Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, VRIEL1 said:

I was all in McCloughan's camp until I read today McCloughan was the one who wanted to trade Cousins. "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!" 

No idea if that report is true or not. Might be BS. Might not. No idea either way.

 

But after so many years of this team desperately needing a competent personnel guy in charge of the football operations, I hope people realize how pathetic it would be if we got one and then people celebrated ditching him because he was going to make a move those people disagreed with. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Wild story here by Russell that goes into Scot, Jay, Bruce, RG3 with a number of stories.    Whether true or not who knows but it's quite entertaining IMO.

 

https://www.dchotread.com/2017/03/11/rg-3-released

[VRIEL1]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

No idea if that report is true or not. Might be BS. Might not. No idea either way.

 

But after so many years of this team desperately needing a competent personnel guy in charge of the football operations, I hope people realize how pathetic it would be if we got one and then people celebrated ditching him because he was going to make a move those people disagreed with. 

 

IDK if it's true or not. Just saying I like Kirk, and think he is what this team has needed for a long time. Proven by his stats. But ....some here do not like stats cause it proves them wrong. 

 

I was siding with McCloughan during all this. I'm not an Allen fan. I think he does a good job with the numbers not so much with his draft picks. Others feel differently I know. I too felt McCloughan brought a little "professionalism" to the team. Why I was mad when they said they were firing him. Why I was mad when they wouldn't let him speak to the media. I agree....if this story is true then why hasn't DS signed Kirk already? Maybe thats what DS needs to do to save face. IDK. 

[ANONYMOUS SOURCE.]

I don't think too much can be gleaned from the "how you like me know"  bit. Kirks is a bit psycho when he's pumped up, the guy shoved a volunteer ref during a flag football game after all .?

[SkinsPassion4Life]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wild story here by Russell that goes into Scot, Jay, Bruce, RG3 with a number of stories.    Whether true or not who knows but it's quite entertaining IMO.

 

https://www.dchotread.com/2017/03/11/rg-3-released

 

This is just ridiculous....once again, I don't blame Snyder at all in this article....I just spent a ton to trade for RG3....he was amazing his rookie year.....and by year 3, AJ Smith is telling me he's a scrub?    why the hell would I hire him?     We know how it's turned out for RG3, but at the time, I would have done the same thing as Dan

[Andre The Giant]

1 minute ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

This is just ridiculous....once again, I don't blame Snyder at all in this article....I just spent a ton to trade for RG3....he was amazing his rookie year.....and by year 3, AJ Smith is telling me he's a scrub?    why the hell would I hire him?     We know how it's turned out for RG3, but at the time, I would have done the same thing as Dan

 

Then you would have been wrong, just like Snyder.  He needs to listen to his football people and get out of the way. He's the biggest problem. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, ANONYMOUS SOURCE. said:

I don't think too much can be gleaned from the "how you like me know"  bit. Kirks is a bit psycho when he's pumped up, the guy shoved a volunteer ref during a flag football game after all .?

 

Mike Jones said Kirk thinks Scot thinks his ceiling is lower than what Jay thinks it is -- so he has a little bit I'll show you streak in their relationship.  But according to Jones its all in good spirits and that Kirk likes Scot.  Jones says its Bruce who has been the obstacle in resigning Kirk.

 

My whole thing if its Scot that's the obstacle -- then Bruce get the deal done he's had about 2 weeks now without Scot, and the rumors of Kirk being unhappy has intensified a lot during that period let alone gotten better.  So I am dubious about Bruce being the good guy as for the Kirk negotiations.  Having said that, I'd love it if Scot was the bad guy and Bruce the good guy on this front -- it would make me feel better about where things are headed with Kirk.  But at the moment, Mike Jones version of whats happened (Chuck Sapienza said his sources have told him the same) which is that Bruce has been the problem so far seems to be more feasible -- the proof is in the pudding.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Just now, Andre The Giant said:

 

Then you would have been wrong, just like Snyder.  He needs to listen to his football people and get out of the way. He's the biggest problem. 

 

There is not one owner that in 2014 would have accepted that RG3 sucks....not one....especially after his rookie year and what they gave up for him.

 

 

[Andre The Giant]

Other owners listen to their football people. The reason we didn't sign Kirk to the extension last year was because Snyder said "No.". He didn't want Shanny to be right about Kirk. Now look how much trouble THAT decision has caused. 

