Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

The narrative has been it's "disrespectful to the troops", yet when veterans say they don't think it's disrespectful and the fact a veteran told Kaep to do it that way, it's ignored. People who are angry about this simply don't want to address the reason for the protest, and they are angry that these lesser-than Americans have the audacity to complain about anything in "our" country. 

I'd just like to point out that a veteran saying he is cool with it carries no more weight than a vet who says he isnt cool with it.  Neither speak for all veterans.

 

At best, a poll is probably the best way to gauge it.  The below link is the first thing that came up.  

https://iava.org/anthem/

 

But citing a couple vets from either side should not be a defense to either position. 

[tshile]

6 hours ago, PeterMP said:

In terms of police safety, why do individual cops even approach cars today?  In an age of red light and speeding cameras and the like, for a minor offense, why doesn't the cop just pull you over, take a picture of the license plate, make a report, turn their lights off letting you go, and then you get a ticket in a few days?  

 

Because a lot of police work gets done through routine traffic stops. Drugs, warrants, dui, etc. they may pull you over for speeding but they’re talking to you to see what else they can get. 

 

Cops dont generally like writing speeding tickets. It’s an excuse to talk to you and see what’s going on. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Commercial to air tomorrow during the NFL opening game.

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

Nike is good at commercials.  

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by PleaseBlitz

[JSSkinz]

8 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I can't also find where he actually called cops pigs.  He wore "cop pig socks" at one point in time and made this statement about them:

So you need him to verbalize it?  Did you not understand what the socks meant?

 

Concerning who he donated money to.

 

The Colin Kaepernick Foundation donated in April $25,000 to Assata’s Daughters, a Chicago “direct action” resistance organization honoring Assata Shakur, who escaped prison and fled to Cuba after being found guilty in the 1973 murder of Officer Werner Foerster.

After graduation, she began using the name Assata Shakur, and briefly joined the Black Panther Party. She then joined the Black Liberation Army, a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers.

 

I just pulled this stuff right of Wiki so I didn't do a deep dive into the history but you can look up what Assata Shakur was all about.  I don't have a problem with Kap being a militant who supports the Black Liberation Army and Black Panther Party, he'll probably tell you right to your face he is a militant, at least he owns it but I'm not so sure everyone who supports him really understands the depth of what he believes.

[PleaseBlitz]

http://www.assatasdaughters.org/our-politics/

 

Quote

We fight for quality public schools and healthcare for all. We fight for a world where women and femmes can live without fear of physical or sexual violence. We fight for economic stability for all Black people. We fight for gender self-determination and all other forms of self-determination. We fight for strong, well-resourced communities that keep people safe and make police and prisons obsolete. We fight to abolish anti-Blackness and all forms of oppression.

Throughout our struggle for liberation, we maintain a radical understanding and approach to intersectionality. We strive to celebrate, explore, stretch, shatter, re-build, re-create, and re-imagine Black girlhood and womanhood. We come together as people who find power, questions, and/or struggle in their identity as a woman and/or the socialization as a woman/girl and want to work through those in an expansive community.

 Overall, we work to escalate, deepen, and sustain the larger Black Lives Matter movement.

 

Look at these radical militants

 

 

Edit:  Given the links, it appears that you pulled it right off the Washington Times, not Wikipedia, specifically here:  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/28/colin-kaepernick-charity-donates-25000-to-assatas-/

Edited September 5, 2018 by PleaseBlitz

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Ford was on board with this, since 2017

 

https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/25/news/ford-nfl-protests/index.html

Edited September 5, 2018 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[JSSkinz]

54 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

http://www.assatasdaughters.org/our-politics/

 

 

Look at these radical militants

 

 

Edit:  Given the links, it appears that you pulled it right off the Washington Times, not Wikipedia, specifically here:  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/28/colin-kaepernick-charity-donates-25000-to-assatas-/

They look very sweet and no I didn't pull it from the Washington Times, I Googled the name Assata Shakur because that's who the foundation honors.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata_Shakur

 

 

This is from the Assata Daughter's website:

 

About Us:

Assata’s Daughters was formed in March 2015 in order to address a shortage in programming and community for women identified young Black people in Chicago. Founded, planned, and operated by Black women, Assata’s Daughters carries on the tradition of radical liberatory activism encompassed by Assata Shakur.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by JSSkinz

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

So you need him to verbalize it?  Did you not understand what the socks meant?

