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Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

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Just now, RedskinsFan44 said:

LOL, you really believe that?

 

what do you believe? (setting your preconceptions and bias aside)

 

were his interactions with the investigation the actions of someone that knew they were guilty?

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3 hours ago, Hooper said:

It is very possible -- if not likely -- that the media spent the past two years breathlessly connecting way too many dots.

 

I don't think so.

 

What we're going to find out, probably, is that Mueller chose to interpret and exercise his powers very narrowly.  His core mandate was investigation.  He was authorized to prosecute where he felt it necessary, but Mueller was not required to.  That includes conspiracy based offenses.

 

I think we all got carried away thinking Mueller was going to be doing all the prosecutions himself, or at least be involved all the way to the end.

 

In reality, what Mueller did was investigate, indicting where he needed to in order to continue investigating.  The indictments so far were not the "end" itself, but a means to an end.

 

Now he's handed things off to a whole ton of other jurisdictions.  Rick Gates being handed off is a huge tell that the work of the OSC continues through DOJ main and various other offices.

 

So I think those connected dots will be seen bearing fruit still.

 

 

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Flynn cooperated like a innocent man because he thought he was.

He lied to the FBI...and then plead guilty to doing so...

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1 minute ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

 

 

He lied to the FBI...and then plead guilty to doing so...

 

Yes

 

Did he knowingly lie?

 

seems odd he would volunteer what he said w/o compulsion

 

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Quote

He specifically admitted to lying about asking the Russian ambassador to refrain from responding to Obama administration sanctions against Russia for its election interference and further requested Russia help block a United Nations vote on Israeli settlements which the incoming administration didn't agree with. Flynn also agreed that he lied about his lobbying activities in federal filings related to work on behalf of the Republic of Turkey throughout the 2016 campaign.

 

I don't see how you don't knowingly lie about this.

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25 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Flynn cooperated like a innocent man because he thought he was.

Do you make continuous fart noises with your mouth while you post?

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5 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

I don't see how you don't knowingly lie about this.

 

pretty sure he told the agents from the beginning exactly what they discussed, including the part that was deemed a lie,,,,,hopefully the report will be released.


 

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Yes.

 

https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download

 

Stop sealioning for two minutes and read the guilty plea.

 

Dog of War I've read it, and know what he pleaded to and why along with already stating he was guilty......try taking your blinders off.

 

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Flynn: "I knowingly lied to the FBI."

TWA: "Yeah so, it's pretty clear he didn't knowingly lie to the FBI, y'all such wacky leftys."

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After yesterday, I’m just going to hold tight waiting for some concrete information.  Then, I’ll draw my conclusions based on that.

 

Essentially, I have a report from the intelligence agencies that stated: One, the Russians did try to interefere in our election.  Two, that interference favored Donald Trump.

 

Now, my hope is that the Mueller report gives some clarity to the mechanisms that made that happen.

 

 

A real president would be trying to shore up our election process right now.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Springfield said:

After yesterday, I’m just going to hold tight waiting for some concrete information.  Then, I’ll draw my conclusions based on that.

 

Essentially, I have a report from the intelligence agencies that stated: One, the Russians did try to interefere in our election.  Two, that interference favored Donald Trump.

 

Now, my hope is that the Mueller report gives some clarity to the mechanisms that made that happen.

 

 

A real president would be trying to shore up our election process right now.

Witch hunt!!!!!! (Though he is surprisingly silent now that the rubber is meeting the road)

Edited by RedskinsFan44

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1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Do you make continuous fart noises with your mouth while you post?

And that is putting what comes out of his mouth nicely. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I said looks like, looks like, looks like... a little thick

Your "looks like" suggested there was some conclusions as to the results of the Mueller investigation that could be drawn by its termination before any official statements as to its findings. I disagree.

Edited by RedskinsFan44
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Posted (edited)

WPeople who are guilty willingly talk to investigators all the time, that’s how most cases get solved... eg, guilty people get convicted. Investors have evidence, but not enough evidence to convict, guilty party talks to investigators and gives them what they need to convict.

 

 

Having read the “statement of offense”  @DogofWar1 posted, it seems like:

 

Flynn is guilty of lying, not of talking with Russia. I think he called the Russian ambassador in good faith to try to lower the tensions/delay sanctions... but when asked about in during the investigation he lied about it because he was unsure if it was illegal or not. So, he did commit a crime... but he isn’t a guilty man.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Your "looks like" suggested there was some conclusions as to the results of the Mueller investigation that could be drawn by its termination before any official statements as to its findings. I disagree.

 

Keep up the faith! 

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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I mean it’s right wing rallies that still mindlessly chant Lock Her Up but yes, do tell who has spent years pointlessly waiting for an indictment of a politician they don’t like.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

WPeople who are guilty willingly talk to investigators all the time, that’s how most cases get solved... eg, guilty people get convicted. Investors have evidence, but not enough evidence to convict, guilty party talks to investigators and gives them what they need to convict.

