Sources: Explosion,Multiple Fatalities & Injuries Reported in Manchester Arena at Ariana Grande Concert

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 hour ago, DC9 said:

 

 

EDIT:  Can you tag me in the right thread for this discussion.

 

  I've muddied this thread up and that was not my intent.

 

 

 

I don't think we have an "Insincerity Thread".  You could start one tho.

[Destino]

If leftists were as eager to propose a response as they were to swipe at Trump we'd maybe be better off.  Not worrying and assuring everyone of tolerance isn't a response.  It's nice but it's not a plan to deal with terrorism.  Might as well propose increasing hugs by 30%.  

 

And while everyone is calling Trump a fascist, Prine Minister May is proposing regulating the internet.  Not specifically and narrowly to remove things directly related to terrorism but hate speech in general.  Why miss an opportunity to  regulate speech the European way?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/04/technology/social-media-terrorism-extremism-london/index.html

[China]

 

[Destino]

12 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I don't think we have an "Insincerity Thread".  You could start one tho.

Stop trolling.  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

But you're so good at it! 

Between y'all and the French Open, my head's a-spinnin'.

 

 

No Fed. No likey. No Tourney!

 

Hail. 

[sacase]

2 hours ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

When they all seem to be leaving meetings with Russian officials off their SF-86 the week of meeting with Russian officials, that qualifies for deception. And that certainly will have the FBI on you 

 

You know this though. You know how serious SF-86 forms are taken. 

 

And yes, deliberate deception is a federal crime. 

 

"I have read the instructions and I understand that if I withhold, misrepresent, or falsify information on this form, I am subject to the penalties for inaccurate or false statement (per U.S. Criminal Code, Title 18, section 1001), denial or revocation of a security clearance, and/or removal and debarment from Federal service.”

Ok I deal with this stuff regularly. Leaving something off your SF-86 is only going to have the investigator ask specific questions. People make mistakes on their SF-86 all the time, its normal because it covers a long period of time and people forget stuff. Now if you lie to the investigator, then that makes it harder for them to give you your clearence depending on what you are lying about. 

 

As far as foreign contacts, it takes about close and continuing contacts. If these are meetings with various people then that doesn't fall into close and continuing contact with a SPECIFIC foreign national. If someone doesn't report one meeting then no big deal. I don't know the specifics of their SF86 issues. 

 

As far as someone going to jail. It will never happen, as in EVER. The ONLY way they are going to send someone to jail is if they have a serious case against them already and they are looking to stack charges. That's it. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

If leftists were as eager to propose a response as they were to swipe at Trump we'd maybe be better off.  Not worrying and assuring everyone of tolerance isn't a response.  It's nice but it's not a plan to deal with terrorism.  Might as well propose increasing hugs by 30%.

How about targeted killing, including of the most wanted terrorist on the planet, high-level surveillance, intense efforts to assist allied military and intelligence, attempts to identify and dissuade the root causes of terrorism, etc?

 

And I'll add that two very legitimate criticisms of Obama's administration could be foreign policy and overly-idealistic thinking. This characterization is nowhere near real life though and, I'd also add, at least he HAD a plan. Whereas you have the current, GOP elected president repeatedly claiming that, since he knows more than the greatest military experts our country has to offer, he knew of some magical method to instantly defeat ISIS that he couldn't provide one ounce of substance for. And you know what, that isn't a gross mischaracterization.  That isn't a mischaracterization at all. That's exactly what happened. Un-****ing believable.

[sacase]

3 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

What would you say to someone who reads this as "them" = Muslims? Does that reader have it right?

 

Either way, would you elaborate?

My question is why are they assuming that? People like to put themselves into a problem when they are not in it. Looking for reasons to be offended. We got to address the issue head on and stop with the faux offense that everyone likes to bring into issues. Them = Muslim Terrorists. 

 

The solution to the problem is not something that is going to be solved on a message board or with one person's views. Its not going to be solved with a conservative or liberal perspective. It has to be practical. The solution has to be something that is coordinated at multiple levels: Military, Social, Political, Immigration, Police, Cultural, and Religious level. Muslims have to be a serious part of the solution, in fact they need to lead the way. We have to stop tolerating the people who are preaching the hate. Much of this comes from Saudi Arabia. 

[SkinsHokieFan]

1 hour ago, sacase said:

Ok I deal with this stuff regularly. Leaving something off your SF-86 is only going to have the investigator ask specific questions. People make mistakes on their SF-86 all the time, its normal because it covers a long period of time and people forget stuff. Now if you lie to the investigator, then that makes it harder for them to give you your clearence depending on what you are lying about. 

