bearrock Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Nobody will bring the country back together. But not every candidate will blame things on mass media conspiracy and frame the establishments of both parties as the problem. It boils down to "if you are not with me, you are the problem" as opposed to the possibility that reasonable people may have reasonable disagreements. It further toxifies discourse in this country. The other side is worse argument gets less impressive by the minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Llevron said: You really think these was a universally supported candidate in this election that would bring the country back together? Someone was always going to have to give something they want up in this. It just happens to be people with your political persuasions this time. I don’t know how you expect one elected official to bring the country back together when you know one person didn’t rip it apart. I think 30% of the country is just lost on the Right and probably about 10% on the Left. But the 60% in the middle and moderate Left could be brought together with the right person. Bernie ain't it. He'll bring together about 30% of the Left and the 40% left over will just shake our head and try to avoid the fire bombings that will come. 14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Neither will reelecting Trump, this arguement makes no sense. Electing Bernie, just like reelecting Trump, will just prove the country is lost. The smart people will start looking for a new home outside the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 minute ago, bearrock said: Nobody will bring the country back together. But not every candidate will blame things on mass media conspiracy and frame the establishments of both parties as the problem. It boils down to "if you are not with me, you are the problem" as opposed to the possibility that reasonable people may have reasonable disagreements. It further toxifies discourse in this country. The other side is worse argument gets less impressive by the minute Barrack Obama ran on an explicitly anti-establishment message to the left of Hillary, where he would lampoon establishment Democrats quite explicitly. Neither Bernie nor Trump invented this playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 30 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: You're welcome to. But you have to own what arises from a Bernie win also. Certainly won't be bringing the country back together at all. nobody is bringing the country back together when Republicans/Trumpers believe democrats are evil child murderers running secret pedophile rings. They’re gone. It’s a pipe dream as long as right wing propaganda exists due to the degree they’ve been radicalized I’m also really tired of hearing from Republicans that the Democrat needs to unify and bring the country together and appeal to everyone and it’s held against them if they fall short of this standard yet all Republicans do is **** on every Dem President and high profile politician alive while being as divisive as possible, literally at all times. democrats didn’t do this. But sure. You’re counting on us to clean up the mess you’ve made yet again just so you can repeat the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: democrats didn’t do this. But sure. You’re counting on us to clean up the mess you’ve made yet again just so you can repeat the process see: Federal deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Electing Bernie, just like reelecting Trump, will just prove the country is lost. The smart people will start looking for a new home outside the US. The smart people who are financially well off have nothing to gain or lose on the economic side of things no matter who the president is. With the way congress works these days, the presidency at this point is just a vehicle for driving social and cultural policy. Many on the far right explicitly understand this, which is why they are ok with Trump’s bull**** because he’s an empty vessel for Christian Sharia nonsense. This is all just one big culture war. Economically it makes zero sense for anyone who lives in upscale metropolitan regions to be voting for Dems or for poor whites in rural areas to be voting GOP. But for the most part, we are all voting for economic agendas against our best interests and instead vote for cultural and social policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 I remember Bernie people complaining that they had no obligation to vote for Hillary and that the people who voted for Hillary should take all the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Electing Bernie, just like reelecting Trump, will just prove the country is lost. The smart people will start looking for a new home outside the US. This isn't Europe, for most people theres only two realistic options, Mexico and Canada. One is a lot like what Bernie wants us to do already, the other is sending over rapists and some I'm sure are good people, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Burnie Sanders has had the exact same message for the last 40 years of how he plans to help people and we are comparing him to Trump who came on to the scene with the Mexicans are murderers mixtape. And you are telling me smart people see them as so similar that they are gearing up to leave the country over it. Ok. I’m reminded of all the times I said the same thing in 2016 because of Trump and these same smart people told me I was crazy and none of the crazy **** he said he would do would happen. And then it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: nobody is bringing the country back together when Republicans/Trumpers believe democrats are evil child murderers running secret pedophile rings. They’re gone. I already said that 30% were gone. So thanks for agreeing with me I guess. 