Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[goskins10]

22 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I agree. I can't believe our fans are reacting like this. They should have been Yankee fans during the G. Steinberger years and the Yanks still won. The Redskins will recover from this. Bottom line from a recovering alcoholic. I have lost jobs, smashed up cars and had blackouts lasting days among other things so if SM was drinking, when he knew he was a alcoholic, then he got what he deserved. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before it sinks in that you cannot pick up a drink or a drug. I hope this is it for him. If he knew he had a problem with booze and he picked up, when we needed him most, then he is a selfish jerk. It is not up to DS to fix SM it is up to SM to fix himself.

 

First, and I mean this sincerely - congratulations on your sobriety. It's an extremely difficult thing to do. What a great feeling of having control of your life back.

 

I have lost several friends and family members to this disease. There are so many things people have no idea about when it comes to alcoholism. All this talk of why didn't they do something sooner if it was a problem ignores the fact that there most alcoholics do not walk around drunk like most people going to bars on Sat. night. They can drink quite a bit and only family and close friends can even tell and sometimes even they can't tell. But what happens is it builds over time and there start to be signs.

 

I am in no way saying the team is blameless here. As it seems with this team they seem to manage to handle most situations in the worst way possible. Having said that, they could have tried and we would not and should not know about it. My guess is they really wanted to get through FA and the draft and reassess the situation hopefully salvaging the relationship. But once Scot left Redskins Park and was not at the combine - and please be clear - the facts as they are being reported from several sources are that it was his decision to not attend the combine - that forced action by the team.

 

I was glad they hired Scot and I believe he contributed a lot to the team. The back end of the roster is much stronger which has materialized in a great improvement in STs. He did a great job of finding midseason replacements for injured players. But he now must take care of himself personally. I truly hope he gets help. He has a talent that not many people in the world have. I hope he gets another chance to use it.

 

But it was a high risk high reward hire. I hope that once people step back from the emotion of it, they will see the team had to separate. Again, could it have been handled in a more graceful manner? Of course. Graceful just does not seem to be the DNA of this organization. It didn't work out in the long run.

 

The good news and there is some good news - they are a Terrell Pryor and Cousins LTD away from being in a pretty good place. Get a day one starter for the DLine from the draft - maybe 2 and the team will surprise people.  

 

I along with others do not want Bruce Allen as the GM. They need to find another GM. But think about this. What led to Scot being here in the first place? Shanny was fired and Bruce knew he needed help with player evaluation. He used Scot's services while working on hiring him. So he knows he needs help. He knows he can't do this on his own.

 

My hope is they reach out and get someone that's never been a GM but is ready. There are at least a dozen guys out there ready to be a GM.

 

Now go get Pryor!  

 

 

[Stadium-Armory]

Just win baby.

[ThomasTomasz]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

At this point who gets the blame and credit is sort of irrelevant. It's how it's been handled that's the most troubling. 

 

And the timing suggests disagreement/problems with the process with Cousins specifically.

 

But who knows? Just very, very poorly handled.

 

Agreed, I'm not even concerned on the reasons anymore, or the disagreements.  I just don't understand the lack of professionalism, and it's clear to me that Snyder has no clue how to effectively lead.  It baffles me how he was successful enough in the first place to be able to buy the Redskins.

[zCommander]

10 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Just win baby.

 

The perfect cure for the blues.

 

What I don't understand is if Scot wanted to sign Kirk last year (as it was reported) and Bruce didn't then why was Kirk telling Scot - How do you like me now?

 

[TouchdownSkin]

11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

It was after the AFC Championship game, like I said.  It was a blowout.  The final score was 36-17.

 

If you had most front office people speak after any NFL game, it would quickly become obvious that they all like to drink during the game.

 

How many of those have lost their jobs due to drinking?

[ThomasTomasz]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

My hope is they reach out and get someone that's never been a GM but is ready. There are at least a dozen guys out there ready to be a GM.

 

Now go get Pryor!  

 

 

Great post first of all.  I only highlight this part because it's what I want to discuss.  Why would any of them come to DC to partake in this dysfunction?  We couldn't get an above average defensive coordinator candidate because the feeling was that the coach was in a lame-duck situation.  Now, even though that's technically "take care of" you have the Redskins come out and once again, prove they are an organization of dysfunction, lacking professionalism in how they handled this.  Why be a part of this voluntarily?

