Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[The Evil Genius]

So that was the commercial that people were pissed about?

 

Talk about snowflakes. MAGAts need to do a little introspection.

[TheGreatBuzz]

8 hours ago, Llevron said:

Long story short there is a lot of *shocker* racism in the police force and black officers unionized to protect their interests. 

 

Yall gotta stop pretending you dont know this **** already. 

I got no issue with a black only or some other minority only.  I just didn't think there would be a white only.

[Llevron]

12 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I got no issue with a black only or some other minority only.  I just didn't think there would be a white only.

 

There isn't. But the NBPA isn't black only. Its never been about "you have to be black" its been about "We are looking out for the blacks". You don't have to be black to look out for black interests. 

 

I acknowledge the perception, because it has the word black in it and I know that can come off a certain type of way. But thats basically the same perception black people have about the FOP and thats not an all white org. 

[grego]

Quote

 

Multiple officials I spoke with share some of the same grievances as Black Lives Matter. For example, they unanimously disapprove of police unions protecting officers who are fired for misconduct. Indeed, “we’ve all been sued [by police unions],” Davis said, referring to cases where he’s been challenged for firing employees he alleged behaved unfairly toward minorities.

The Fraternal Order of Police, the largest police union in the United States, promotes a defend-at-all-costs culture, some suggested. “When something controversial goes on with the police in Chicago, the media interviews the union president—who’s not even part of the administration of the police department,” Davis lamented. In recent years, the FOP has offended some of its black members by investing in the defense fund for Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Missouri, officer who shot Michael Brown in 2014; hiring Jason Van Dyke, the Chicago officer who was fired for shooting Laquan Mcdonald 16 times in 2014; and endorsing Trump’s candidacy.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-long-history-of-black-officers-reforming-policing-from-within/547457/

 

while i dont have a disagreement specifically with the wilson defense, i do have a problem with the van dyke rehiring and the hiring of police fired for misconduct in general, as well as the 'protect our own at all costs' union position. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/police-fired-rehired/?utm_term=.81cbafad9c98

Quote

 

A San Antonio police officer caught on a dash cam challenging a handcuffed man to fight him for the chance to be released was reinstated in February. In the District, an officer convicted of sexually abusing a young woman in his patrol carwas ordered returned to the force in 2015. And in Boston, an officer was returned to work in 2012 despite being accused of lying, drunkenness and driving a suspected gunman from the scene of a nightclub killing.

The chiefs say the appeals process leaves little margin for error. Yet police agencies sometimes sabotage their own attempts to shed troubled officers by making procedural mistakes. The result is that police chiefs have booted hundreds of officers they have deemed unfit to be in their ranks, only to be compelled to take them back and return them to the streets with guns and badges.

“It’s demoralizing, but not just to the chief,” said Charles H. Ramsey, former police commissioner in Philadelphia and chief in the District. Philadelphia and the District together have had to rehire 80 fired officers since 2006, three of them twice.

“It’s demoralizing to the rank and file who really don’t want to have those kinds of people in their ranks,” Ramsey said. “It causes a tremendous amount of anxiety in the public. Our credibility is shot whenever these things happen.”

 

 

absolutely correct. 

 

 

Quote

 

Community Policing: The NBPA supports the philosophy of Community Policing that calls for a true, cooperative partnership between the Community and the Police for safer communities.

Control of Narcotics: The NBPA believes that the influx of hard narcotics into this country can only be controlled by a joint effort between the supplying country and the federal government.[2]

Crime Prevention: The NBPA supports the allocation of more national and local crime fighting resources toward the prevention of crime.

Capital Punishment: The NBPA protests the application of capital punishment in all instances. The NBPA feels that capital punishment is un-American, unjust, and unconstitutional.[3]

Handgun Control: The NBPA supports national handgun legislation prohibiting further manufacturing of handguns and limiting their sales, possession, and use.

Police Brutality: The NBPA believes Police brutality must be confronted, controlled, and outlawed by all police departments throughout the United States.

Police Officer Residency: The NBPA believes Police should be required and have their official residency in the city or municipality in which they are employed.

Women in Police Work: The NBPA supports women as equal and equitable partners in the field of law enforcement, and believes them capable of performing equally as well as their male counterparts.

 

 

i agree with pretty much all of their position, except the prohibiting of manufacturing of guns.

•  

Edited September 7, 2018 by grego

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

11 hours ago, Popeman38 said:

No ****! And why are their “black police unions”? Shouldn’t it just be a “police union”?

