The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I think we'll draft one high. Not sure who will ultimately be available in FA but my guess is any marquee DL will gets vastly overpaid and we won't be players. 

 

Maybe.  Though Scot has explained that he doesn't like to force picks where he tells himself for example in round I am drafting a D lineman no matter what -- instead, he's a BPA driven guy.  Thus, I am wondering if we have some action this time in FA.  I am sure Scot is studying D lineman hard and everything being equal would draft one high but he generally doesn't like to box himself especially in the early rounds where he has to take a player who plays a specific position.

[TSO]

3 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 Matt Jones was drafted in the third round too.

 

Yes, RBs with elite measurables and great potential can be found there. Exactly.  

 

Matt hasn't panned out (yet), but him being drafted in the third round doesn't do anything for your point nor does it negate mine. 

 

I waa just responding to your point about being unable to find a talent like Bell "without using a top 16 pick". That was it, I wasn't trying to debate anything else. It's just an odd thing to say considering Bell himself wasn't a top 16 pick, you know? 

 

Anyway, RB is the easiest position to address in terms of a "value/skill set to resources needed to acquire" ratio. You can find very good to great ones for lesser draft picks. There are plenty of good RBs who've started on teams that were even undrafted. I believe it's more than any other position, but I'm not sure about that. 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you never take one in the first round or that it's just as easy to find a good one in later rounds than in the first or second round. Nor am I saying you don't spend on one in FA ever or even trade for one like the Seahawks did for Lynch.

 

Of course not, and if a RB is the BPA at our spot in the first or second I'd be pissed if we didn't take him. The deeper you get in the draft the less likely you'll find what you're looking for, that's true at any position. 

 

But RB is perhaps the easiest position, along with TE and Center, to hit on in the later rounds. There have been studies showing these things, it's not just made up. Elite pass rushers, offensive tackles or Dlinemen are extremely hard to find outside of the first two rounds, for instance. 

 

So it does make sense when people suggest to avoid spending big at the position. It shouldn't be a singular thought process that isn't multifaceted, though. There are definitely exceptions, and truly elite RBs are certainly worth spending big on, but the above should factor in as well as what the rest of the team needs to have resources directed towards. 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 You can find the discrepancy of pro-bowl running backs in last 20 years round by round. Heavily populated in first round, you draft a RB after round 1 it's a near toss-up. I could give hundred of examples but I'm sure others than yourself get my point. I guess I can't assume you've seen a lot of Le'veon bell if you're this caught up about 8 mill/year. I will assume you watched the Redskins game on Sunday, and what David Johnson did. That's Le'veon Bell. Not worth 8 mill? Ok. 

 

We've got to look at these numbers more closely, because I've read otherwise. 

 

On the surface, what you're saying here might be true (though I think "toss up" is stretching it)... but you're not pointing out how that's the case for every position outside of a few. As you move away from the first round into the later rounds, it becomes increasingly unlikely to find ANY player at ANY position.

 

What needs to be looked at is how often are good to great RBs found in those later rounds (as well as undrafted FAs) in comparison to other positions. If there's a higher hit rate (that's what I've read, but it's been a while) in comparison to other positions, then good economics dictate that it'd be smarter to allocate your best assets (cap space/high draft picks) more consistently to other positions that are more difficult to find in later rounds than RB.

 

There are exceptions, of course. Bell is a great talent and I wouldn't be opposed to paying him big... but his suspensions, the economics mentioned above, and factoring in the rest of our team needs would point to it being a bad idea. 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  Though Scot has explained that he doesn't like to force picks where he tells himself for example in round I am drafting a D lineman no matter what -- instead, he's a BPA driven guy.  Thus, I am wondering if we have some action this time in FA.  I am sure Scot is studying D lineman hard and everything being equal would draft one high but he generally doesn't like to box himself especially in the early rounds where he has to take a player who plays a specific position.

