Weganator Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 24 minutes ago, Hersh said: I honestly don't know what conservative stand for anymore but do you listen to NPR? I have some progressive friends that do. I'll discuss topics they hear with them, listen to clips they suggest or while riding in their cars. By no means a regular listener though. In regards to conservative, think libertarian. It means no/minimal government infringing upon citizens rights. This has been misconstrued in the past due to bigotry and ignorance. Currently the biggest perpetrators are the religious right, attempting to suppress gay marriage and abortion. I can see an argument for not allowing the government to force religious institutions to have to perform gay marriages, as long as a perfectly equivalent civil union option is available. Abortion could be open to discussion as ethical, but I personally don't have a strong stance and err on the side of liberty for what we all agree on as an individual. Pretty much any time a government policy gets implemented, ask yourself "would I be willing to shoot / exert force with a gun against someone if they didn't abide by this law?". Because that is the inevitable result of someone repeatedly breaking / refusing to follow a law. If no, government probably doesn't need to be involved.. Taxes? No. Ban Drugs? No. Laws against minority citizens? No. Carbon caps? No. Stop murder? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Isn't Voice of America back on the tablet? Trump could appoint someone to turn it into something like RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Weganator said: I have some progressive friends that do. I'll discuss topics they hear with them, listen to clips they suggest or while riding in their cars. By no means a regular listener though. It's not nearly as partisan as some on the right claim and the programs always ask people from both sides to come on. Certainly a couple hosts have liberal bias but they still have on both sides. Plus most of NPR isn't even political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Hersh said: I honestly don't know what conservative stand for anymore but do you listen to NPR? Well, one of the primary things they stand for is an alternate reality. For example, believing that NPR is state-run liberal propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 41 minutes ago, Hersh said: It's not nearly as partisan as some on the right claim and the programs always ask people from both sides to come on. Certainly a couple hosts have liberal bias but they still have on both sides. Plus most of NPR isn't even political. I'll have to check it out to see what else it has to offer. 38 minutes ago, Larry said: Well, one of the primary things they stand for is an alternate reality. For example, believing that NPR is state-run liberal propaganda. Haven't checked yet, but if you can point me to their conservative political hosts they allow on, it would go a long way to dispel doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 25 minutes ago, Weganator said: I'll have to check it out to see what else it has to offer. Haven't checked yet, but if you can point me to their conservative political hosts they allow on, it would go a long way to dispel doubts. They don't have any shows on NPR that are exclusively political. I would say less than 10% of what they have on deals with politics if that. There is almost none on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Weganator said: Pretty much any time a government policy gets implemented, ask yourself "would I be willing to shoot / exert force with a gun against someone if they didn't abide by this law?". Because that is the inevitable result of someone repeatedly breaking / refusing to follow a law. If no, government probably doesn't need to be involved.. Taxes? No. Ban Drugs? No. Laws against minority citizens? No. Carbon caps? No. Stop murder? Yes. The absurdity of this line of thinking is staggering. Taxes is a no to you? I'm guessing you use roads, and schools, and fire departments...how do you propose those should all be funded? Carbon caps; what about polluting water supplies? Because carbon based polluting is no different as it propels global warming. And to think that every crime must escalate to the taking of life is simply bonkers. Financial pain or incarceration are by far and way very effective enough to find compliance. I operate by the Native principle that we all live downstream. As such as a community we are here for the benefit of one another and to hold one another accoutable. This is the very basis of community. Your lawlessness works beautifully under the umbrelka of our community, but remove the community and your lawlessness would lead to chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: The absurdity of this line of thinking is staggering. Taxes is a no to you? I'm guessing you use roads, and schools, and fire departments...how do you propose those should all be funded? Carbon caps; what about polluting water supplies? Because carbon based polluting is no different as it propels global warming. And to think that every crime must escalate to the taking of life is simply bonkers. Financial pain or incarceration are by far and way very effective enough to find compliance. I operate by the Native principle that we all live downstream. As such as a community we are here for the benefit of one another and to hold one another accoutable. This is the very basis of community. Your lawlessness works beautifully under the umbrelka of our community, but remove the community and your lawlessness would lead to chaos. Roads and schools would be private. Many fire departments are already volunteers. Free market will deal with climate change eventually. The subsidize or regulate philosophy regarding government is very tired. Intelligent businesses who see an opportunity for profit will band together to make it work. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000575815 Edit: If that fund Bill Gates discusses was able to be invested in by individuals like (like an etf), I would be all over that. That much money being thrown around by such heavyweights at a few different alternative paths. Assuming they do it right and the fund pools the risk, that should be very, very successful. I personally think Nuclear will be the most successful out of what he discusses, but thats no reason for them not to diversify like they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Ah, the Twenty-first Century version of "Greed is good!" We are all in this together. Businesses are in it for the bottom line, and now we have a government with this attitude on steroids. Private roads, your take on this is laughable! I guess we want to pay a toll on every road you drive on every day. Well, we as a society do this already through taxes, so the burden is spread out among all of us. Trump crowing on his "victory tour" that he's going to fix the infrastructure without out corporate taxes and wealthy individuals' taxes is equally laughable. Do you want to be one of the companies working on these projects that is stiffed and forced to take less than contracted money for work performed? That's his business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Trump crowing on his "victory tour" that he's going to fix the infrastructure without out corporate taxes and wealthy individuals' taxes is equally laughable. Do you want to be one of the companies working on these projects that is stiffed and forced to take less than contracted money for work performed? That's his business model. If people are so concerned about him paying them back, I have no idea why they do business with him. I wouldn't want to be a business owner at all in the current economic / political climate. If I knew Trump was gonna get 8 years, I would consider starting a business in the tax advantaged window and sell prior to the 2024 election. But that is way too risky. Wouldn't want to be halfway in with a growing (but not ready to be sold) business and get rocked by a new wave of taxes and regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Weganator, do you read Jonah Goldberg? Another great column: http://www.nationalreview.com/g-file/443133/never-trump-finished-russia-election-hacking-criticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 9 hours ago, Weganator said: Roads and schools would be private. Many fire departments are already volunteers. Free market will deal with climate change eventually. The subsidize or regulate philosophy regarding government is very tired. Intelligent businesses who see an opportunity for profit will band together to make it work. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000575815 Edit: If that fund Bill Gates discusses was able to be invested in by individuals like (like an etf), I would be all over that. That much money being thrown around by such heavyweights at a few different alternative paths. Assuming they do it right and the fund pools the risk, that should be very, very successful. I personally think Nuclear will be the most successful out of what he discusses, but thats no reason for them not to diversify like they are doing. So EVERY road is now to be a toll road?! LoL!!! Question do you know why the United States has the Interstate highway system that we have? No cheating with Google, do you know what its actual purpose is? FWIW reading your post is like watching a toddler play with blocks. Free market eventually deal with climate change!!! LoL!! ?????? The hilarity of that notion will keep me in a good mood all day of that I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I wrote a term paper in 1981 about the problem of nuclear waste. In all these years, NOTHING has changed. Why people insist on these energy industries that are dangerous to human beings is beyond me, except for the possibility of profit while getting taxpayers to pay for them? They are against solar systems built into individual houses because it reduces dependence on for profit utilities. Fortunately, we have companies that are forging ahead with R&D in alternative energy sources. It was stalled in the 80s because of Reagan, but it won't stall now. I have solar for my camper and will install a larger system when I get to TX to run my AC. It will pay for itself in about a year, after that, it's free electricity for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Weganator said: If people are so concerned about him paying them back, I have no idea why they do business with him. I wouldn't want to be a business owner at all in the current economic / political climate. If I knew Trump was gonna get 8 years, I would consider starting a business in the tax advantaged window and sell prior to the 2024 election. But that is way too risky. Wouldn't want to be halfway in with a growing (but not ready to be sold) business and get rocked by a new wave of taxes and regulations. This is the kind of sentiment that makes me wish a group of conservatives would take over a state like Kansas and start slashing taxes. Heck I'd wish they'd slash them all the way to zero and privatize EVERYTHING. It would be a disaster of epic proportions. (See Kansas now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 How many people oppose a individual putting solar on their home ON THEIR OWN DIME?.....Maybe a HOA, but that is your own fault for moving there. When you expect me to pay for part of it you invite my interference and possible objection. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Weganator said: Roads and schools would be private. Many fire departments are already volunteers. Free market will deal with climate change eventually. The subsidize or regulate philosophy regarding government is very tired. Intelligent businesses who see an opportunity for profit will band together to make it work. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000575815 Edit: If that fund Bill Gates discusses was able to be invested in by individuals like (like an etf), I would be all over that. That much money being thrown around by such heavyweights at a few different alternative paths. Assuming they do it right and the fund pools the risk, that should be very, very successful. I personally think Nuclear will be the most successful out of what he discusses, but thats no reason for them not to diversify like they are doing. Where do you live? I ask because I wonder were all these fire departments are that are already volunteer. Surely not in a major economic driver like a city. Rural I get, cities having all volunteer forces...wow, not good. 2 minutes ago, twa said: How many people oppose a individual putting solar on their home ON THEIR OWN DIME?.....Maybe a HOA, but that is your own fault for moving there. When you expect me to pay for part of it you invite my interference and possible objection. . Wait, are you saying as a Texan that you oppose tax incentives for business? Isn't that a big selling point in Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Fortunately, we have companies that are forging ahead with R&D in alternative energy sources. It was stalled in the 80s because of Reagan, but it won't stall now. See, here's the thing, tech don't care, tech don't vote, tech don't rant on reddit, tech just keeps rollin' along. Tech puts tools of communication into the hands of people so that no matter how hard any government seeks to