The NBPA exists for a reason.

 

The same reason the NAACP, CBC,HBCUs etc exists.

 

 

[Popeman38]

43 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

The NBPA exists for a reason.

 

The same reason the NAACP, CBC,HBCUs etc exists.

OK, so the NPBA is not a union. I assumed since they were bashing "white police unions" that they were a black police union. My issue was a union is supposed to represent all workers, not just a subset based on race...

[TradeTheBeal!]

We have a winner!

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

[visionary]

 

[B&G]

I don't disregard the very legitimate complaint people of color make about discrimination on the part of some police.  Nor do I condemn all police for the actions of those from their ranks who do discriminate. 

 

Further, I appreciate non-violent demonstrations or protests in support of virtually any position, political, controversial or what have you. That is our right as Americans.

 

Even though it is our right to protest by remaining seated during the pledge, the anthem, or presentation of the colors, it is a bad idea in my view.  We show our unity, despite our differences, by respecting the flag, the country it represents and the people who fought and died to protect it and us.

 

All Americans should fight against injustice every day.  But we should use our heads about venues when doing so.

Edited September 11, 2018 by B&G

[Cooked Crack]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

For the most part, doesn't everyone agree they have the right to kneel?  The argument is if they should exercise that right.  saying they don't have the right would mean they are breaking the law, no?

[Kilmer17]

And if the business owners are within their rights to make employees adhere to standards 

[AsburySkinsFan]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

For the most part, doesn't everyone agree they have the right to kneel?  The argument is if they should exercise that right.  saying they don't have the right would mean they are breaking the law, no?

There are many who would disagree. 

 

36 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

And if the business owners are within their rights to make employees adhere to standards 

I think that's one of the questions, and I don't know that the business owners have the right to force them to stand. Believe it or not just because you pay someone doesn't mean that you get to dictate their every move, even when they're on the clock and ESPECIALLY if they have a specifically negotiated contract. If they have a contract then as the business owner you only have the right to demand adherence to the contract, and if they don't then you have a choice to make. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

There are many who would disagree

I haven't seen much of anyone say they don't have the right.  (in that they could be in trouble from the government for not standing.)

 

1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

I think that's one of the questions, and I don't know that the business owners have the right to force them to stand. Believe it or not just because you pay someone doesn't mean that you get to dictate their every move, even when they're on the clock and ESPECIALLY if they have a specifically negotiated contract. If they have a contract then as the business owner you only have the right to demand adherence to the contract, and if they don't then you have a choice to make

From what I have seen, most agree the NFL can require them to stand.  The question is if the NFL should.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Sooooo Mychal Kendricks can get busted for insider trading and get a job with the Seahawks but Kap can't get a job as a QB somewhere in a league that's starved for quarterbacks.  I watched some of the Bills/Ravens game last weekend, the Bills are ****ed.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24667300/ex-browns-lb-mychal-kendricks-signing-1-year-deal-seahawks

 

Shows exactly what the NFL tolerates.  Beat up your wife/gf (as long as it's not on video), all things Richie Incognito, drugs, dogfighting, insider trading, we'll take you back.  Protest and stand up for your beliefs?  You're ****ed.

 

Again, I'm pro-standing but don't get upset that players choose to kneel and peaceful protest.  Kap should be in the league.  He ain't a great QB but there's certainly worse on rosters right now.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Spaceman Spiff

[Cooked Crack]

13 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I haven't seen much of anyone say they don't have the right.  (in that they could be in trouble from the government for not standing.)

I mean the President has said they maybe shouldn't be in the country. Heck, he says anyone burning the flag should be stripped of their citizenship or thrown in jail.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

The whole thing is a joke at this point. The most exploited cause / protest I can recall. For most, it’s more about political fealty, fostering division, and turning a buck than it is about protesting social injustice or respecting our troops.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The whole thing is a joke at this point. The most exploited cause / protest I can recall. For most, it’s more about political fealty, fostering division, and turning a buck than it is about protesting social injustice or respecting our troops.

 

I'm starting to wish Nike didn't do this ad campaign. We're past the point of bringing attention to the issue, now what are you going to do about it, Nike?  Sell shoes?

Edited September 14, 2018 by Renegade7

[Captain Wiggles]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm starting to wish Nike didn't do this ad campaign. We're past the point of bringing attention to the issue, now what are you going to do about it, Nike?  Sell shoes?

