How bout props to the Trent Williams-less O-line today!!

[moondog]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

Joe Thomas can say that all he wants, but it's not true.

Funny, I'd take his word over yours 10 times out of 10. There isn't a more athletic tackle in the league. Thomas is still damn good and arguable. Tyron Smith is also debatable. Not sure who else is worth mentioning in the same breath as those three right now but I don't think there is another tackle in the league as versatile and as good in every area as Trent. Your statement offers absolutely nothing in terms of what you see or are thinking so I'm not really sure what you're getting at other than basically giving a yes/no answer with nothing to support it. 

Bottom line, even if you put those other two or someone else above him, he's still our best player and a guy in his prime. The OP was spot on that our O-line deserves a ton of credit as does Kirk because as we've seen and known for a long time pass pro needs both to look good. The same goes for the running game - our line is damn good at opening holes but it requires a back like Kelley that is at least average at finding those holes and possessing good vision. But this whole debate about moving Trent to Guard or putting him (or Nsekhe) on the trading block is absolutely asinine and doesn't merit a response....so shame on me for that. 

[justice98]

^^^^ That's a lot of words for a topic that doesnt merit a response.

[TheGreek1973]

Come on guys in what universe we would think to trade Trent?  Ty was awesome yesterday but he is I think 34 years older than Trent and we don't know how well he will hold up.  Lets circle back on this discussion at the end of the next 3 games and if he holds up as well as he did yesterday I would love for Scottie and Allen to find a way to sign him to nice deal because having him as a backup to both LT and RT is a luxury very few teams have.

[moondog]

13 minutes ago, justice98 said:

^^^^ That's a lot of words for a topic that doesnt merit a response.

Thus I said...shame on me and the majority of them were in response to you. Also, congrats on contributing 0 to any discussion on here with posts like this. 

[NoCalMike]

I think Trent has all the physical freak natures to be the best in the league, his versatility and athleticism give him some unique abilities, but is he as consistent as the other say, Top 3-5 LTs?  

[justice98]

9 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Come on guys in what universe we would think to trade Trent?  Ty was awesome yesterday but he is I think 34 years older than Trent and we don't know how well he will hold up.  Lets circle back on this discussion at the end of the next 3 games and if he holds up as well as he did yesterday I would love for Scottie and Allen to find a way to sign him to nice deal because having him as a backup to both LT and RT is a luxury very few teams have.

What would you get for an elite LT? A second probably, maybe a first.  In this hypothetical scenario, trade him, draft his younger, cheaper replacement high.  Then use the cap savings and strengthen another position (or two).   

Again, in this scenario, you wouldnt trade Trent and ride with Nsekhe for the long term.  

[MassSkinsFan]

3 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

But put in a good OLT in and scheme around him, give him extra help every now and then change some assignments, alter the balance of the game a little and people wont notice, so you always get these questions . "Why are we paying superstar weed head over there millions of $$ when Joe Schmoe over there can do the same job just as well" and the reason is they are not doing the same job, they don't offer the same things - it just looks like they are ..  

This should be required reading for ESers everywhere!!!

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I think Trent has all the physical freak natures to be the best in the league, his versatility and athleticism give him some unique abilities, but is he as consistent as the other say, Top 3-5 LTs?  

Is Trent as consistent as the other 3-5 Top LTs? Dammit, I thought he was 1st!

[CommanderDOOM]

On 11/13/2016 at 7:50 PM, ConnSKINS26 said:

The second we get some OL depth, you want to tag and trade it? Even with our franchise LT having drug and nagging injury red flags, and our RT also having some injury issues? Crazy. If we want to actually win games consistently, he's worth more to us as a backup than he is as a trade piece.

Trade? Didn't say anything bout a trade though it's always an option. What I'm saying is another team will likely offer a nice contract to Ty. If a team offers a 1st for Trent are u not taking it?

 

[bowhunter]

52 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Trade? Didn't say anything bout a trade though it's always an option. What I'm saying is another team will likely offer a nice contract to Ty. If a team offers a 1st for Trent are u not taking it?

 

And what would we hope to garner from that 1st round pick we acquire? A POTENTIAL top 5 tackle? No thanks..

[goskins10]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 8:10 AM, justice98 said:

I dont disagree, it's all a huge "if".  Nobody's trying to trade either guy today.  It's less crowning him than thinking of the possibilities.  Like, if the rest of the season plays out like this.  Obviously if he turns into a turnstile, it's off the table.

Joe Thomas can say that all he wants, but it's not true.

