Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[spjunkies]

1 minute ago, Spearfeather said:

 

They play it every day at 12:00 noon. Customers and employees standing.

Not just some hole in the wall either.

 

I would have to see how the contracts are written, that seems more optional than required. Obviously, most people would opt to just do it than make a big fuss about it.

[The Evil Genius]

13 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

They play it every day at 12:00 noon. Customers and employees standing.

Not just some hole in the wall either.

 

Mission BBQ in VA Beach (or another location) by chance?

 

I'm shocked that a military themed BBQ would play the anthem everyday.

 

Edit...I suspect legally the enforcement of standing would be a nightmare. What does a disabled vet do who's in a wheelchair? Get fired for not falling over?

Edited October 23, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[skinsmarydu]

8 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Mission BBQ in VA Beach (or another location) by chance?

 

I'm shocked that a military themed BBQ would play the anthem everyday.

 

Edit...I suspect legally the enforcement of standing would be a nightmare. What does a disabled vet do who's in a wheelchair? Get fired for not falling over?

Imma go with Cracker Barrel, or the Waffle House jukeboxes that are programmed to.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

31 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

I've been on this earth for 35 years and I've never been in a restaurant that plays the national anthem. That also seems like a major violation, how about people like Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf who refuse to rise due to religious beliefs?

 

23 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

They play it every day at 12:00 noon. Customers and employees standing.

Not just some hole in the wall either.

 

Mîssion BBQ.  It's the corniest thing you've ever seen.

[Spearfeather]

18 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Mission BBQ in VA Beach (or another location) by chance?

 

I'm shocked that a military themed BBQ would play the anthem everyday.

 

Edit...I suspect legally the enforcement of standing would be a nightmare. What does a disabled vet do who's in a wheelchair? Get fired for not falling over?

 

 

Different city 

 

 You don't think a military themed restaurant would make allowances for that ?

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Spearfeather

[The Evil Genius]

Sarcasm.

 

That said..what is and isn't allowed. Physical disabilities? Mental disabilities? Religious beliefs? Moral convictions? It's so hard to keep score these days.

Edited October 23, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[skinsmarydu]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

Mîssion BBQ.  It's the corniest thing you've ever seen.

Like all the employees in a Johnny Rockets singing "Respect" every time it comes on...get back to making my order, thanks.  That's what gets my respect.

I'm just jokin'...I couldn't care less about this entire topic.  I should just gtfo.

[Springfield]

Sitting for the anthem = Not cool

 

A whole stadium yelling “asshole” as the top of their lungs because a ref called a correct penalty = Totally cool

 

What a bunch of silly little ****es.

[dav87sc]

On 10/21/2017 at 2:11 PM, Gamebreaker said:

 

You get called out for using a strawman argument so you decide to double down on said strawman argument instead of owning it. Got it. 

No straw here, buddy.

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean my point is wrong.

 

I have no problem owning what I say.  I said this is a personal/emotional issue for me.  I also said I was trying to look at it from a non-personal issue, in my replies with/to Bang and several others.  If you think mine was a blanket statement about all vets/military personnel, I will stand corrected and amend it to include those that find it offensive.  I can guarantee the number of offended is not an insignificant number.

 

Talking to 1 vet who said it was "less offensive" speaks only to what that vet feels.  And "less offensive" is still offensive, just not enough for him to worry about.

 

Just because someone whines(protests) about something they have a problem with, doesn't mean I disagree with them if I choose not to engage in a forced conversation about it.  And that is what you, and every said kneeler are trying to do, force a conversation about something you don't like.  I don't have to talk about the "reason" someone is protesting.  I can chose to protest the protest, especially if I find it(protest) offensive.  My protest of the time/place/method of the attempted forced conversation is equally valid as the original protest.

 

I went so far as to suggest ways to start/carry on this conversation in ways that would not be found offensive, and would be more productive.  If you want to get lost on the "blanket statement" nonsense, go ahead.  You are not focusing on the issue, like I was.

 

When you quoted me, you discredited the fact that military dependents also make sacrifices.  Whether that is a spouse trying to keep a household afloat while the other is deployed, a child(ren) trying to cope without a parent at home for months/years at a time, being moved regularly around the country/world, or just not having a regular place to call "home".  And that doesn't even touch the fear of that spouse/parent never coming home alive again.  Any thoughts, or are you just too wrapped up in trying to find a little victory?