 

As far as foreign contacts, it takes about close and continuing contacts. If these are meetings with various people then that doesn't fall into close and continuing contact with a SPECIFIC foreign national. If someone doesn't report one meeting then no big deal. I don't know the specifics of their SF86 issues. 

 

As far as someone going to jail. It will never happen, as in EVER. The ONLY way they are going to send someone to jail is if they have a serious case against them already and they are looking to stack charges. That's it. 

 

There is accidently leaving stuff off, like hey I met with some French guy 3 years ago, and there is Kushner and Sessions leaving off meetings with Russian foreign/intel contacts post election. That is deception. 

 

And you know as well as anyone how big of a deal deception is in gaining a clearance. It doesn't matter what you did, so long as you reveal what you did, or who you met with or who your contacts are. Leaving it off, as Kushner and Sessions both did with the Russians specifically, is what gets you in trouble.

 

It isn't like these were meetings 3 years prior, these were meetings quite possibly the same day they were filling out SF-86 forms.

 

If suddenly 1 meeting with a hostile intel agency a week prior is no big deal, I sure as hell went through quite a bit more hell with my process then I needed to 

 

[sacase]

31 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

There is accidently leaving stuff off, like hey I met with some French guy 3 years ago, and there is Kushner and Sessions leaving off meetings with Russian foreign/intel contacts post election. That is deception. 

 

And you know as well as anyone how big of a deal deception is in gaining a clearance. It doesn't matter what you did, so long as you reveal what you did, or who you met with or who your contacts are. Leaving it off, as Kushner and Sessions both did with the Russians specifically, is what gets you in trouble.

 

It isn't like these were meetings 3 years prior, these were meetings quite possibly the same day they were filling out SF-86 forms.

 

If suddenly 1 meeting with a hostile intel agency a week prior is no big deal, I sure as hell went through quite a bit more hell with my process then I needed to 

 

We just don't know. Just as easy as it could be same day, it could be the day after. Leaving something off the SF86 is really no big deal. If the information is out there then the investigator will ask. If they disclosed it to the investigator, no harm no foul. Additionally, when you get to that level in government the adjudicative guidelines really don't apply to you. There are many politicians who should not have clearances but do on both sides of the political spectrum. Once again we are making mountains out of mole hills. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

19 minutes ago, sacase said:

We just don't know. Just as easy as it could be same day, it could be the day after. Leaving something off the SF86 is really no big deal. If the information is out there then the investigator will ask. If they disclosed it to the investigator, no harm no foul. Additionally, when you get to that level in government the adjudicative guidelines really don't apply to you. There are many politicians who should not have clearances but do on both sides of the political spectrum. Once again we are making mountains out of mole hills. 

 

Kinda like emails? 

 

I am sorry, when it comes to what was happening with Russia the fact that the meetings with russian intel was left off is a major sign of deception. 

 

This is isn't a no harm no foul type situation. Leaving off the friend on Facebook you met while studying abroad in France is no harm no foul, not meeting with a hostile intel org

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[sacase]

11 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

Kinda like emails? 

 

I am sorry, when it comes to what was happening with Russia the fact that the meetings with russian intel was left off is a major sign of deception. 

 

This is isn't a no harm no foul type situation. Leaving off the friend on Facebook you met while studying abroad in France is no harm no foul, not meeting with a hostile intel org

Once again you are assuming a lot. I have been doing this stuff for over 20 years. To many times in my career I have seen a lot of stuff look bad and turns out to be nothing. None of us have enough information to make that call. Unless you have seen exactly what is on the SF86 or what was talked about with the investigator then you just don't know. Additionally, it looks like an FBI employee helped him fill out his SF86. I am neutral on this because both sides have agendas to push and both will lie their asses off. If they come back and said he did something intentional cool. If not cool. Until then not going to worry about it as it is nothing. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Can you all take the security clearance, etc crap to a more approriate thread please?

[Est.1974]

On 30 May 2017 at 9:58 PM, Jumbo said:

Hats off to Grande who will return to have her "One Love Manchester" concert in memoriam to those killed, the proceeds to go to the families, and she'll be joined by Pharrell, Katy Perry, Usher, and others. She also said that the victims will be in her heart and mind every day. Of course her pain is not to be "compared" to those who lost family or friend, but I'd figure this to be a very disturbing and haunting memory for most folk in her position. I admire and respect her response. Pretty young to pull such stuff together so well so soon.

 

Grande has shown incredible class through this. Great, emotional concert tonight. That was an inspiring event in the circumstances.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zoony]

10 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

What's your solution?

 

I think the UK Prime Minister was on point with her comments.