suppress them, tech keeps techin' along, people still have access. Still have digital photography and music and printing and all kinds of fun lil tech-y toys to evade the heavy hand of "Thou shalt not!" wherever it rises or whoever wields it. Reading, learning, sharing info, collating data are all available to those that choose to know. The willful ignorance of the morlocks just puts them further behind the eightball, further behind history, closer to extinction. Pandora's Box is open wide, there ain't no slammin' it now. Tech is the arena that draws the curious, the imaginative, the dreamers with engineering degrees that just keep techin' along to make **** happen. Tech helps them share information, tech helps them imagine even harder. Tech is working on aerogels, near perfect thermal insulators that will slash heating/cooling bills to the detriment of the energy cabals, tech is wondering hard about graphene and some of the incredible properties that may yield PV cells with wildly greater efficiencies or batteries with an energy density an order of magnitude higher than what we have now. Put 'em together and you become your own power company, the corporations starve and die. Tech is trying to get the recipe right for room temp superconductors that will make electric motors 1/10 the size of what we use now, even if they only get the magnets right. Etc., etc. and so on...... And the best part? All the bloviating bull**** about coal or nuke or anything else the crassholes use for propaganda will be smoke, weightless, meaningless and of zero effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, Hersh said: Where do you live? I ask because I wonder were all these fire departments are that are already volunteer. Surely not in a major economic driver like a city. Rural I get, cities having all volunteer forces...wow, not good. Mines volunteer(about 150K folk) ,but we are special what with the cooperation with all the petrochem industries fire depts add http://pasadenavfd.com/about.html PVFD is the largest single-municipality, all volunteer, fire department in the United States. Its membership includes over 200 active and 50 semi-active Firefighters. The department responds to approximately 170 alarms per month within the almost 60 square miles of the City of Pasadena, plus it's Mutual Aid Agreement areas. Pasadena is the 159th largest city in the United States, next to its namesake city, Pasadena, California. PVFD maintains over 40 pieces of rolling stock, as well as multiple boats, housed in 9 stations, with one additional headquarters building. The oldest apparatus in the fleet is Pasadena's very first fire engine, a 1929American LaFrance pumper that is nicknamed "Old Betsy". This classic "ALF" still drives in local parades and to special events in the community. A state of the art, live fire, burn building and fire behavior simulator is located at PVFD's training field. The City of Pasadena was incorporated in 1928, and the PVFD established in 1930 with a membership of 25 Firefighters. PVFD is the lead agency for Fire Suppression, Technical Rescue, and Hazardous Materials incident response for the City of Pasadena, Texas, but has Mutual Aid Agreements with all of its neighboring cities as well as many other nearby municipal and industrial fire departments. Emergency Medical Services are provided by a third service private ambulance service under contract to the City of Pasadena. PVFD provides mutual aid protection to Ellington Field, NASA's Johnson Space Center, and the University of Houston-Clear Lake. It is also an active member of the Channel Industrial Mutual Aid (CIMA) organization, which is a conglomeration of municipal and industrial fire departments that respond to the numerous petrochemical plants in the region. PVFD is a progressive department that prides itself on partaking in aggressive interior attacks on fire to protect life and property. We also live by the axiom that we "risk a lot to save a lot and we risk little to save little". The highways and industry in PVFD's district also test the department's technical rescue abilities on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Weganator said: In regards to conservative, think libertarian. It means no/minimal government infringing upon citizens rights. This has been misconstrued in the past due to bigotry and ignorance. Currently the biggest perpetrators are the religious right, attempting to suppress gay marriage and abortion. This kind of conservative doesn't exist in our political landscape. *sorry having trouble on my phone Social Conservatism and populism rule the day. (see the Tea Party) Who is the biggest conservative leader right now, that's not a media personality? Ted Cruz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 17 hours ago, Larry said: Ah the old false equivalency gambit. You know, you are right it definitely is a false equivalency. I recommend you google who historically in contrast, between conservatives and liberals, reviled their political opponents and believed they and their positions where evil and which side didn't think that of their opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Republican positions ARE evil and destructive towards the vast majority of human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Republican positions ARE evil and destructive towards the vast majority of human beings. Thank you for providing exhibit #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 So cutting the social safety net in favor of tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy isn't a position destructive towards human beings? Thanks for expressing your inhumanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Hersh said: Where do you live? I ask because I wonder were all these fire departments are that are already volunteer. Surely not in a major economic driver like a city. Rural I get, cities having all volunteer forces...wow, not good. I'm young enough where federal funds had been used to build many cities prior to me being born. I have no means to change the past, all I can do is discuss future policy. Because of this, all I can do is leverage the rules currently in place and do my best to change them where I disagree. I live in DC because the combination of weed legalization and federal funds / deals being poured into making areas more livable has lead to investment opportunities far better than starting a business. Robbery and murders still occur, but the tertiary crime of bickering over pot is gone. That plus being able to smoke legally at home makes me safer at my job because I have no chance of being arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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