No Excuses Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: Unlike others, I'm not afraid to lay some of the blame on violence in video games and movies/TV. Couple that with serious psychological issues that crave attention, and you have a human IED. I speak generally of course. All cases have differences. Guns come into play due to availability. I don't buy this for the simple reason that other developed countries are exposed to the exact same violent entertainment, and they do not have an issue of mass killing events. Take a country like Japan. There is a ton of Japanese entertainment that is 100x more explicitly violent than anything we consume in the US. Yet they do not have this problem. EDIT: on second thought, you may be right. In a multivariate analysis, the glorification of violence could be a contributing factor. I just think it's probably very minimal. Edited January 24, 2018 by No Excuses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Several thoughts: One, I think we have to admit that there is more to these mass shootings than JUST availability of guns. Guns have been pretty damn available for longer than this has been a trend. So we need to be looking at all sources of the problem, not just the tool used. That is not to say we shouldn't be thinking about the tool also. Two, re: veterans. I would have to know more about the history of these vets records to see how much I buy the correlation. Many people seem to not realize that the vast majority of the military are not actually involved in any "violence related" action. Most everyone is just supporting those that are. I also don't believe that the majority of these people are veterans, but this is not based on any fact I have available. Just my memory. Feel free to prove me wrong. Three, are we doing anything about holding the people that provided these weapons accountable? Like the parent that isn't keeping their weapons locked up? Four, I'm starting to believe no one (at least the politicians) really want gun change. It gives #bothsides something to ****/cheer about. Also, no one wants to negotiate. We have seen that reasonable people can come to an understanding in the Gun Control thread. I bet we could hammer something out here in a few hours. Off the top of my head, something like a Federal Firearm Owner License. Increase controls (reasonable training, background checks, etc) and in exchange make it federal law that forces some states to loosen their gun laws (and some would have to tighten). You think the NRA wouldn't support being able to open up a market in CA? Of course they would. But no Dem is willing to vote for making states loosen their gun laws. They like to laugh about "states rights" (which they stop laughing about when something like abortion is brought up). And if everyone cared so much, why was there not a ban on bump stocks tied to the budget? Supposedly, everyone supports that right? But it isn't the topic de jour. Again, things could get done. I just think at the end of the day, #bothsides don't really care that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Thoughts and prayers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 It’s that we claim that we want personal responsibility in gun ownership yet no laws to actually insure that responsibility. Or, at the bare minimum, no one who will bother to enforce the laws on the books. What are we even doing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Springfield said: It’s that we claim that we want personal responsibility in gun ownership yet no laws to actually insure that responsibility. Or, at the bare minimum, no one who will bother to enforce the laws on the books. What are we even doing? We have plenty of laws that insure fines and criminal charges for not being responsible with guns. Not sure how we can legislate to ensure responsible behavior and eliminate stupidity and evil w/o infringing severely on rights. any suggestions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, twa said: We have plenty of laws that insure fines and criminal charges for not being responsible with guns. Not sure how we can legislate to ensure responsible behavior and eliminate stupidity and evil w/o infringing severely on rights. any suggestions? Comprehensive mental health screenings for all gun owners and their immediate families and denial of sale and ownership for those who don’t pass or have been diagnosed in the past. Persecution of illegal gun sales. Better oversight of gun sales and background checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, Springfield said: Comprehensive mental health screenings for all gun owners and their immediate families and denial of sale and ownership for those who don’t pass or have been diagnosed in the past. Persecution of illegal gun sales. Better oversight of gun sales and background checks. The first is a severe infringement and burden....shrinks aren't cheap.(though it might be good to just subject the whole population to them instead ) I have no objection to the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, twa said: The first is a severe infringement and burden....shrinks aren't cheap.(though it might be good to just subject the whole population to them instead ) I have no objection to the latter Well, getting shot the **** up is a pretty severe infringement and burden as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, twa said: shrinks aren't cheap. Neither is burying people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, Springfield said: Well, getting shot the **** up is a pretty severe infringement and burden as well. Not to mention an infringement on my life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I’m tellin’ ya, the Right has ZERO ideas for how to reduce gun violence...NONE. They’ve given up even thinking about it which is why we get the limp “thoughts and prayers” routine every damn time. Oh there are laws to punish mass murderers...awesome...PREVENT my kid from being murdered in the first place dumbass! