No Excuses Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Quote But the truth of the matter is that Dylann Roof (at least from what we know) isn’t that different from so many other young, mostly white men over the past 30 years or so who have lashed out against their society in different ways. Although mass killers understandably seize our imaginations and dominate the media, and not all dysfunctional young males are violent and not all of them gain the publicity they crave. Some are terrorists, others are murderers, and some are merely vandals. A few are traitors and deserters. What they all have in common is their gender (male), their race (most are white), and their youth (almost all under 30 at their peak destructiveness). Beyond this, they seem to share little beyond a stubborn immaturity wedded to a towering narcissism. In almost every case, they dress their anger in the clothes of ideology: white supremacy, jihad, hatred of abortion, or anti-government paranoia. Stuck in perpetual adolescence, they see only their own imagined virtue amidst irredeemable corruption. In a typical sentiment, Roof wrote before his rampage that “someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.” The Lost Boys Arise This is the battle cry of the narcissist, and we’ve heard it before. Western societies are producing more and more of these Lost Boys, the fail-to-launch young men who carry weighty social grudges. Some of them kill, but others lash out in other, more creative ways: whether it’s Edward Snowden deciding only he could save America from the scourge of surveillance, or Bowe Bergdahl walking away from his post to personally solve the war in Afghanistan, the combination of immaturity and grandiosity among these young males is jaw-dropping in its scale even when it is not expressed through the barrel of a gun. http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/09/the-revenge-of-the-lost-boys/# Before commenting, please read the whole thing as it is fairly long. And I think it's a conversation worth having. I like the term "Radicalized Losers". It pretty much defines and establishes a commonality between a radicalizing young jihadist in the ghettos of Paris or the growing number of young white men who are drawn to extreme right wing politics. And I think there are more of them within our border and in the West than we realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 I am reminded of a set of papers I came across a few months ago. They were attempting to come up with predictors of why there is a sudden growth in right wing militias. The strongest correlation they found for someone joining a right-wing extremist groups was a dislike for women making gains in the workforce and anything related to gender equality. I find that really interesting, especially in light of this article. I think a serious part of the problem is that traditional gender roles are breaking down and a lot of mostly uneducated men are having a tough time coping with completely new societal definitions of masculinity. I think it's an identity crisis essentially. And I wonder how this projects long term when you consider that the most rapid job growth is expected in the kinds of jobs that women have traditionally occupied, mostly in the service industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Wow, that was a very interesting read. It's terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'm scared to read this. Since I moved out to the country a couple years back, I see enough of it on a first hand basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 38 minutes ago, No Excuses said: I am reminded of a set of papers I came across a few months ago. They were attempting to come up with predictors of why there is a sudden growth in right wing militias. The strongest correlation they found for someone joining a right-wing extremist groups was a dislike for women making gains in the workforce and anything related to gender equality. I find that really interesting, especially in light of this article. I think a serious part of the problem is that traditional gender roles are breaking down and a lot of mostly uneducated men are having a tough time coping with completely new societal definitions of masculinity. I think it's an identity crisis essentially. And I wonder how this projects long term when you consider that the most rapid job growth is expected in the kinds of jobs that women have traditionally occupied, mostly in the service industry. Only semi related, but your response reminded me of a Netflix documentary I watched not that long ago: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I read the whole thing, and it's something I've been talking about and thinking about for awhile now. While I do think it affects young white males the most, for many reasons(I have grown up around many that share those same characteristics), I see it as a societal issue. We no longer communicate. Broken homes are more common. The internet, and television, has replaced what once could've been mentors, pastors, etc. People live more sheltered lives, and as a result, do not develop properly, in terms of crucial character traits (honesty, perspective, humility, patience, self analysis), and due to the instant gratification society we now live in, their expectations are doing born out of fantasy. He when that fantasy world is shattered, there's nothing left it an angry little **** that hates that he can't have why he never even tried to earn. I think this is where white males get affected the most (no offense, but let's be real, this is the world). They are argue top of the totem pole. Some are probably raised with that kind of expectation. Others are probably led that way while seeking affirmation outside of their own families. But the world is (or was, I dunno anymore) making increasing strides in racial equality, and for a group of people that