 

While I do subscribe in many instances that there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs, or only 32 "GM level" jobs available, and that someone in that group that's ready to be a HC or GM would be foolish to turn them down, why go to the Redskins?  Too many careers have been derailed or ended in Washington.  Why join a team with a meddling owner, who in part hired Bruce Allen because of who is father is?  To me, I'd rather be the assistant GM of the Patriots, Steelers, Packers or Ravens, and keep waiting for another team to call, than to try and work out this mess in Washington. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So, if the rumors are true that McCloughan's drinking was impacting his job this makes a little more sense. He should own some of the responsibility here for sure. 

 

BUT the dysfunction of this organization is still the reason that the only talented GM we could get to come here is one with baggage. So, at a macro level, this still comes back to Snyder. We had to get someone who was more likely to implode or have issues. So, when it happens, it's unfortunate but a product of the environment that Snyder has cultivated. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So, if the rumors are true that McCloughan's drinking was impacting his job this makes a little more sense. He should own some of the responsibility here for sure. 

 

BUT the dysfunction of this organization is still the reason that the only talented GM we could get to come here is one with baggage. So, at a macro level, this still comes back to Snyder. We had to get someone who was more likely to implode or have issues. So, when it happens, it's unfortunate but a product of the environment that Snyder has cultivated. 

[ThomasTomasz]

10 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

My hope is they reach out and get someone that's never been a GM but is ready. There are at least a dozen guys out there ready to be a GM.

 

Now go get Pryor!  

 

 

Great post first of all.  I only highlight this part because it's what I want to discuss.  Why would any of them come to DC to partake in this dysfunction?  We couldn't get an above average defensive coordinator candidate because the feeling was that the coach was in a lame-duck situation.  Now, even though that's technically "take care of" you have the Redskins come out and once again, prove they are an organization of dysfunction, lacking professionalism in how they handled this. 

 

While I do subscribe in many instances that there are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs, or only 32 "GM level" jobs available, and that someone in that group that's ready to be a HC or GM would be foolish to turn them down, why go to the Redskins?  Too many careers have been derailed or ended in Washington.  Why join a team with a meddling owner, who in part hired Bruce Allen because of who is father is?  To me, I'd rather be the assistant GM of the Patriots, Steelers, Packers or Ravens, and keep waiting for another team to call, than to try and work out this mess in Washington. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

And, may I ask, one's environment, or otherwise the surroundings, are huge factors to someone with addiction, yes? 

 

One might say that stress, or strife, or conflict, are not helpful things to someone who uses chemicals to offset such things as stress? 

 

When stress becomes intertwined with the work environment, with one's colleagues, would you say volatility would surely ensue? 

 

Now, if someone were to purposefully inflicting stress onto someone with addiction, volatility issues, how culpable is the inflictor? 

 

Hi and here is the bottom line. ALCOHOLICS DRINK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. They or you can make up all the excuses in the world but they are horse crap. If you know you are a alcoholic then you know you cannot even sip a beer. You can control it for awhile but sooner or later it will explode into a fight with the boss or your wife or your aunt Tilly and you will loose because you are drunk. Yes some nationalities have a higher degree of this disease and the Irish are right up there so even if SM was does not think he has a drinking problem then he is too dumb for words esp after loosing 2 other jobs.

[skinsmania123]

NFL Network currently destroying the Skins as they all pile on and rightfully so.  That it WAS a Power Struggle between Bruce Allen and GMSM.  

 

Thought they were CLOSE at the end of the year but they then let go of BOTH top receivers go not even keeping one

 

They let go of their ONLY decent DL player in Baker who signed a reasonable deal elsewhere

 

NO identity - like whose jersey do you wear to the game?  Reed's?  So NO player to identify with

 

They have to figure out who the hell they are and they can't.  Wondering how a receiver can possibly be committed to a QB  you are not committed to as FO.  Hey I am not a Cousin's fan BUT come on man get your finger out of your ass you piece of **** Allen and sign him or release him.  This is bull ****.

 

Anyway the summation is that the Skins have made poor decisions in FA signing low tier players while their competition is getting better.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

10 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

The perfect cure for the blues.

 

What I don't understand is if Scot wanted to sign Kirk last year (as it was reported) and Bruce didn't then why was Kirk telling Scot - How do you like me now?