 

Yup, the best thing that could happen to us would be that a Dlineman we really like and have ranked highest at our pick falls to us. 

 

The next best thing would be allocating significant cap space to ensuring we got at least one stud there to upgrade the unit via FA. The above "best thing" would still remain in effect.  

 

The next best thing would be to trade up in the draft using the litany of draft picks we've assembled (how awesome is that) and get the guy we want.

 

The worst possible thing to do would be to reach for a Dlineman at our pick even though we have another/others who rank higher at another position that's not as much of a need.  

[Hail2theSkins24]

@thesubmittedone All great points. Nothing but respect 

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Yup, the best thing that could happen to us would be that a Dline we really like and have ranked highest at our pick falls to us. 

 

The next best thing would be allocating significant cap space to ensuring we got at least one stud there to upgrade the unit via FA. The above "best thing" would still remain in effect.  

 

The next best thing would be to trade up in the draft using the litany of draft picks we've assembled (how awesome is that) and get the guy we want.

 

The worst possible thing to do would be to reach for a Dlineman at our pick even though we have another/other guy ranking higher at another position that's not as much of a need.  

 

Cool thing is among the extra picks, Scot got a 4th rounder from the Jets which is looking like might be one of the top 5 picks in the 4th round.  On day 3, we will be on the clock pretty quickly.  Last time I recall we had an early 4th rounder, we got Breeland.

 

If I had to take a stab at this, they might sign one marque D lineman, maybe a 2nd medium level one price wise AND a strong emphasis in the draft without forcing a pick.  It's early to gauge where the draft is top heavy talent wise but at the moment (on defense) looking strong for corners, edge rushers, safeties, not bad for MLB and DT.  But lets say for example, Scot loves Jamal Adams and sees him as a safety in the mold of the studs at that position in Seattle, take the dude over name that DT if he doesn't love that player the same way, etc.

[skinny21]

TSO - Man, I'm so glad you responded to the "they only switch out players due to injury"... it's been like an itch I couldn't scratch for a while now.  You're on fire bro.

 

[TSO]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

TSO - Man, I'm so glad you responded to the "they only switch out players due to injury"... it's been like an itch I couldn't scratch for a while now.  You're on fire bro.

 

 

lol, okay now it's getting freaky. First you say exactly what I wanted to say about interior Dlinemen impacting the entire team and elevating the play of everyone else... then you say this "itch" thing. You have no idea how many times I made a post about it then said "meh, forget it, not worth arguing" for some time now. Glad I wasn't the only one.  

 

*As everyone yells "get a room you two"*

 

I'll stop now.  

[TSO]

14 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

@thesubmittedone All great points. Nothing but respect 

 

You, kind sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I had to take a stab at this, they might sign one marque D lineman, maybe a 2nd medium level one price wise AND a strong emphasis in the draft without forcing a pick.  It's early to gauge where the draft is top heavy talent wise but at the moment looking strong for corners, edge rushers, safeties, not bad for MLB and DT.  But lets say for example, Scot loves Jamal Adams and sees him as a safety in the mold of the studs at that position in Seattle, take the dude over name that DT if he doesn't love that player the same way, etc.

 

That would be great, and totally agree with the example of BPA.

 

I wonder if we're going to see the first "trade up" in the Scot McCloughan era. I know he always wants more draft picks, but I think the talent level on this team is at a point to where I wouldn't be surprised were he to pull the trigger on it.   

[Skinsinparadise]

I think this is a good likely summary of the off season ahead

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/12/06/redskins-mailbag-the-darned-fade-route-blame-for-defensive-woes-and-more/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.301aacf3d338

 

As far as changes to the defense, obviously, move Su’a Cravens to strong safety is one move. The Redskins plan to do that. They also need to draft and sign some impactful defensive linemen, and get an athletic, versatile inside linebacker. Preston Smith has really struggled, so, they might need to add another edge rusher and use Smith as a situational guy until he further develops. I don’t know about Breeland at free safety. He could obviously fill in there. But I think he’s a cornerback. I’d like to see an early draft pick spent on a free safety.

