice. People are dying. At this rate, it’s not if your kids, or mine, are involved in a school shooting, it’s when. One of these happens every 60 hours on average in the US. If you think it can’t affect you, you’re wrong. Dead wrong. So let’s talk. I’ll start. I’m an Army veteran. I like M-4’s, which are, for all practical purposes, an AR-15, just with a few extra features that people almost never use anyway. I’d say at least 70% of my formal weapons training is on that exact rifle, with the other 30% being split between various and sundry machineguns and grenade launchers. My experience is pretty representative of soldiers of my era. Most of us are really good with an M-4, and most of us like it at least reasonably well, because it is an objectively good rifle. I was good with an M-4, really good. I earned the Expert badge every time I went to the range, starting in Basic Training. This isn’t uncommon. I can name dozens of other soldiers/veterans I know personally who can say the exact same thing. This rifle is surprisingly easy to use, completely idiot-proof really, has next to no recoil, comes apart and cleans up like a dream, and is light to carry around. I’m probably more accurate with it than I would be with pretty much any other weapon in existence. I like this rifle a lot. I like marksmanship as a sport. When I was in the military, I enjoyed combining these two things as often as they’d let me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, twa said: So do it. oh wait ya can't back to the circle jerk You don't need them, ya have positive vibes or some ****. Cruz was crazy. Crazy people shouldn't have guns. Yeah, let's do it. Absolutely. Gun owners should have serious training. This is a bad idea? Gun owners should be trained and be sane. Is this really too difficult a proposition to agree on? I'm starting to lose that positive vibe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, bearrock said: Cruz was crazy. Crazy people shouldn't have guns. Yeah, let's do it. Absolutely. Gun owners should have serious training. This is a bad idea? Gun owners should be trained and be sane. Is this really too difficult a proposition to agree on? I'm starting to lose that positive vibe. Was he crazy? Or was the system that got 20+ calls on him crazy?...either/or? The day I need ya'll to train me I'll put a bullet in my head and join your statistics for gun control. Good night/sleep tight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: Was he crazy? Or was the system that got 20+ calls on him crazy?...either/or? The day I need ya'll to train me I'll put a bullet in my head and join your statistics for gun control. Good night/sleep tight He killed 17 innocent people. If he's not crazy, we need to redefine crazy. But sure, the system that didn't act on those calls could be crazy too. So maybe both? Maybe we should say if 20 people call you in, the big bad govt comes and take your guns? (Internet user names can be called in right?) I'm pretty accurate at the range. Probably not qualified to teach you how to respond on the fly to mass shooting. Don't worry though. I'm sure law enforcement and the military might have a few who might be more qualified to handle firearms than the average joe and maybe even you. Good night twa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 36 minutes ago, twa said: examples? Are you seriously asking if I can find more examples of people being accidentally shot, than you can find examples of armed civilians successfully stopping a mass shooting in progress? Just my opinion, but I really suspect the ratio is more than 1,000 - 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, twa said: Was he crazy? Or was the system that got 20+ calls on him crazy?...either/or? The day I need ya'll to train me I'll put a bullet in my head and join your statistics for gun control. Good night/sleep tight So, just to make sure I'm understanding you, twa, What is it, exactly, that you would like the nation's police to do, to every gun owner out there who hasn't committed a crime (yet), but whom they've received a complaint about? (The invitation is extended to anybody else who is trying to blame law enforcement for not preventing crimes in advance, to submit what they think the cops should have done, too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Larry said: Are you seriously asking if I can find more examples of people being accidentally shot, than you can find examples of armed civilians successfully stopping a mass shooting in progress? Just my opinion, but I really suspect the ratio is more than 1,000 - 1. http://www.aftermath.com/content/accidental-shooting-deaths-statistics Also fun fact that a big percentage of these accidents happen to adolescents under 25, and if we put more guns in schools that statistic ain't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said: Would he have had to risk his body at all (even with a gun) to protect children if the shooter didn’t have easy access to an assault rifle? i think its clear what is the actual safer course By God we have discovered a safer course....now If only we could impose it it by fiat. Just now, Larry said: So, just to make sure I'm understanding you, twa, What is it, exactly, that you would like the nation's police to do, to every gun owner out there who hasn't committed a crime (yet), but whom they've received a complaint about? (The invitation is extended to anybody else who is trying to blame law enforcement for not preventing crimes in advance, to submit what they think the cops should have done, too) I favor water boarding and thumbscrews myself...when I feel the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, visionary said: Trump supporter Racist Homophobe Anti-Semite White Male Mass murderer Please draw no connections based on the above repeated characteristics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: Trump supporter Racist Homophobe Anti-Semite White Male Mass murderer Please draw no connections based on the above repeated characteristics. Good thing he wasn't a Muslim. Cause, if he was a Muslim then, well, we'd be obligated to demand that we crack down on every single person who shares his political views, and consider every one of them a threat, and treat them accordingly. (And the fact that the constitution says we can't do that, really wouldn't apply, because public safety overrides that.) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, twa said: back to the circle jerk Oh God, please don't say circle jerk. You're trolling is way better than that. That probably sounded sarcastic but I'm actually being totally serious. "Circle jerk" is just something for the witless to say to piss people off since their pee brains can't do any better. Anyway, back on topic. We should definitely keep listening to you guys and doing it your way. I mean, look how good ya done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Anyway, back on topic. We should definitely keep listening to you guys and doing it your way. I mean, look how good ya done so far. Come on, now. Yeah, we've been making guns easier and easier and easier to get, and allowing more people to take them more places, (and even making it easier and easier to use them, with things like greatly expanding the self defense laws). And yeah, the violence sure seems to be getting worse. But, if we just keep doing it more, I'm sure it will work. If not this time, then eventually. Its kinda like trickle down economics. Yeah, it's made things worse every time we've tried it. But I'm sure that if we just do it even more, it will work, this time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Please, he ain't gonna do ****. Even he isn't dumb enough to kick his own hornets nest. It's the only support he has left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Springfield said: No no, you’ve got it all wrong. We want them to buy their own guns, carry at work for the same pay and not **** every 2 years when republicans refuse their cost of living pay raise again. See, we will have armed teachers AT A DISCOUNT! It’s such a funny idea. In high school, wouldn’t you have tried to steal the teacher’s gun? its a funny idea to give teachers guns-when they are underpaid and stressed out and have mouthy, hormonal kids in front of them all day. 6 hours ago, Larry said: So, just to make sure I'm understanding you, twa, What is it, exactly, that you would like the nation's police to do, to every gun owner out there who hasn't committed a crime (yet), but whom they've received a complaint about? (The invitation is extended to anybody else who is trying to blame law enforcement for not preventing crimes in advance, to submit what they think the cops should have done, too) Yeah twa will Be the first person ****ing about profiling and harassment when LE starts investigating every tip on a potential shooter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 6 hours ago, twa said: I favor water boarding and thumbscrews myself...when I feel the need. The responses to the questions and conversations in this thread have been, in the main, thoughtful and respectful. People have exchanged ideas and provided context for their opinions and beliefs. You do that on occasion and provide value and balance to what tends to be a liberal leaning Tailgate. If if you want to continue to participate in this discussion it will be on that basis not one line throw away baiting responses which flirt with our strict no trolling rule as per above and what I’m reading over the last couple of pages of this thread from you as I catch up. The occasional one liner is fine - humour is fine (there are lines which exist only in the heads of individual MODs though). It can not be all you bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Shouts for actually posting about the victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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