21 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I’m also really tired of hearing from Republicans that the Democrat needs to unify and bring the country together and appeal to everyone and it’s held against them if they fall short of this standard yet all Republicans do is **** on every Dem President and high profile politician alive while being as divisive as possible, literally at all times. What Republicans are you talking about? Don't really know any Republicans calling for unity, it's the middle people that are. 23 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: You’re counting on us to clean up the mess you’ve made yet again just so you can repeat the process Is this the proverbial "you"? Cause I didn't vote for anyone that is in office right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, visionary said: I remember Bernie people complaining that they had no obligation to vote for Hillary and that the people who voted for Hillary should take all the blame for Trump. I too remember how stupid that was. And the consequences of that bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: Bernie-Trump rust belt poll Bernie has a completely different path to winning the presidency than a center-left candidate. Anyone who thinks Trump will walk over Bernie to a second term is delusional. Trump’s populism will be funny to watch against Bernie. “I took on the establishment by cutting their taxes and fighting in courts and congress to strip healthcare from people with pre-existing conditions”. No amount of “omg socialist reeeeeee” screeching will work to defend this record in depressed industrial towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 At this point, my main concern with Bernie, is will he work with congress, or will he try to punish Democrats who don't vote with him, and I don't mean the few who voted against impeaching Trump, I mean regular Dems who might resist some of his ideas. If his brats attack them day and night and he uses his much expanded support and his power to go after them and help the Republicans in doing so.... Also if he starts using his new power as head of the party to back candidates in swing states who can't win over ones who can. (he has a terrible record of getting people elected) The other thing that worries me is the anti-media attitude, and pro-propaganda and conspiracy theory trafficking (sometimes) by Bernie and (much more often) his advisers and friends and followers. This is very scary and I would hate to see an America where both parties give way to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Barrack Obama ran on an explicitly anti-establishment message to the left of Hillary, where he would lampoon establishment Democrats quite explicitly. Neither Bernie nor Trump invented this playbook. If you think Bernie and Tea Party brand of anti establishment is the same as Obama (and other long history of anti-establishment candidates), we're just gonna have to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Well if there was ever a time to run a super progressive, it’s against a far right incumbent president. So I suppose there’s that. If Bernie loses, then democrats have learned a hard lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 These numbers are interesting, but there's still a long way to go and I'd assume Trump will out perform whatever the polls say in the midwest and the south, even when it's closer to election time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 So, if Bloomberg is going to flood the airwaves with Bernie praising Castro and honeymooning in Moscow and whatever other oppo-research there is to be dropped, it would seem like this has to be the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: What Republicans are you talking about? Don't really know any Republicans calling for unity, it's the middle people that are. "The entire investigation of Trump is clearly nothing more than the most partisan abuse of power in our nation's history, because the Republicans all voted against it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Springfield said: If Bernie loses, then democrats have learned a hard lesson. That America is ****ed? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, visionary said: That America is ****ed? 😉 It’s like when your father chopped off your hand for touching the remote when HE was watching the TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, No Excuses said: “I took on the establishment by cutting their taxes and fighting in courts and congress to strip healthcare from people with pre-existing conditions”. No amount of “omg socialist reeeeeee” screeching will work to defend this record in depressed industrial towns. Surely you know Trump's playbook by now. He will claim he raised taxes on the rich, cut taxes on the working class, fought Dem efforts to drop people from healthcare and has a super secret plan that is so much better than anything you've ever seen. And Comrade Sanders is a Kompromat since the days he honeymooned in Russia to visit with Lenin and Marx and is secretly the third Castro brother. And Putin is trying to get a Sanders presidency cause Trump's been very tough with Russia. And the scary thing is that some people will be stupid enough to buy it and call themselves swing voting independents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Electing Bernie, just like reelecting Trump, will just prove the country is lost. The smart people will start looking for a new home outside the US. So, country wasn't lost when we elected Trump? Tad overboard there. I actually know several people that moved to Europe and then back in this short Trump timeframe because they discovered pretty fast that the rest of the world aint so enlightened either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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