[Hail2theSkins24]

Ideally, it would be great to see if Sua has the frame to add on 10 pounds and maintain speed. Thomas Davis was a bit of a tweener entering the league, both him and Sua have off-the-chart instincts. If Sua can bulk up, he will be out there a lot more next year 

[skinny21]

43 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

Ideally, it would be great to see if Sua has the frame to add on 10 pounds and maintain speed. Thomas Davis was a bit of a tweener entering the league, both him and Sua have off-the-chart instincts. If Sua can bulk up, he will be out there a lot more next year 

I like the thinking, and I especially like the idea of him being 1) on the field more often and 2) being (predominately) in the box.  However, I think he'd be ideal as a hybrid linebacker/safety.

 

Were we to switch to a 2 gapping DL, I could see him playing all three downs as a linebacker (and I could see Compton performing much better), but without that switch, I think he's better in a hybrid role.  Just my opinion of course.

 

Scot's comments post-draft (and this ensuing season), makes me think Dline is going to be a serious priority for him... and that makes me very happy.  Even happier reading SIPs comments about his time with Scot and the fact he (Scot) recognizes the weak areas of the team.  He knows the team is close, and I think he's going to utilize his resources accordingly. 

 

 

TSO - if you're ever down Austin way, I've got a room for ya'... but my wife the jealous Texan type of woman, so it would have to be the guest room.

 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

Ideally, it would be great to see if Sua has the frame to add on 10 pounds and maintain speed. Thomas Davis was a bit of a tweener entering the league, both him and Sua have off-the-chart instincts. If Sua can bulk up, he will be out there a lot more next year 

Or stay the size he is, speed he is. Start at SS and have a competent bu FS who comes in on passing downs, so he can get in the box/cover TEs and RBs.

[Hail2theSkins24]

@Koolblue13 I hope our coaches have given him a chance at SS already this year, seeing we are playing Donte Whitner almost all of the time. Maybe he would be a fit at SS with a different DC in charge, but if Whitner is out at SS when cravens is on the sideline that tells me Sua doesn't fit our SS position

[PlayAction]

Garcon and DJAX will be on the wrong side of 30.  They can both still contribute but are there younger players that can do as well for the same price?  I'm not sure it makes sense to acquire a stud free agent WR for an offense that doesn't feature one player other than Reed.  I haven't given up hope on Doctson.  Skins could let both Garcons and DJAX go and replace with one free agent.  Not sure whom yet.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

@Koolblue13 I hope our coaches have given him a chance at SS already this year, seeing we are playing Donte Whitner almost all of the time. Maybe he would be a fit at SS with a different DC in charge, but if Whitner is out at SS when cravens is on the sideline that tells me Sua doesn't fit our SS position

Actually they've talked about their plan for him - getting him comfortable with the nickel linebacker role and then they'll start working him at safety.  Supposedly he's been picking things up quickly at linebacker, and perhaps they start putting him at safety here and there this year, but I think the safety part was always going to be next year.  

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

Garcon and DJAX will be on the wrong side of 30.  They can both still contribute but are there younger players that can do as well for the same price?  I'm not sure it makes sense to acquire a stud free agent WR for an offense that doesn't feature one player other than Reed.  I haven't given up hope on Doctson.  Skins could let both Garcons and DJAX go and replace with one free agent.  Not sure whom yet.

You know, crazy as this sounds, I wouldn't be all that upset if they let both Garçon and Jackson walk, hope to draft a receiver (or even two), and add 1 (or 2) mid tier receivers.  Of course, there's an obvious flaw in going to the draft with a need in mind, but still...

 

Re-sign Davis, let Crowder, the rookie(s), the cheaper FA(s), Harris, et al. battle it out for the starting spots.  If Crowder wins, then he moves inside for 3 receiver sets.  