 

 

Having read the “statement of offense”  @DogofWar1 posted, it seems like:

 

Flynn is guilty of lying, not of talking with Russia. I think he called the Russian ambassador in good faith to try to lower the tensions/delay sanctions... but when asked about in during the investigation he lied about it because he was unsure if it was illegal or not. So, he did commit a crime... but he isn’t a guilty man.

This Judge knows way more about what Flynn did than you or I. Why was he so angry?
 

After formally accepting Flynn's guilty plea, the judge threw a series of questions at him that highlighted how unusual Flynn's case is and how consequential his actions may be.
Did Flynn believe he was not guilty? Did he think he was entrapped by the FBI when they interviewed him without a defense attorney present? Had Mueller's team considered charging Flynn with other crimes, including treason?
Flynn and the lawyers' answers to all of these questions were no.
Yet Sullivan pressed on, his voice growing more shrill as he discussed Flynn's actions.
Flynn lied even "in the presence of the White House," Sullivan added. "You can't minimize that."
"I am not hiding my disgust, my disdain for your criminal offense," Sullivan said, pausing between each statement. "Yes, your honor," Flynn said. He was not asked a question.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/michael-flynn-sentencing-mueller-russia-probe/index.html
1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Keep up the faith! 

You are, why shouldn't I?

Add: Going to another aspect of the Trump presidency, wouldn't it be nice if your national security adviser were aware of laws he is supposed to follow? Seems like an important position.
Edited by RedskinsFan44
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39 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Garbage man

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     13 minutes agoThat tells me all I nee to know about that.  Joined 11/12/18.  This is the first post by that acc

 

I'll move along.

 

 

i love the smell of impotent screeds in the morning

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

 

"I am not hiding my disgust, my disdain for your criminal offense," Sullivan said, pausing between each statement. "Yes, your honor," Flynn said. He was not asked a question.
 
You are, why shouldn't I?
Add: Going to another aspect of the Trump presidency, wouldn't it be nice if your national security adviser were aware of laws he is supposed to follow? Seems like an important position.

 

 

for or whatever reason, i can’t break up the quote, so i apologize ahead of time.

 

The judge is angry because Flynn lied to investigators that were trying to figure out how deep russia got into our political system. (i think). Flynn is certainly guilt of that. My point is his original sin, talking to russia, probably not a sin at all and if had of lawyered up he wouldn’t have ever been charged with anything because he wouldn’t have chosen to lie.  But he did... i’m not absolving him from those consequences... If he refused to participate in the investigation like Trump did, he would probably not be in jail....

 

@twa thinks he talked to investigators because he thought he was innocent when he was actually guilty, i think he lied to investigators because he thought he was guilty when he was (mostly) innocent,

 

Yes, it is important that your national security advisor knows the laws he is supposed to follow. I’m not defending trump.

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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11 hours ago, twa said:

 

Flynn cooperated like a innocent man because he thought he was.

 

He lied to the FBI and then acted like he didn’t know it was a crime. You can’t flip that one. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

for or whatever reason, i can’t break up the quote, so i apologize ahead of time.

 

The judge is angry because Flynn lied to investigators that were trying to figure out how deep russia got into our political system. (i think). Flynn is certainly guilt of that. My point is his original sin, talking to russia, probably not a sin at all and if had of lawyered up he wouldn’t have ever been charged with anything because he wouldn’t have chosen to lie.  But he did... i’m not absolving him from those consequences... If he refused to participate in the investigation like Trump did, he would probably not be in jail....

 

@twa thinks he talked to investigators because he thought he was innocent when he was actually guilty, i think he lied to investigators because he thought he was guilty when he was (mostly) innocent,

 

Yes, it is important that your national security advisor knows the laws he is supposed to follow. I’m not defending trump.

Fair enough. My guess is the judge was pissed off by things that we haven't gotten to see at the end of this document.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-special-counsels-office-files-reply-flynn-sentencing-memo

 

Edited by RedskinsFan44

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It's hard for us to know all the details without being privy to the full report and underlying material.  But we'll likely never see the grand jury material for those not charged.

 

FWIW, I think the investigation has shown pretty convincingly that there was coordination between Trump campaign and Russia, but apparently Mueller concluded that there was insufficient evidence to proceed on the charge that Trump conspired with Russia.  The distinction to me would be that coordination can happen with Russia being responsible for all the illegal activity (without any direction and perhaps even without prior knowledge from the campaign) whereas conspiracy would require the requisite mens rea on the part of the campaign.  

 

Now, what I'm mostly curious about is whether Mueller concluded that investigation showed that there was no conspiracy or whether the team felt that there was insufficient evidence to sustain an indictment.  Third possibility I suppose is that there's a sealed indictment on the conspiracy charge for the non POTUS actors, but team said we cannot charge Trump per DOJ policy.  The last possibility seems pretty remote though.

 

The broader policy issue going forward is whether the law should address campaign coordination with foreign nationals and countries.  The law is already very restrictive in terms of what contributions a non citizen/perm resident can give to a campaign.  No financial or in kind, and only service contribution allowed.  Campaigns are also not allowed let foreigners have direct or indirect contribution to decision making process.  I think the groundwork is there to clearly outlaw any type of coordination with at least foreign countries.

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