 

Nike will probably just sit back and watch their stock prices go up. Then follow up with another ad campaign. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm starting to wish Nike didn't do this ad campaign. We're past the point of bringing attention to the issue, now what are you going to do about it, Nike?  Sell shoes?

Yes to sell shoes. You didn't think they did it to champion the cause, did you? Nike's marketing team is one of the best there is. Their courage was based on a lot of number crunching and an understanding that people's emotions and biases can be used for their own gain.

 

And any mouthbreathing, Trump supporting morons who may have read that first paragraph and said, "Hell yeah! This guy gets it!!" Well you're an idiot. You think the team of top experts who have spent their entire lives perfecting the art of advertising never saw your social media performances of burning their **** coming? Pfft... You're making them so much money with your little theatrics.

 

Oh, and if you originally thought "Hell yeah!" when reading that first paragraph, it also means you agree with my statement that people can be manipulated by their emotions and biases. Guess what? You know that guy who faked bone spurs to get out of Vietnam, compared his time sleeping around dodging STDs to fighting in the war, insulted John McCain for being a POW, insulted a Gold Star family, claimed to donate $10,000 to a fund for the families of those killed on 9/11 then didn't, doesn't know the words to the national anthem, doesn't know how to color an American flag, didn't call the families of servicemen who had been killed until he was called out on it and then lied about Obama not doing the same for no apparent reason in a sorry attempt to cover his ass, etc etc etc? Yeah, he doesn't give a single, solitary **** about the troops.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Renegade7]

Tell us how you really fell, Sacks.  Feel like you've been holding back lately.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Tell us how you really fell, Sacks.  Feel like you've been holding back lately.

Yeah, I'm coaching 7 teams this fall so a little distracted.

[scruffylookin]

This continues to be such a stupid non issue beyond the fact that Colin has in fact been blacklisted out of the nfl. 

 

Employers have no right to force an employee to stand for the anthem. Period. And yeah I know the loophole they are trying to use is “you can stay in the locker room until it’s over” bs. 

 

First, if Colin had done that, the mouthbreathers would still have railed against him and he still would be blacklisted. Anyone actually believe otherwise?

 

Second, when “patriotism” has been turned into supporting militarism, which has been happening in this country for over 30 years, then standing for the anthem can be viewed as a political statement, thus not standing is likewise a free exercise of a political stance. 

 

As as long as we continue to spiral down as a country where more and more we act as if military “service” makes one more of a citizen than those who have not, the anthem and all the militarism that goes along with it now a days, has become political. 

 

It is a sad pathetic state of affairs when figuratively genuflecting to the military is patriotic yet literally taking a knee to bring awareness to fellow citizens’ plight is demonized. 

[grego]

8 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

Again, I'm pro-standing but don't get upset that players choose to kneel and peaceful protest.  Kap should be in the league.  He ain't a great QB but there's certainly worse on rosters right now.

 

 

 

i think there are couple of things that this position gets wrong- how good (or bad) Keap was his last 2ish years as a starter, (some of his passing stats are the worst or among the worst in the league over that time). how his style is not ideal for a backup, and the crap in terms of distraction a team has to deal with if they sign him. not to mention the financial hit a team would likely take or the other baggage- the gf tweet probably put a nail in the coffin of his nfl career. as an owner, i would stay away based on that as much as anything. put it all together, and what do you get?

 

i say this while taking your side in terms of can he or should he be able to do it and thinking some good will come of it. 

2 hours ago, scruffylookin said:

This continues to be such a stupid non issue beyond the fact that Colin has in fact been blacklisted out of the nfl. 

 

Employers have no right to force an employee to stand for the anthem. Period. And yeah I know the loophole they are trying to use is “you can stay in the locker room until it’s over” bs. 

 

First, if Colin had done that, the mouthbreathers would still have railed against him and he still would be blacklisted. Anyone actually believe otherwise?

 

Second, when “patriotism” has been turned into supporting militarism, which has been happening in this country for over 30 years, then standing for the anthem can be viewed as a political statement, thus not standing is likewise a free exercise of a political stance. 

 

As as long as we continue to spiral down as a country where more and more we act as if military “service” makes one more of a citizen than those who have not, the anthem and all the militarism that goes along with it now a days, has become political. 

 

It is a sad pathetic state of affairs when figuratively genuflecting to the military is patriotic yet literally taking a knee to bring awareness to fellow citizens’ plight is demonized. 

 

 

why did you put service in quotes?