[rumplestilskin]

All this Bruce this and Scott that conjecture  is all fluff. Show Kirk 24 mill a year and he would play for anybody. Period

[ncr2h]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Jones said Kirk thinks Scot thinks his ceiling is lower than what Jay thinks it is -- so he has a little bit I'll show you streak in their relationship.  But according to Jones its all in good spirits and that Kirk likes Scot.  Jones says its Bruce who has been the obstacle in resigning Kirk.

 

My whole thing if its Scot that's the obstacle -- then Bruce get the deal done he's had about 2 weeks now without Scot, and the rumors of Kirk being unhappy has intensified a lot during that period let alone gotten better.  So I am dubious about Bruce being the good guy as for the Kirk negotiations.  Having said that, I'd love it if Scot was the bad guy and Bruce the good guy on this front -- it would make me feel better about where things are headed with Kirk.  But at the moment, Mike Jones version of whats happened (Chuck Sapienza said his sources have told him the same) which is that Bruce has been the problem so far seems to be more feasible -- the proof is in the pudding.

 

Yeah, I agree with you.  The Russel article that you just posted basically backed up my previous suspicion, which was that McLoughan was a Kirk doubter dating back all the way to his hiring.  I had assumed that he was hired in part because he believed RG3 could be salvaged, hence RG3 winning the "open" QB competition in February just a few weeks after Gruden had announced it.

 

But it's hard for me to imagine that McLoughan was anti-Kirk if McLoughan has been out of the loop for weeks and Kirk still doesn't have a deal.  So I'm officially on board with Bruce being the problem, rather than McLoughan (unless Kirk is signed to a deal very soon).

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Jones said Kirk thinks Scot thinks his ceiling is lower than what Jay thinks it is -- so he has a little bit I'll show you streak in their relationship.  But according to Jones its all in good spirits and that Kirk likes Scot.  Jones says its Bruce who has been the obstacle in resigning Kirk.

 

My whole thing if its Scot that's the obstacle -- then Bruce get the deal done he's had about 2 weeks now without Scot, and the rumors of Kirk being unhappy has intensified a lot during that period let alone gotten better.  So I am dubious about Bruce being the good guy as for the Kirk negotiations.  Having said that, I'd love it if Scot was the bad guy and Bruce the good guy on this front -- it would make me feel better about where things are headed with Kirk.  But at the moment, Mike Jones version of whats happened (Chuck Sapienza said his sources have told him the same) which is that Bruce has been the problem so far seems to be more feasible -- the proof is in the pudding.

 

Bruce can take credit for Kirk. If the grab for credit is true, then Bruce would more likely be on the Kirk bandwagon. Also, Scot making statements that you can't tie that much cap on a single player and most of the negative reports in the media coming from Scot connected reporters, make the story more plausible. Also, as far as getting a deal done now, Kirk has absolutely no incentive. Unless the Redskins are going to overpay to quiet the noise. Almost all franchise tag deals get done in July before the deadline once the player has signed the tender. I don't recall any LTD getting done before the summer for a franchise tagged player in recent memory. By July, the noise will have subsided, the 49ers will have 3 or more QBs on their roster and the prospect of a long term deal are better.

[Rufus T Firefly]

10 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

There is not one owner that in 2014 would have accepted that RG3 sucks....not one....especially after his rookie year and what they gave up for him.

Don't know if that's true. Tend to doubt it. But it's irrelevant.

 

The more important point is there isn't a smart owner anywhere in the league who would fire football men rather than listen to their opinions. 

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

All this Bruce this and Scott that conjecture  is all fluff. Show Kirk 24 mill a year and he would play for anybody. Period

 

Im more inclined to believe this than a grown man getting his feelings hurt to where he tried to hold a front  office guys job hostage. 

 

[SoCalSkins]

5 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Other owners listen to their football people. The reason we didn't sign Kirk to the extension last year was because Snyder said "No.". He didn't want Shanny to be right about Kirk. Now look how much trouble THAT decision has caused. 

 

You don't name him the starter in 2015 without signing him to a team friendly extension you can exit. He doesn't sign, he doesn't start. That is what legitimate football people do. You never let a starting qb get to a point here he is a UFA. That's on both Scot and Bruce. Huge screw up.

[ncr2h]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Don't know if that's true. Tend to doubt it. But it's irrelevant.