 

So, are you more than a "you use global statements so you must be a racist hater" kind of guy or do you have some other substance to you?  So far, you arguments seem petty.

-Dav87sc

 

[Hersh]

22 minutes ago, dav87sc said:

-Dav87sc

 

 

Do you support POTUS Trump? or did you vote for him? 

 

If so and for anyone that did, why is kneeling during the Anthem disrespectful toward the military but not when Trump said things like "I like people who weren't captured?" I mean, even if people don't like Senator McCain, it's not like he was the only POW. There are some other examples of things that are disrespectful to symbols of this country that I won't get into now but I'm looking for what makes one okay and one not.  

PS- I have no problem with people that don't like the kneeling as a form of protest (it's not whining) 

[dav87sc]

Hersh, this was my response to this very question a month ago, in this very conversation thread.

 

On 9/25/2017 at 6:02 PM, dav87sc said:

I don't gloss over it.  What he said was idiotic.  Of course it matters he hasn't apologized.  I don't hold out any hope he will.  I think his personal dislike for McCain will keep him form doing that.  Just like I think McCain's personal dislike for Trump will keep him from voting for things he campaigned on.  I truly think he got caught making a flippant remark about McCain, thinking he was making McCain seem less a good candidate, and didn't realize until too late just what an ass he made himself out to be with that statement.  I don't think it is his nature to apologize, so I think he just moves forward and hopes his mistakes just get swept away.  Unfortunately, that and many more won't/can't.

 

I did not vote for Trump in the primary.  I did in the general election.

Personally, what I saw of Hillary made me shudder to think what would happen if she were to be elected.  I think she displayed even less regard or respect for the military and this country than Trump did with McCain.  I won't even go into all the specifics.  Suffice it to say, I saw this election as choosing a lesser of 2 weak candidates.

The whining comment was a general statement, not just specific to this particular protest.

 

As far as Hillary is concerned,  I find her very open disdain and disregard for the military something I could never support in a a Commander-In-Chief.  She is sooooooo corrupt, and her selling the State Department for her personal gain only put her in the most open position to be compromised by Russia and who knows who else.

-Dav87sc

Edited October 24, 2017 by dav87sc
added 2nd thought

[dav87sc]

Hersh,

 

idiotic and disrespectful.

 

-Dav87sc

[visionary]

You could say the same about Trump, but ten times more.  Openly mocking our military leaders and their plans and the soldiers themselves,  disrespecting Gold Star family members over and over, corruption beyond any possible comparison by him, his family, and his cabinet, and open courting and leg humping of Putin and dictatorships around the world.  To favorably compare him to Hillary in those aspects is ludicrous. 

 

You are allowed to have a different opinion of course, but I should say it's also ok to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by visionary

[Busch1724]

16 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Whats funny is it seems the networks have saved us by just not showing the kneeling or the anthem.

 

 

Well they didn't save us. They are saving themselves. I'm pretty sure ratings, sponsors, and that owners meeting last week may have had something to with it. I have noticed the last couple of Sunday Thursday night games; the anthem wasn't shown. I can't remember for certain about the Monday night games. I didn't see it either for the Sunday afternoon games this past week. 

[Gamebreaker]

15 hours ago, dav87sc said:

No straw here, buddy.

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean my point is wrong.

 

It doesn't mean it's right either. 

 

Quote

I have no problem owning what I say.  I said this is a personal/emotional issue for me.  I also said I was trying to look at it from a non-personal issue, in my replies with/to Bang and several others.  If you think mine was a blanket statement about all vets/military personnel, I will stand corrected and amend it to include those that find it offensive.  I can guarantee the number of offended is not an insignificant number.

 

In your original post I quoted, you made zero consideration for veterans who not only found it "less offensive" but actually supported the protest and agreed with it. That's my issue with what you stated, you completely ignored a percentage of veterans who didn't agree with you(and yes, there is a substantial number) because of your personal feelings. 

 

Quote

Just because someone

whines(protests) about something they have a problem with, doesn't mean I disagree with them if I choose not to engage in a forced conversation about it.  And that is what you, and every said kneeler are trying to do, force a conversation about something you don't like.  I don't have to talk about the "reason" someone is protesting.  I can chose to protest the protest, especially if I find it(protest) offensive.  My protest of the time/place/method of the attempted forced conversation is equally valid as the original protest.