 

By now, y'all think I'm crazy, but if that money was put to a defensive stud, to go along with other defensive FAs... I really don't think I would complain. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  Though Scot has explained that he doesn't like to force picks where he tells himself for example in round I am drafting a D lineman no matter what -- instead, he's a BPA driven guy.  Thus, I am wondering if we have some action this time in FA.  I am sure Scot is studying D lineman hard and everything being equal would draft one high but he generally doesn't like to box himself especially in the early rounds where he has to take a player who plays a specific position.

 

If he's really a BPA guy then he's probably the only GM who rated Scherff ahead of Leonard Williams.

 

I frankly don't understand the confidence people have in SM....And why does anyone think he will seriously address issues in free agency?     Has he he ever spent big money on more than one free agent in an off-season?

 

 

[Est.1974]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  Though Scot has explained that he doesn't like to force picks where he tells himself for example in round I am drafting a D lineman no matter what -- instead, he's a BPA driven guy.  Thus, I am wondering if we have some action this time in FA.  I am sure Scot is studying D lineman hard and everything being equal would draft one high but he generally doesn't like to box himself especially in the early rounds where he has to take a player who plays a specific position.

Agreed on Scots draft approach. I think in the slot we'll be picking though the chances are there will be a handful of prospects of similar rating on the board so the margin between BPA and need pick narrows vastly.

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

You know, crazy as this sounds, I wouldn't be all that upset if they let both Garçon and Jackson walk, hope to draft a receiver (or even two), and add 1 (or 2) mid tier receivers.  Of course, there's an obvious flaw in going to the draft with a need in mind, but still...

 

Re-sign Davis, let Crowder, the rookie(s), the cheaper FA(s), Harris, et al. battle it out for the starting spots.  If Crowder wins, then he moves inside for 3 receiver sets.  

 

By now, y'all think I'm crazy, but if that money was put to a defensive stud, to go along with other defensive FAs... I really don't think I would complain. 

Yes I think you're crazy for wanting to draft a WR. 

 

However, I can see letting them both walk. If we flipped that cap space onto the defense, there's 2 Dline or 1 and a ILB to start, which makes us instantly better.

 

Garcon seems to be the back up, when Reed can't get on the field, which is guaranteed to happen, so I think he's more valuable.

 

You're right that Reed is the focal point though. Grant and Harris, Doctson, Crowder. It's a gamble, but I'm fine with it.

 

I really wish the draft was before FA.

[Wildbunny]

5 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

If he's really a BPA guy then he's probably the only GM who rated Scherff ahead of Leonard Williams.

 

I frankly don't understand the confidence people have in SM....And why does anyone think he will seriously address issues in free agency?     Has he he ever spent big money on more than one free agent in an off-season?

 

 

Well they had tons of calls for trade options in that draft. All those calls stopped after Fowler was picked up at 3.

If Williams was so highly regarded they should have keep coming and Scott would probably have agreed on one.

 

He also said it more than ever, he really loves scherff. How is that hard to understand?

 

I won't argue the big money spending spree in FA... Thankfully, we get rid of Vinny long ago.

[Bang]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes I think you're crazy for wanting to draft a WR. 

 

However, I can see letting them both walk. If we flipped that cap space onto the defense, there's 2 Dline or 1 and a ILB to start, which makes us instantly better.

 

Garcon seems to be the back up, when Reed can't get on the field, which is guaranteed to happen, so I think he's more valuable.

 

You're right that Reed is the focal point though. Grant and Harris, Doctson, Crowder. It's a gamble, but I'm fine with it.

 

I really wish the draft was before FA.

I am really wanting to keep Garcon. the guy balls out, period,, plays hard, works hard, doesn't drop balls, makes clutch plays, and has a nice mean streak.

He's the quintessential "possession receiver" we all know we need.