 

The more important point is there isn't a smart owner anywhere in the league who would fire football men rather than listen to their opinions. 

Yeah, Snyder is famous for "opinion shopping" with his personnel guys.

 

"Who should we roll with, Campbell or Collins?"

Williams: Collins

Zorn: Campbell

Snyder: Zorn it is!  This guy's a great coach, I tell ya.  He's the one we need here.

 

"So...what do you think about RG3?"

Jay Gruden: He's a real great prospect.  Ya know what, within 24 hours of hiring me you can bet I'll name him the day 1 starter.

Snyder: Hello everyone, I'd like to announce our new coach.  Last name Gruden.  First name starts with a J.  He's one of the best in the business.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

But it's hard for me to imagine that McLoughan was anti-Kirk if McLoughan has been out of the loop for weeks and Kirk still doesn't have a deal.  So I'm officially on board with Bruce being the problem, rather than McLoughan (unless Kirk is signed to a deal very soon).

 

Are you saying that it was less important to think about the combine, FA, Pro Day, etc and the FO should have been concentrating on Kirk signed up on a LTD?

 

Don't get me wrong: All I am saying is that there is a lot of times left before they have to make the decision on a LTD. I know many here are VERY anxious but I take the off-season like I do every year: One day at a time. 

 

If the FO aka Bruce doesn't want Kirk here next year than it is what it is and they are looking at the QB class for next year already then. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Bruce can take credit for Kirk. If the grab for credit is true, then Bruce would more likely be on the Kirk bandwagon. Also, Scot making statements that you can't tie that much cap on a single player and most of the negative reports in the media coming from Scot connected reporters, make the story more plausible. Also, as far as getting a deal done now, Kirk has absolutely no incentive. Unless the Redskins are going to overpay to quiet the noise. Almost all franchise tag deals get done in July before the deadline once the player has signed the tender. I don't recall any LTD getting done before the summer for a franchise tagged player in recent memory. By July, the noise will have subsided, the 49ers will have 3 or more QBs on their roster and the prospect of a long term deal are better.

 

Bruce more likely on the Kirk bandwagon?  

 

I recall for years reporters saying Bruce is a big Colt guy.  The narrative I keep hearing on Kirk is some in the building think Colt could do just as good of a job as Kirk.

 

Bruce is the money guy not Scot.  Bruce takes pride in being cheap.   So far the gap has been the FO not paying Kirk fair market value

 

The story about Kirk becoming the starter involved Scot and Jay standing on the table for him.  Not Bruce.

 

Then there is all this smoke about Bruce.  3 different people with sources to the team especially Jones said Bruce has been the obstacle.  And I am not even getting into the rumor stuff this week aimed at Bruce.

 

But to me the kicker above all is while I don't think Scot was the obstacle and Bruce has been on the Kirk train based on digesting everything out there.  I see the logic in thinking its Scot that's the obstacle.  I don't rule it out.  So I have an open mind on it.  But if Bruce is the Kirk bandwagon then what the heck is going on?  Ever since Bruce took the reigns -- publicly the Kirk stuff has gone big time downhill as opposed to being on the rise.

 

Yeah I agree the stuff on Scot-Kirk is a mixed bag, some pro, some anti.  Some of the pro included Scot saying Kirk is one of the best players on the team and him telling Bleacher Report that if Kirk does play well on the tag he knows he'd have to overpay Kirk and he's fine with that.  That story is consistent with Chuck Sapienza who last night said he heard Scot told Bruce at the end of the 2016 season, ok lets pay Kirk now and Bruce balked.  All of that could be untrue -- but if so Bruce has the floor and at best he's off to a stumbling start at least publicly.

[VRIEL1]

14 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

There is not one owner that in 2014 would have accepted that RG3 sucks....not one....especially after his rookie year and what they gave up for him.

 

 

 

I would agree that any owner or any one of us whom traded away and spent as much as they did for RG3 would have done everything possible to prove others that they were wrong about my choice. However, it's pretty bad when half of us non coaches saw the writing on the wall the year RG3 refused to play in a college style offense and wanted to play in a pro style offense. 

 

I personally think RG3 fell into the same catagory as Jason Cambell. Someone who could have been really good as long as they started out behind someone else for several years learning how to play in a pro style offense before being thrown to the wolves. Instead...thrown to the wolves and became damaged goods. 