 

Make their safe spaces go away.  Raid every single mosque in England.  Deport every single fundamentalist (not just radical) Muslim you possbly can, imprison the rest.  They havent commited a crime?  Tough ****.  Your words are now illegal.  Eliminate their websites, patrol facebook for anyone posting or condoning fundamentalism and lock them up or deport them. 

 

This is no different than the Germans outlawing Hate Speech against Jews after WW2.  

 

And here is the unwanted truth of all this... these methods DO and WILL work.  We just need the fortitude to implement them.  These animals dont deserve the rights of a society they are intent on destroying

 

Muslims will have the opportunity to practice a tolerant and modern form of their religion.  Fundamentalism will henceforth be illegal, period

[StillUnknown]

21 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I think the UK Prime Minister was on point with her comments.

 

Make their safe spaces go away.  Raid every single mosque in England.  Deport every single fundamentalist (not just radical) Muslim you possbly can, imprison the rest.  They havent commited a crime?  Tough ****.  Your words are now illegal.  Eliminate their websites, patrol facebook for anyone posting or condoning fundamentalism and lock them up or deport them. 

 

This is no different than the Germans outlawing Hate Speech against Jews after WW2.  

 

And here is the unwanted truth of all this... these methods DO and WILL work.  We just need the fortitude to implement them.  These animals dont deserve the rights of a society they are intent on destroying

 

Muslims will have the opportunity to practice a tolerant and modern form of their religion.  Fundamentalism will henceforth be illegal, period

 

lol

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

41 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I think the UK Prime Minister was on point with her comments. .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After Manchester she was. Today she was just doing crass campaigning for Thursday's election in outlining anti-terror measures praying on heightened fears that we'll get if we vote her in. Blame the Internet and deflect from all the agency cuts I made. Political dog-whistling at it's finest. 

 

What she also failed to add is she spent 6 years as Home Secretary through which she cut police numbers by 20,000. The Police and security agencies warned her 'Cuts = More attacks'. But she still decimated Police numbers. Now, she's on the anti-Terror offensive. 

 

And don't get me started on her dealings with Saudi Arabi and the non-publication of the terrorist funding report from the Home Office on what we made from arms sales under her time as Home Secretary. 

 

Sorry z, I know this isn't souly related to your post. Just we go the polls this Thursday and the fascist biatch's desperate lies and B/S are getting worse. 

 

Hail. 

 

*Edit* All after there was supposed to be 'no Political campaigning/ a pause in campaigning ' after the tragedies ..... 

 

'Campaigning will be suspended AFTER I've made this campaign speech blaming the Internet and saying nothing on the cuts I made for this to happen on my watch.'  

 

Classless two faced wench.  

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

I think the UK Prime Minister was on point with her comments.

 

Make their safe spaces go away.  Raid every single mosque in England.  Deport every single fundamentalist (not just radical) Muslim you possbly can, imprison the rest.  They havent commited a crime?  Tough ****.  Your words are now illegal.  Eliminate their websites, patrol facebook for anyone posting or condoning fundamentalism and lock them up or deport them. 

 

This is no different than the Germans outlawing Hate Speech against Jews after WW2.  

 

And here is the unwanted truth of all this... these methods DO and WILL work.  We just need the fortitude to implement them.  These animals dont deserve the rights of a society they are intent on destroying

 

Muslims will have the opportunity to practice a tolerant and modern form of their religion.  Fundamentalism will henceforth be illegal, period

This is you being serious, isn't it?

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Springfield]

2 hours ago, zoony said:

 

I think the UK Prime Minister was on point with her comments.

 

Make their safe spaces go away.  Raid every single mosque in England.  Deport every single fundamentalist (not just radical) Muslim you possbly can, imprison the rest.  They havent commited a crime?  Tough ****.  Your words are now illegal.  Eliminate their websites, patrol facebook for anyone posting or condoning fundamentalism and lock them up or deport them. 

 

This is no different than the Germans outlawing Hate Speech against Jews after WW2.  

 

And here is the unwanted truth of all this... these methods DO and WILL work.  We just need the fortitude to implement them.  These animals dont deserve the rights of a society they are intent on destroying

 

Muslims will have the opportunity to practice a tolerant and modern form of their religion.  Fundamentalism will henceforth be illegal, period

 

What are you going to do in America, if these are American citizens?  What are we going to do about about fundamentalist christians?

 

Would we imprison American citizens Muslim and Christian because of fundamentalist views?

 

 

I don't dispute that your methods would be effective, but I'd be very concerned about ceding my basic rights to the government.  For all I know, the government is watching what we post here (anonymously, but what's anonymous these days?) and they'll take exception to stuff I've said about Trump.  Lock me up.

 

Plus, the federal government has never been one to simply give rights back after they've taken them away.