 

First, these if's are seriously premature - that's the nicest way I can put it. You need to have at least 3 really good tackles in the NFL. Why in the world would we want to let either one go? CAP Space? We are projected to have $46M in cap space next year (2017). We have almost $15M right now. Also, there is a minimum spend requirement for teams now. I believe considering where we were 3 yrs ago when BA got here and now with Scot M, they have shown they know how to manage the cap.

There is no way they move TW even if Ty plays like a pro-bowler the rest of the season. TW is a 28 Y/O pro-bowler. Ty is a 31 Y/O journeyman. I could see them moving him/them around a little and experimenting on the lineup if there is an opportunity to get them both on the field. But to move arguably one of the best LTs in football because his replacement has a few good games (assuming he plays well the next 3 which I both hope and expect) just makes no football sense at all.

To the point of you making the blanket statement that @moondog wrong without any data or reasoning, here are the current PFF rankings. Trent Williams is ranked #1 in the league. Certainly agree they are not perfect. But it's at least reasonable to agree he is in the top 5. They are not going to be that wrong. If you disagree, where is your data? What is your reasoning? Just saying someone is wrong is not value added.

 

 

[moondog]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

First, these if's are seriously premature - that's the nicest way I can put it. You need to have at least 3 really good tackles in the NFL. Why in the world would we want to let either one go? CAP Space? We are projected to have $46M in cap space next year (2017). We have almost $15M right now. Also, there is a minimum spend requirement for teams now. I believe considering where we were 3 yrs ago when BA got here and now with Scot M, they have shown they know how to manage the cap.

There is no way they move TW even if Ty plays like a pro-bowler the rest of the season. TW is a 28 Y/O pro-bowler. Ty is a 31 Y/O journeyman. I could see them moving him/them around a little and experimenting on the lineup if there is an opportunity to get them both on the field. But to move arguably one of the best LTs in football because his replacement has a few good games (assuming he plays well the next 3 which I both hope and expect) just makes no football sense at all.

To the point of you making the blanket statement that @moondog wrong without any data or reasoning, here are the current PFF rankings. Trent Williams is ranked #1 in the league. Certainly agree they are not perfect. But it's at least reasonable to agree he is in the top 5. They are not going to be that wrong. If you disagree, where is your data? What is your reasoning? Just saying someone is wrong is not value added.

 

Well said brother. Another extremely important point is that Nsekhe is a RFA next year. So you are absolutely right that you tender him and keep all three guys because you really want/need the depth. Nsekhe plays a decent amount even when all three are healthy but Trent, although non injury, is out and even if he wasn't Moses has been dinged up as well. It's nice to know you have a guy like Nsekhe that can step in and you don't miss a beat as opposed to guys in the past like Stephon Heyer (I think that was his name...). 

Trent is under contract and has been worth every single penny. As we pointed out he's still pretty young and playing at a high, maybe the highest, level. Nsekhe is older but you can pretty much guarantee if you put a decent tender on him next you, you can keep him around for at least another year on a very cheap deal that is more than worth it. By the time he's an UFA he'll be damn near 33 and hopefully we've groomed our next swing tackle or you pay him a little bit to keep him around if you want. 

Depth is the key in this league and we've see that the last couple years with guys like Blackmon, Vernon Davis, Spencer Long, etc. It is mind boggling why everyone wants to jettison someone the second we have someone that performs well behind them. That's not how you build success in this league. Not to mention the chemistry. Trent Williams has not only performed at a high level on the field but the guy's been a captain for a long time for a reason. You won't find a single guy on this team that doesn't think very highly of him, his work ethic and what he brings to this team. He's still our best player and absolutely sets the tone on offense. 

[SWFLSkins]

Master Tesfatsion ‏@MasterTes  31s31 seconds ago
Good stat from ESPN: #Redskins OL has controlled the line of scrimmage on 52% of dropbacks. Best in the league.

[Diehard Otis]

On 11/18/2016 at 6:47 PM, goskins10 said:

 

First, these if's are seriously premature - that's the nicest way I can put it. You need to have at least 3 really good tackles in the NFL. Why in the world would we want to let either one go? CAP Space? We are projected to have $46M in cap space next year (2017). We have almost $15M right now. Also, there is a minimum spend requirement for teams now. I believe considering where we were 3 yrs ago when BA got here and now with Scot M, they have shown they know how to manage the cap.