 

My thought exactly..Kirk was yelling AT Scott with allot of passion...was it displaced?? They said 18 months of "hell". Was Scott telling players one thing (Baker, we'll take care of you) then run up against Allen and the CAP. As BAD as we've mismanaged the CAP in the past, I am GLAD Allen is pushing back..just how much he pushes may be the issue. Remember..the SKINs were where Over the Hill Players went to get paid...I'm GLAD that is over

[allskinz]

So Scot's grandma dies and they give him some time off to deal with the situation and spend time with the family.  That's understandable and it's great that the Redskins will work with employees when that happens.  What a great organization!

 

Oh crap, just read they fired Scot.  never mind.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dissident2]

3 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

My thought exactly..Kirk was yelling AT Scott with allot of passion...was it displaced?? They said 18 months of "hell". Was Scott telling players one thing (Baker, we'll take care of you) then run up against Allen and the CAP. As BAD as we've mismanaged the CAP in the past, I am GLAD Allen is pushing back..just how much he pushes may be the issue. Remember..the SKINs were where Over the Hill Players went to get paid...I'm GLAD that is over

 

I really think the whole "How you like me now" thing has been overthought. Who was Kirk "mad" at when he yelled "You like that" at a Comcast guy?  He yelled that with a lot of passion, too. The year before, he gave Snyder a noogie in the locker room that was very similar to what he did to SM. So I don't know, but I always took that to be just Kirk being Kirk, and Scot just happened to be the guy who bore the brunt of it because he'd come out there to congratulate Kirk. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Kirk sought him out. 

 

Ah, who knows/cares anymore? 

[JPG]

I'm finding it hard to figure out why being a talent evaluator in thd NFL is so difficult and how there is only a few in the world who can be good at it. 

[RemoveSnyder]

4 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Hi and here is the bottom line. ALCOHOLICS DRINK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.

 

I don't dismiss the notion that alcohol is mixed up in this McCloughan situation. But I don't subscribe that it was the only thing, nor even the apex culprit. 

 

Folks seem to have no problem going to the extreme castigation on McC as an alcoholic much more readily than seeing Allen as a flaming manipulative ****. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

So, if the rumors are true that McCloughan's drinking was impacting his job this makes a little more sense. He should own some of the responsibility here for sure. 

 

BUT the dysfunction of this organization is still the reason that the only talented GM we could get to come here is one with baggage. So, at a macro level, this still comes back to Snyder. We had to get someone who was more likely to implode or have issues. So, when it happens, it's unfortunate but a product of the environment that Snyder has cultivated. 

Not even close. He should own SOME responsibility? Are you kidding me? If SM is a alcoholic, and he sure fits the bill, then he knows he cannot drink period. It is not up to DS to make life more comfortable for SM if he drinks. DS is the boss. He signes the checks. BA may also be SM 's boss and it is their team and if they have a direction they want to follow then IT IS UP TO ALL EMPLOYEES TO FOLLOW IT OR GTFO.  Every business with a ton of employees has problems it is his job to help fix them not drink and make more of a mess. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Not even close. He should own SOME responsibility? Are you kidding me? If SM is a alcoholic, and he sure fits the bill, then he knows he cannot drink period. It is not up to DS to make life more comfortable for SM if he drinks. DS is the boss. He signes the checks. BA may also be SM 's boss and it is their team and if they have a direction they want to follow then IT IS UP TO ALL EMPLOYEES TO FOLLOW IT OR GTFO.  Every business with a ton of employees has problems it is his job to help fix them not drink and make more of a mess. 

 

From what I remember, he never quit drinking. This is a situation that Snyder and Allen went into knowingly. Had McCloughan promised them he wouldn't have another drop and then went back on that, it's a different dynamic. That wasn't the arrangement here. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

11 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

.....

 

Folks seem to have no problem going to the extreme castigation on McC as an alcoholic much more readily than seeing Allen as a flaming manipulative ****. 

 

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing this fast developing narrative from many the past 24 hours. 

 

Hail. 

[RemoveSnyder]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing this fast developing narrative from many the past 24 hours. 

 

Hail. 

 

It's the only story that will do if you're planning on still running the Redskins organization, or be a supporter for that matter. 

[HTTRDynasty]

This notion I've seen popping up that the Redskins were the only team to give a McCloughan a chance (and the implication that he should be falling over himself expressing his gratitude) is false.  He was in talks with the Jets and Oakland while we were trying to woo him here in 2015. 