 

Here in the bold is more bull**** that will get us no where. Calling people who protest whiners isn't going to make your point any more valid, nor will it actually end the debate or conversation. It's just childish bull**** from people who don't give a **** about those they don't understand, and don't care to understand. Furthermore, miss me with the "forced conversation" nonsense. If you decide to comment on the kneeling, but completely ignore the meaning of the protest, it absolutely says a lot about your character. You don't want to feel "forced" to have a ****ing conversation about people being abused by police? Your silence is an answer in itself. Your pushback on even addressing it is an even bigger answer on how you feel on the topic. Your excuses are weak. 

 

Quote

I went so far as to suggest ways to start/carry on this conversation in ways that would not be found offensive, and would be more productive.  If you want to get lost on the "blanket statement" nonsense, go ahead. 

You are not focusing on the issue, like I was. 

 

You obviously have not seen my posts in this thread, or in other similar threads in the Tailgate. I have been discussing productive ways to resolve the issues raised by the protest for a long time. I didn't need to be forced to talk about it either. 

 

Quote

When you quoted me, you discredited the fact that military dependents also make sacrifices. 

 

No, I did not. 

 

Quote

So, are you more than a "you use global statements so you must be a racist hater" kind of guy or do you have some other substance to you?  So far, you arguments seem petty.

 

What I can say, when I see a spade I call it. And frankly, I'll take being petty over being callous and uncaring. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Gamebreaker

[The Evil Genius]

Prior to this year, I truly don't recall networks usually showing the anthem before regular season  NFL games.

 

Did they? 

 

 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

Prior to this year, I truly don't recall networks usually showing the anthem before regular season  NFL games.

 

Did they? 

 

 

 

Think it was only on nationally televised ones. Like Playoffs and Monday nights. 

[The Evil Genius]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Think it was only on nationally televised ones. Like Playoffs and Monday nights. 

 

So more fake patriotism (like requiring the players to be on the field for it)?

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

So more fake patriotism (like requiring the players to be on the field for it)?

 

Well i mena they even make the military pay for it. Totally fake. The majority just wont get that deep into it though. 

[Hersh]

10 hours ago, dav87sc said:

Hersh,

 

idiotic and disrespectful.

 

-Dav87sc

Just clarifying, you are talking about Trump's statements? Not sure. 

 

 

NM, I see what you meant. Thanks. I appreciate the reply. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Hersh

[dav87sc]

6 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

In your original post I quoted, you made zero consideration for veterans who not only found it "less offensive" but actually supported the protest and agreed with it. That's my issue with what you stated, you completely ignored a percentage of veterans who didn't agree with you(and yes, there is a substantial number) because of your personal feelings.

I also was discussing the League position and policy regarding player conduct.

I already amended my statement.

 

6 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

Furthermore, miss me with the "forced conversation" nonsense. If you decide to comment on the kneeling, but completely ignore the meaning of the protest, it absolutely says a lot about your character. You don't want to feel "forced" to have a ****ing conversation about people being abused by police? Your silence is an answer in itself. Your pushback on even addressing it is an even bigger answer on how you feel on the topic. Your excuses are weak

Miss you?  I chose to join a particular conversation in a forum that invites conversation about a topic, and because I don't respond in a way that you think is correct, I am somehow pro-oppression and police brutality?  Your conclusions and personal attacks are nothing short of astounding and shameful.  Nowhere in this thread did it state the conversation must be only on the reason for the protest.  If that is the case, I will go elsewhere.  It is no wonder that only on side of this conversation is had in this forum. Anyone who disagrees or isn't part of "group think" is somehow the devil incarnate. Sorry to say, NO!

 

6 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

You obviously have not seen my posts in this thread, or in other similar threads in the Tailgate. I have been discussing productive ways to resolve the issues raised by the protest for a long time. I didn't need to be forced to talk about it either. 

Nope, didn't read a thing you wrote anywhere else.  I am directly replying to your personal attacks against me.

Not taking away from or adding to anything else you may have discussed.

 

6 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

Quote

When you quoted me, you discredited the fact that military dependents also make sacrifices. 

 

No, I did not.

In fact you directly did.  I will highlight exactly your reply.

On 9/25/2017 at 4:59 PM, dav87sc said:

 

Kneeling players are disrespecting the sacrifice of our military community, past, present, and future.  And, by the way, it is not just those serving. The families of those serving also sacrifice. 