has been used to being at the top of everything, given the benefit of the doubt in various circumstances, etc, that may be tough to take, and may even be seen as racism (by those who pretend their advantages never existed at all), and many, when faced with things like equality in the workplace, interracial relationships and marriages, slang and pop culture mythology, media, etc, it may drive guys with this defect to start coming up with crazy **** like the Roof guy, a manifestation of their own insecurity and self loathing, going completely unchecked, because families are more split up and isolated (parents being forced to provide more than raise), and the failure of mental health in America. It truly is frightening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That's a hell of a read. It's a lot deeper than i ever considered it. It makes a lot of logical sense in how it frames these individuals. and I can't argue with any of it, and i really haven't got the slightest idea where to begin even addressing the problem, much less solving it. What is scary to me personaly, is many instances in my life, i could have become like this (maybe not homicidal, but definitely in the 'world's out to get me and it's not fair' aspect).. but for a few people here and there who, as i look at it in context of this article, came along for me at just the right times. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, Weganator said: Only semi related, but your response reminded me of a Netflix documentary I watched not that long ago: That looks really interesting and I'll check it out soon. Highly relevant to this issue. A hyper masculine culture is a ticking time bomb when more and more men are failing to live up to really lofty standards of sexuality and prosperity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It's a great article. I read the whole thing, and while I think it hits on some key points, it's still missing some pieces when it comes to people that commit horrendous crimes and lash out violently. I'm relatively young (32), and I grew up going to middle and high school in a rich, affluent area, with tons of "successful" types; people who were good looking, had tons of friends, nice cars, etc. I was surrounded by types like this that I couldn't hope to match. I'm on the shorter side, grew up in a lower middle class family, struggled mightily with acne and self-loathing. I was unhappy. I always was able to make friends, but I experienced quite a bit of that anxiety, and the feeling of helplessness and anger. I suppose I could have ended up like some of those "lost boys", but I didn't. I never had the urge to kill anyone, rape anyone, or turn into some right-wing nutter. Going above and beyond social pressures, your basal psychological makeup comes into play. I think that no matter how successful you are with the opposite sex, and irregardless of other social and societal pressures we face growing up, the vast majority of people don't lash out violently. The ones that do have something uniquely wrong with them. Perhaps they were born with the clinical definition of psychopathy, or they're just missing parts of themselves that the vast majority of "normal" people possess. You can pack 10,000 awkward, unattractive nerds into a study, and 99% will not turn into terrorists, rapists, or murderers. It really could be that some people are just psychopaths, and are predisposed to that kind of behavior. Nerds don't kill people; those with screwed up brains and biological chemistry kill people. I'm not convinced that delusions of grandeur brought on by the lack of sexual success is the prominent factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Reminds me of what I saw reading the incel subreddit. Just depressing. It's astonishing how poorly socialized those men are. And thanks to the internet, they've found each other and they reinforce each other's ****ed up and nonsensical views on women and the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Reminds me of what I saw reading the incel subreddit. Just depressing. It's astonishing how poorly socialized those men are. And thanks to the internet, they've found each other and they reinforce each other's ****ed up and nonsensical views on women and the world. The internet has truly become a way for ****ed up like minds to reach out of one another. Even those who are barely hanging on. They go to some dumb chatroom, and everyone tells them that it's the rest of the world, not them, and it just continues to grow that narcissistic behavior we've all run into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 incredible read. Thank you @No Excuses I don't really have much to offer other than that. The question posed at the end makes me feel hopeless and is refreshing at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Thanks for sharing. Well worth the read. ****ing ******* just need to man the **** up and realize that they aren't special. Little ****es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Three thoughts: 1. There is too much focus on chasing the all mighty dollar and chasing the Jones and not enough of on doing the right thing. 2. People mix up fame and being great and focus on being famous and not great. You can be a great 5th grade teacher and not be famous. We need to emphasize greatness and not famous. 3. A hidden cost of the changing economy? Hidden costs can be hard. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-12-07/manly-men-need-to-do-more-girly-jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Who was the poster on here always swearing that sex is the key to all this mess? Even got scoffed at for it a bunch? Can't remember. Hmmmm. Mother****ers... But for real, as I've said before, finding out Hitler had a deformed micropenis and one ball is what put it all together for me. He's got to be the OG Lost Boy. No wonder they love him so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just curious. Has anyone read some of the comments to the article? If so, how do you feel about the anti feminism comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Springfield said: Thanks for sharing. Well worth the read. ****ing ******* just need to man the **** up and realize that they aren't special. Little ****es. Pretty much my mantra and outlook on everything, ever. From Bruce Jenner to Colin Kaepernick The world would be a much greater place if so many werent raging attention whores. You are NOT a special flower. Sit down and shut the **** up you little **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, zoony said: Pretty much my mantra and outlook on everything, ever. From Bruce Jenner to Colin Kaepernick The world would be a much greater place if so many werent raging attention whores. You are NOT a special flower. Sit down and shut the **** up you little **** Tough talk from a goddam wimp ass ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have enormous muscles and im a 7th degree black belt in fighting and stuff 49 minutes ago, brandymac27 said: Just curious. Has anyone read some of the comments to the article? If so, how do you feel about the anti feminism comments? Wish i could say it us shocking It feels like as much progress as weve made with race, sexual, religous bigotry over the past 50 years, misogyny hasnt moved an inch. Might be that its gotten worse. Wish there was some cure for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, zoony said: I have enormous muscles and im a 7th degree black belt in fighting and stuff Wish i could say it us shocking It feels like as much progress as weve made with race, sexual, religous bigotry over the past 50 years, misogyny hasnt moved an inch. Might be that its gotten worse. Wish there was some cure for it Ok, just wondering. I'm not some burn your bra feminist, but I am a female who works hard for what I have (without a husband to help). Some of the comments I felt went extremely overboard, but others, I actually did understand where some of them were coming from. I don't know what the answers are to "fix" this, but to some degree, I feel that a majority of the comments were from people alluding to a society of white males who are lazy and complacent in a first world society, and not having everything handed to them when **** doesn't go their way, to the point where they can't grow up and be a functioning adult. Basically, an article referencing a bunch of spoiled rotten brats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 hours ago, brandymac27 said: Just curious. Has anyone read some of the comments to the article? If so, how do you feel about the anti feminism comments? I never read comments on articles. Nothing good can come of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Finally getting arountpd to reading the entire thing. I would just like to point out that this describes every single Ron Paul activist ever: What they all have in common is their gender (male), their race (most are white), and their youth (almost all under 30 at their peak destructiveness). Beyond this, they seem to share little beyond a stubborn immaturity wedded to a towering narcissism. In almost every case, they dress their anger in the clothes of ideology: white supremacy, jihad, hatred of abortion, or anti-government paranoia. Stuck in perpetual adolescence, they see only their own imagined virtue amidst irredeemable corruption. In a typical sentiment, Roof wrote before his rampage that “someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 14 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said: Who was the poster on here always swearing that sex is the key to all this mess? Even got scoffed at for it a bunch? Can't remember. Hmmmm. Mother****ers... But for real, as I've said before, finding out Hitler had a deformed micropenis and one ball is what put it all together for me. He's got to be the OG Lost Boy. No wonder they love him so much. i was just reading a National Geographic from the 1980s (I still have it because it has a feature on MacArthur .. and the picture of my grandfather "storming" the beach at Leyte with Big Mac ) but the cover story is on Bonobos, and comparing them to Chimps. Bonobos and Chimps look pretty much the same.... but Chimps are ruled by males. a single male, specifically. He is the only one that is able to mate, and defends the right to the death. Chimps kill each other all the damned time and are aggressive miserable little ****s. Bonobos are ruled by the females. Females organize the society, and are mostly peaceful and well organized. The matriarchy controls things, but basically let the males do what they want.. including mostly just giving sex to males.. whomever, and largely whenever, they want..... peaceful and well organized. I think there are clearly a couple of lessons to be learned here. But i am sitting at the office, at a male dominated financial institution, grumpy, surly and just overall pissy.... and I am just too grumpy and distracted to boil these points down to their essence and isolate and articulate them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, mcsluggo said: The matriarchy controls things, but basically let the males do what they want.. including mostly just giving sex to males.. whomever, and largely whenever, they want Quote I think there are clearly a couple of lessons to be learned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, mcsluggo said: The matriarchy controls things, but basically let the males do what they want.. including mostly just giving sex to males.. whomever, and largely whenever, they want..... Is that what a matriarchal society looks like? Alright, boys, time to end the patriarchy and give rise to the matriarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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