There is no way they move TW even if Ty plays like a pro-bowler the rest of the season. TW is a 28 Y/O pro-bowler. Ty is a 31 Y/O journeyman. I could see them moving him/them around a little and experimenting on the lineup if there is an opportunity to get them both on the field. But to move arguably one of the best LTs in football because his replacement has a few good games (assuming he plays well the next 3 which I both hope and expect) just makes no football sense at all.

 

On 11/18/2016 at 9:26 PM, moondog said:

Well said brother. Another extremely important point is that Nsekhe is a RFA next year. So you are absolutely right that you tender him and keep all three guys because you really want/need the depth. Nsekhe plays a decent amount even when all three are healthy but Trent, although non injury, is out and even if he wasn't Moses has been dinged up as well. It's nice to know you have a guy like Nsekhe that can step in and you don't miss a beat as opposed to guys in the past like Stephon Heyer (I think that was his name...). 

Trent is under contract and has been worth every single penny. As we pointed out he's still pretty young and playing at a high, maybe the highest, level. Nsekhe is older but you can pretty much guarantee if you put a decent tender on him next you, you can keep him around for at least another year on a very cheap deal that is more than worth it. By the time he's an UFA he'll be damn near 33 and hopefully we've groomed our next swing tackle or you pay him a little bit to keep him around if you want. 

Depth is the key in this league and we've see that the last couple years with guys like Blackmon, Vernon Davis, Spencer Long, etc. It is mind boggling why everyone wants to jettison someone the second we have someone that performs well behind them. That's not how you build success in this league. Not to mention the chemistry. Trent Williams has not only performed at a high level on the field but the guy's been a captain for a long time for a reason. You won't find a single guy on this team that doesn't think very highly of him, his work ethic and what he brings to this team. He's still our best player and absolutely sets the tone on offense. 

Not only do I agree with @goskins10 & @moondog, I fail to understand the contrary argument.  Trent Williams (in my opinion) is our BEST Player.  Period.

What is to be gained from trading our Best Player, because his backup played 1 good game in his absence?  We are not the Cleveland Browns.  In their position, it may make more sense to trade him.  But we are a team on the rise, & are squarely in contention right now.  Ole #71 is a cornerstone piece of our Roster's foundation.  It's around Players like him that we should expand upon our Program, in terms of Personnel.

It's topics like these that lead me to believe that Fantasy Football has warped too many fans' understanding of the game.

[Koolblue13]

It is nice to see a replacement do really well, after your captain and one of the highest paid players gets yet another drug suspension.

[Rocky21]

Yeah hats off to our O line.  You need great pass pro to  throw up 300 yard passing days in this league.  

Those guys are playing lights out.  Morgan Moses is one tuff sum **** too

[Larry]

On 11/18/2016 at 6:47 PM, goskins10 said:

 

Why in the world would we want to let either one go? CAP Space? We are projected to have $46M in cap space next year (2017). 

 

Just pointing out, that cap projection assumes that we're playing next year without DJax and Garcon, just to name two players.  

[gortiz]

how about Cooley making the call that that he Skins will put Trey at Guard when he returns ... I would consider it. this was his second 4 game suspension and it's very, very, clear that he does not care about this this team.  It could be a good way to send a message to him. Sounds petty, but you kill two birds with one stone.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

Just pointing out, that cap projection assumes that we're playing next year without DJax and Garcon, just to name two players.  

 

I am fully aware of that. Not sure what the point is here. Not being an ass. But I thought that was pretty well known. It has no impact on this conversation that I can see.

Sorry, but it's would be absolutely stupid to even think of moving either TW or Ty. And CAP is the worst reason.

[zoony]

So trent gets to come back after Dallas refreshed and ready for the playoff push.  Nice job Nsekhe

1 hour ago, gortiz said:

how about Cooley making the call that that he Skins will put Trey at Guard when he returns ... I would consider it. this was his second 4 game suspension and it's very, very, clear that he does not care about this this team.  It could be a good way to send a message to him. Sounds petty, but you kill two birds with one stone.

I don't think you pay $68 million to a pro bowl LT in the off season who "very very clearly does not care about this team".

 

[TheGreek1973]

Ty is such a huge plus for us right now.  Just look what the Vikings DL did to Palmer yesterday, and Griffen couldn't get within 3 yards to Cousins all day long last Sunday.  That can't be overstated.

Personally I feel the one weak link in this OL is Lauvao.  Not that he is bad, but if Callahan plugs Trent there OMG the left side would be all world.  Love to see it IMO, especially in the playoffs, just add another nasty element to this offense.