[jadams5214]

To me the worst part of all this is how Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen are not forced to answer for their actions and at least explain things to everyone who supports this organization.

 

Think about it, after every game, especially losses, every single move made by Jay Gruden, every bad pass by Kirk Cousins is analyzed and dissected with a fine tooth comb.  After games the head coach and players are grilled about 'why not go for it on 4th and 2' 'why did you throw that pass into double coverage' and all sorts of questions relating to their decisions and actions.

 

Yet on one of the most tumultuous days in franchise history and owner and Team President can get away with not having to answer for their actions and at the very least explain their reasoning of how they handled recent events that put the organization in this position.  Even if no one liked the answers it's certainly reasonable to expect an explanation.  A terse couple sentence from Bruce Allen while taking no questions isn't anywhere near good enough.

 

And for the record I am not saying Scott McCloughan is innocent in all of this either.  For all the leaks that have surfaced from unnamed sources, in reality we still know very little of what actually happened which is the point.  When no one in power steps up to set the record straight all that's left is for everyone to take what little information comes out and create their own scenarios of what actually took place.

 

Owners like Jerry Jones and Mark Cuban are ridiculed for being outspoken and always on camera grabbing the headlines.  And sure they both take it way too far but one thing is for sure - if their franchises had this same type of scenario happening both would in front of the camera explaining their actions and answering questions.  Whether the media and fans liked the explanations or not is another issue but at least there would be some level of accountability.

 

Leadership is supposed to set an example for it's employees.  If Snyder and Bruce Allen refuse to explain and justify their actions why are the players and coaches expected to?  

 

On the surface it's tough to figure out how to hold the Redskins' power structure accountable as the fans or media cannot force them to answer questions.  But there are ways for the fans and media to put more pressure on ownership although it would never happen.  Of course fans could stop going to games, stop buying merchandise and such as everyone knows the one thing Snyder will respond to is something that influences the bottom line.

 

But the media has a role here too.  Imagine for example that at the upcoming press conferences for the Skin's new free agent signings if there was no local media to cover them?  No coverage at a Redskin's publicity event.  No reporters covering training camp.  That would hit home quite quickly and force Snyder and Allen to finally start explaining what in the world is going on behind the scenes.

 

Of course none of that is ever going to happen so it will continue to business as usual where Daniel Snyder and Bruce Allen can do whatever they want with no repercussions and never having to answer for or explain themselves to the very people that allow them to continue to operate in such a disingenuous manner....

[goskins10]

28 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

I don't dismiss the notion that alcohol is mixed up in this McCloughan situation. But I don't subscribe that it was the only thing, nor even the apex culprit. 

 

Folks seem to have no problem going to the extreme castigation on McC as an alcoholic much more readily than seeing Allen as a flaming manipulative ****. 

 

 

Both can be true and most likely are.

[clskinsfan]

34 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

I don't dismiss the notion that alcohol is mixed up in this McCloughan situation. But I don't subscribe that it was the only thing, nor even the apex culprit. 

 

Folks seem to have no problem going to the extreme castigation on McC as an alcoholic much more readily than seeing Allen as a flaming manipulative ****. 

 

You probably right on both accounts. But lets not forget that Scott was fired by two other teams for the same exact thing. If it was anyone else I wouldnt think it was the "apex culprit". But it is Scott. And alcoholism has been HIS apex culprit throughout his career.

 

Now. That doesnt excuse Allen from hiring him knowing about that background. It was a stupid move.

[RemoveSnyder]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

You probably right on both accounts. But lets not forget that Scott was fired by two other teams for the same exact thing. If it was anyone else I wouldnt think it was the "apex culprit". But it is Scott. And alcoholism has been HIS apex culprit throughout his career.

 

Alcohol was almost conclusively cited as the issue in San Fran, coinciding with a divorce if I recall correctly. The seattle thing was ambiguous, completely. Some intimation back to alcohol was there, but so was the idea that McC had grown tired of suppling others with great evals only to be buried somewhere like 10th string in the evaluator hierarchy. 

 

It seems a similar phenomenon is occurring here with the alcohol rumors to his draft prowess. Just like when McC was hired, many credited him with every good draft selection SF and seattle made, a bit too much credit. Just as here now, every issue of his seems to be attributed to alcohol. Again, similarly, maybe a bit too much demerit given.