 

Here is why that is complete nonsense:

 

Yup, directly did.  That is nothing short of disgusting!

 

6 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

What I can say, when I see a spade I call it. And frankly, I'll take being petty over being callous and uncaring. 

So, call me whatever name you want.  You can join the other group thinkers here and resort to name-calling and personal attacks when someone has a different position or thought than you.

 

In the end, Sho'nuff is defeated and loses the fight.  Fitting end.  I will not further respond to your comments unless you decide to be civil, and have something meaningful to bring to this.

 

You see, I don't have to be forced into a conversation, I chose to be a part of it.  I can/will also choose to not be a part of it, if I find it is not productive and lowers itself into ad hominem attacks.

-Dav87sc

 

[dav87sc]

17 hours ago, visionary said:

You could say the same about Trump, but ten times more.  Openly mocking our military leaders and their plans and the soldiers themselves,  disrespecting Gold Star family members over and over, corruption beyond any possible comparison by him, his family, and his cabinet, and open courting and leg humping of Putin and dictatorships around the world.  To favorably compare him to Hillary in those aspects is ludicrous. 

 

You are allowed to have a different opinion of course, but I should say it's also ok to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.

 

I don't see voting for Trump over Hillary as a mistake.

You seem to completely ignore the entire Clinton Foundation money laundering scheme involving players from many other countries trying to buy influence from her when she was SOS and with hope for her becoming POTUS.  It is completely amazing how all of the money going into the Foundation just stopped dead when she lost.  Not pay to play?  You can't possible believe that was on the up and up.  That, by definition, is what is labelled as a being open to blackmail.  Not a position that the POTUS should be in.

 

How about what I would term her attempt at stolen valor - "landing under sniper fire" and having to duck and run to cover.  Such bs.

Nope, couldn't support or vote for that.

 

If the current state of relations with Russia is the product of leg humping, then I would really hate to see what it would be like if Hillary was in office.  I find it humorous you want to cast him as leg humping dictators, yet everyone was howling at how he treated other Heads of State when private phone calls were leaked illegally - nobody was characterizing that as leg humping.

 

The issue with 2 Gold Star families is bad.  I don't disagree.  I also don't think this most recent one started as any intentional slight, regardless of what Frederica Wilson says.  I don't envy anyone who makes those kinds of calls, or anyone who receives those calls. Those calls by nature suck, as someone has died.

If you listen to the tape of the call he made to one of the other wives, he seemed to repeat himself and truly be at a loss for what else to say.  I think that is only human. Sgt. La David Johnson's widow certainly is the one to determine how she felt, and there is no arguing that.  I find it a little peculiar that Wilson just happened to be there when the call was made.  There are calls made ahead of time to see if the call from the President would be taken.  It wasn't just a cold call from him.  So why would she interject herself into the middle of this very personal call.  I don't know for sure, but it seems to me like she was willing to make something more from this than was intended.  If you want to argue Trump was tongue tied or spoke in a way that didn't carry well, I won't disagree.

 

As far as Hillary, I won't even go into the Benghazi fiasco, and the lies to those families and the entire world about it being caused by that video.

 

Politicians staking positions on how they would task the military or do things differently is not new.  I heard many Democratic members from the House and Senate regularly and openly criticize the military leadership during GWB's presidency, and the ensuing election campaigns.  You can't be indignant about one and not take the same position about the others.

 

We hold political positions that are opposite, but that is what makes this country great.  Neither of us are going to get locked up or knocked off and dumped in a field somewhere because we dare speak it.

[Springfield]

Not yet

[Busch1724]

Granted this article summary is from Deadspin, but the source article in which the summary is from is a very good read.

 

Summary: https://deadspin.com/it-was-roger-goodell-vs-jerry-jones-on-national-anthem-1819905690

 

Source Article: http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/21170410/gaffes-tv-ratings-concerns-dominated-nfl-players-forged-anthem-peace-league-meetings

 

Give quite a bit of insight into guys like Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Robert Kraft, Terry Pagula, and Bob McNair.

 

The line from McNair during the meetings about, "We can't have the inmates run the prison" has serious potential ramifications moving forward. Roger does come across as being sincere about sticking up for the players on this issue. Good for him. 

 

 

[visionary]