[VRIEL1]

15 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Bruce can take credit for Kirk. If the grab for credit is true, then Bruce would more likely be on the Kirk bandwagon. Also, Scot making statements that you can't tie that much cap on a single player and most of the negative reports in the media coming from Scot connected reporters, make the story more plausible. Also, as far as getting a deal done now, Kirk has absolutely no incentive. Unless the Redskins are going to overpay to quiet the noise. Almost all franchise tag deals get done in July before the deadline once the player has signed the tender. I don't recall any LTD getting done before the summer for a franchise tagged player in recent memory. By July, the noise will have subsided, the 49ers will have 3 or more QBs on their roster and the prospect of a long term deal are better.

 

If I'm Kirk I wouldn't settle for a penny less. lol. The team low balled him last year. Pundits came out and said teams know a franchise QB will eat up 15% of their CAP. The team offered what ...15 or 16 mill. Per the CAP 15% would have been 20 mill a year. Instead the team tagged him and over paid him by 4 mill ( they didn't have a problem doing that). This year 15% of the CAP should put him around 24 mill a year, but again the team seems to prefer to tag Kirk and pay him roughly 4 mill over what he should be getting. One would think giving him a LTD would save them money. lol. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

All this Bruce this and Scott that conjecture  is all fluff. Show Kirk 24 mill a year and he would play for anybody. Period

 

It's not really fluff IMO because there is a bottom line that speaks to all of this. 

 

Bruce the floor is yours, if you are the big Kirk guy than put to rest all the crazy stories (including Kirk won't play for the team as long as he's president) and pay the dude 24-25 million a year and end this.   Until Bruce does so, to me there is some substance behind Bruce being the obstacle.  And by Bruce it could just be him fronting for Dan.  The Dan Snyder we know if he wants his man, he gets his man.

 

So I don't really see this as an abstract debate.   What we are talking about is being played out every day.  

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, VRIEL1 said:

 

If I'm Kirk I wouldn't settle for a penny less. lol. The team low balled him last year. Pundits came out and said teams know a franchise QB will eat up 15% of their CAP. The team offered what ...15 or 16 mill. Per the CAP 15% would have been 20 mill a year. Instead the team tagged him and over paid him by 4 mill ( they didn't have a problem doing that). This year 15% of the CAP should put him around 24 mill a year, but again the team seems to prefer to tag Kirk and pay him roughly 4 mill over what he should be getting. One would think giving him a LTD would save them money. lol. 

 

He would say no to that offer now and would try and get more. The offer would still be on the table in July no matter what the Skins say. The leaks seem to base his opening number at 24 plus the 35 franchise tag number in 2018. That's where the 60 million over the first two years is based.

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

What about Kirk saying "how you like me now" to Scot on national TV? Doesn't that tell a different story?

 

Jason Cole is Scot's mouthpiece. See the exclusive and rare interview below.  Don't see why Jason would lie about it.  Jason Cole was also on the radio with Sheehan and Cooley bad mouthing Kirk.  Not saying he was garbage but something to the effect that Kirk was not worth top QB money.  (Mike Jones admitted that SM felt that way in his interview with Sheehan last week) Still doesn't let Bruce Allen off the hook.  He can't even get his name right.  Called him Kurt 3 times at the senior bowl. 

 

The only real good guy here is Jay Gruden.  Which was the Redskin's smartest move (extending him) in trying to sign Kir(k) to a LTD.  And i think that even penny pincher Bruce has no choice now but to get a deal done.  That is the only way he survives the fallout. 

 

http://www.scout.com/nfl/redskins/story/1660072-mccloughan-speaks-gut-calls-cousins-deal

[JPG]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wild story here by Russell that goes into Scot, Jay, Bruce, RG3 with a number of stories.    Whether true or not who knows but it's quite entertaining IMO.

 

https://www.dchotread.com/2017/03/11/rg-3-released

 I just feel like I wasted my time reading that. Is he insinuating that we would bring Griffin back? That would be most absurd suggestion I have heard so far.

[Conn]

We haven't offered him $24 million/year yet or he'd be signed. It's that simple imo. 

 

So blame who you want for him not being signed while Scot was here but Scot is gone now.

 

Kirk not being signed right now is on Allen. Seems to me it's Allen who doesn't want to pay him, then.