Doctson is unproven  and a malingerer...  he can't play because,....  well, nothing the doctors can find. I question his heart and his drive.  i have no idea about his talent. I haven't seen anything to base it on.

Right now, at WR we have three bona-fides in Garcon, DJax and Crowder..  serious threats...  but of the three,, DJax gives me the least going forward. I think the same threat can be developed in Crowder,, he may not have the blinding speed, but he is plenty fast and can get DBs turned around because of his superior route running.  He gets plenty of separation, and we've seen him 'take the top off" as the cliché goes. Maybe i'm wrong, but Djax seems more to me to be a guy who needs a set route to do his thing,, Corwder seems to be able to find the empty spots , runs routes all over the field at all depths, where Jackson only has a (relatively) few routes i see him running. i think Crowder understands more of what he's facing, knows how to beat it with more than speed.
IF, and that is a BIG IF Doctson pans out, with Reed and Garcon suddenly we have three big targets to go with Crowder's gamebreaking ability.

 

~Bang

[skins island connection]

I hope Doctson does end up being a player/playmaker.  One thing we don't have right now is a WR that has vertical abilities. We could use a tall WR who can not only elevate but attack a ball in the air.

DJax I am not sure I see him being here next year. Maybe its me but he doesn't seem to be making near the amount of plays as he did in previous seasons. Could it just be a down year for him?

[Koolblue13]

46 minutes ago, Bang said:

I am really wanting to keep Garcon. the guy balls out, period,, plays hard, works hard, doesn't drop balls, makes clutch plays, and has a nice mean streak.

He's the quintessential "possession receiver" we all know we need.

Doctson is unproven  and a malingerer...  he can't play because,....  well, nothing the doctors can find. I question his heart and his drive.  i have no idea about his talent. I haven't seen anything to base it on.

Right now, at WR we have three bona-fides in Garcon, DJax and Crowder..  serious threats...  but of the three,, DJax gives me the least going forward. I think the same threat can be developed in Crowder,, he may not have the blinding speed, but he is plenty fast and can get DBs turned around because of his superior route running.  He gets plenty of separation, and we've seen him 'take the top off" as the cliché goes. Maybe i'm wrong, but Djax seems more to me to be a guy who needs a set route to do his thing,, Corwder seems to be able to find the empty spots , runs routes all over the field at all depths, where Jackson only has a (relatively) few routes i see him running. i think Crowder understands more of what he's facing, knows how to beat it with more than speed.
IF, and that is a BIG IF Doctson pans out, with Reed and Garcon suddenly we have three big targets to go with Crowder's gamebreaking ability.

 

~Bang

I'm in almost complete agreement. I have no idea if Doctson is faking or whatever. I don't know him and don't care, as long as his new rookie season is good, but I agree he can't be counted on.

 

I think one of the few things we all (most) agree on (probably not) is in the beginning of the year, we'd mostly all have said DJax is the one to keep. Now, we mostly all agree that it's Garcon. He's certainly proven his worth. Maybe not $10 million worth, but I highly doubt that's what he'll be looking for.

 

My guess. They both get offered a very moderate contract and are allowed to test the FA waters. Chances are Garcon learns his worth and moves on. He did say he'll play for whoever pays him.

 

DJax i have no idea what happens too, but you're right, Jamo is his replacement.

6 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

I hope Doctson does end up being a player/playmaker.  One thing we don't have right now is a WR that has vertical abilities. We could use a tall WR who can not only elevate but attack a ball in the air.

DJax I am not sure I see him being here next year. Maybe its me but he doesn't seem to be making near the amount of plays as he did in previous seasons. Could it just be a down year for him?

Not in a contract year.

[SemperFi Skins]

I think the top guy/dark horse we add to our Dline will be Sheldon Richardson when, not if, he's released from NYJ. Scotty Mc will chase him down with a briefcase full of dough. And I would be very happy with it.

 

I don't know anyone who will be giving a first round pick for the guy.