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Springfield said: It’s that we claim that we want personal responsibility in gun ownership yet no laws to actually insure that responsibility. Or, at the bare minimum, no one who will bother to enforce the laws on the books. What are we even doing? laws are rarely, if ever, proactive in stopping something. they're almost always reactive in punishing for something... it just so happens that the punishment for a mass shooting is hardly fitting of the crime (and often the shooter is dead as part of the event...) i'm not against your sentiment, i'm just not sure what you really want here. there's plenty of laws pertaining to responsibility with guns, and when you're caught the punishment is usually severe (depending on state...) what you want is regulation over the purchasing of guns. which i'm ok with, but.... i mean.... whatever, you can keep complaining about it but i don't think it's worth the effort. someone shot up a school full of children and nothing changed. until people are willing to vote in people who will do something, i don't know why you would expect something to be done. as big of an issue as this supposedly is, the party that is against any regulation of any kind swept up control across the board. so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Wow. You all just had @twa, the embodiment of the GOP, agree with better background checks and this is the best you can respond? He agrees with half your point and all we get is snark. No wonder **** doesnt get done. Im really glad the Left doesnt like guns. You all would be quite dangerous with them from those ivory towers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Wow. You all just had @twa, the embodiment of the GOP, agree with better background checks and this is the best you can respond? He agrees with half your point and all we get is snark. No wonder **** doesnt get done. Im really glad the Left doesnt like guns. You all would be quite dangerous with them from those ivory towers. somewhere around 80% of the country agrees with an increase in background checks. twa spends all day supporting the people who refuse to pass legislation regarding background checks. i don't think it's as big of a deal as you're making. i also agree about the left and guns can you imagine what guns would look like when marketed towards them? Edited January 24, 2018 by tshile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, tshile said: laws are rarely, if ever, proactive in stopping something. they're almost always reactive in punishing for something... it just so happens that the punishment for a mass shooting is hardly fitting of the crime (and often the shooter is dead as part of the event...) i'm not against your sentiment, i'm just not sure what you really want here. there's plenty of laws pertaining to responsibility with guns, and when you're caught the punishment is usually severe (depending on state...) what you want is regulation over the purchasing of guns. which i'm ok with, but.... i mean.... whatever, you can keep complaining about it but i don't think it's worth the effort. someone shot up a school full of children and nothing changed. until people are willing to vote in people who will do something, i don't know why you would expect something to be done. as big of an issue as this supposedly is, the party that is against any regulation of any kind swept up control across the board. so.... I don’t think anything will stop mass shootings except taking all the guns away. Incidentally, I’m not even really for that kind of a measure. I don’t expect anything to happen. As you said, a crazy (barely adult) man, walked into an elementary school and shot up the place. Nothing changed. Nothing is going to change. Not even in the slightest. I propose the most modest regulation, testing all gun owner’s mental acuity, and I’m met with “shrinks are expensive”. No ****ing ****, Sherlock. Twa represents the conservative, and probably a moderate one. This is why nothing will change. Even modest conservatives are afraid to take any kind of action. 5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Wow. You all just had @twa, the embodiment of the GOP, agree with better background checks and this is the best you can respond? He agrees with half your point and all we get is snark. No wonder **** doesnt get done. Im really glad the Left doesnt like guns. You all would be quite dangerous with them from those ivory towers. Counterpoint. He agreed with a better implementation of the laws already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, Springfield said: propose the most modest regulation, testing all gun owner’s mental acuity, and I’m met with “shrinks are expensive”. No ****ing ****, Sherlock. Twa represents the conservative, and probably a moderate one. This is why nothing will change. Even modest conservatives are afraid to take any kind of action. i'm cool with that but would add an amendment of doing the same for the ability to vote. i'm dead serious, btw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, tshile said: i'm cool with that but would add an amendment of doing the same for the ability to vote. i'm dead serious, btw. I would support this. Totally serious also. I think there's a few rights that need to be curtailed a little bit. I wouldn't mind taking a look at the First Amendment. Something along the lines of must have the at least smallest bit of Truth to be considered news. Take care of those websites like Infowars 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 ****. I’d say “dilly dilly” if it hadn’t already been overplayed and ruined. So, agreement all around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Springfield said: Well, getting shot the **** up is a pretty severe infringement and burden as well. And doing both is against the law/constitution. Make me King and I will fix these problems, of course most of you might need executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Want more proof that school shootings don’t shock us any more? 16 min 3 seconds of coverage on the big three cable news networks. Innocent children being shot dead in our schools is no longer news cycle worthy. With this being the case there is no way we get ahold of senisble and effective gun control. The NRA has won. #TheNewNormal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 What stories did they concentrate on instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: What stories did they concentrate on instead? Imonna guess... Trump? He has been the headline in bold print on cnn every single day for the last 2 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: What stories did they concentrate on instead? Bread and circuses? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, zoony said: Imonna guess... Trump? CNN: Trump. (A real story). Fox: Hillary and the FBI. (A fake one.) Edited January 25, 2018 by Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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