 

Concerning who he donated money to.

 

The Colin Kaepernick Foundation donated in April $25,000 to Assata’s Daughters, a Chicago “direct action” resistance organization honoring Assata Shakur, who escaped prison and fled to Cuba after being found guilty in the 1973 murder of Officer Werner Foerster.

After graduation, she began using the name Assata Shakur, and briefly joined the Black Panther Party. She then joined the Black Liberation Army, a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the US government through tactics such as robbing banks and killing police officers and drug dealers.

 

I just pulled this stuff right of Wiki so I didn't do a deep dive into the history but you can look up what Assata Shakur was all about.  I don't have a problem with Kap being a militant who supports the Black Liberation Army and Black Panther Party, he'll probably tell you right to your face he is a militant, at least he owns it but I'm not so sure everyone who supports him really understands the depth of what he believes.

 

Did you read the statement he made when he wore the socks where he specifically talked about some cops being rogue cops and the socks being about them and I quoted?

 

Do you disagree that some cops are bad cops?  Can he wear socks with pigs as cops with the objective of calling out those cops and not all cops?

Edited September 6, 2018 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

They look very sweet and no I didn't pull it from the Washington Times, I Googled the name Assata Shakur because that's who the foundation honors.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata_Shakur

 

 

This is from the Assata Daughter's website:

 

About Us:

Assata’s Daughters was formed in March 2015 in order to address a shortage in programming and community for women identified young Black people in Chicago. Founded, planned, and operated by Black women, Assata’s Daughters carries on the tradition of radical liberatory activism encompassed by Assata Shakur.

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the only crime she was ever convicted of is related to the shooting, which she denies.  She says she was shot while surrendering.

 

Maybe their idea of her "radical liberatory activism" is different than yours?  Maybe they don't see her as a robber and killer?

 

So why don't you tell us something that they've done that you think is bad?  Who have they killed, robbed, kidnapped, etc?  Why don't we judge them by their actions (and Kap for donating to them).

4 hours ago, tshile said:

 

Because a lot of police work gets done through routine traffic stops. Drugs, warrants, dui, etc. they may pull you over for speeding but they’re talking to you to see what else they can get. 

 

Cops dont generally like writing speeding tickets. It’s an excuse to talk to you and see what’s going on. 

 

Is it worth it?  My understanding from talking to cops is that's the most dangerous and scary part of the job.  How much value is actually added to society for those "extra things" they get vs. the risk to their lives?

 

(And I'll point out for something like a DUI or warrant, they'd probably have a pretty good idea that there is an issue other than speeding.  In which case, you call another cop and wait.  Somebody that's really DUI isn't going to sober up in 10 minutes it takes for another cop to get there.)

[grego]

peter, i feel you. shakur may not have actually shot a cop that day. but what about the BLA that she was unquestionably part of? i'm not sure the "i was part of a militant movement that allegedly robbed banks, hijacked airplanes and may have shot a dozen or so cops, but i didnt shoot one that day" would fly if this was someone else. 

 

now, if they didn't do those things, that's another story. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Watching a grown American man cling to the Shakur case like a life preserver in 2018 is the goofiest **** ever.  

 

Cant imagine carrying that grudge for 45 years and counting and letting it inform my every political conversation...until I die.  It’s like a 35 year old still pining for the lover that dumped them in high school.

 

But far, far worse.

Edited September 6, 2018 by TryTheBeal!

[PeterMP]

18 minutes ago, grego said:

peter, i feel you. shakur may not have actually shot a cop that day. but what about the BLA that she was unquestionably part of? i'm not sure the "i was part of a militant movement that allegedly robbed banks, hijacked airplanes and may have shot a dozen or so cops, but i didnt shoot one that day" would fly if this was someone else. 

 

now, if they didn't do those things, that's another story. 

 

I already said, I'm not saying she was a good person.  I wouldn't have named an organization after her based on what I know.  I haven't donated money to them and don't plan to.

 

But in terms of Kap and his donation, why not get beyond that and to what the organization is actually doing?

 

All Christian churches are named after Christ, but they aren't all the same, and they can have very different ideas of what Christ's message was.

 

(And again, my point is really with respect to the FOP.  It doesn't even matter.  He didn't make a donation to her family.  Even if the organization is bad (which I'm not sure it is), the FOP statement was still wrong.  Which just makes the FOP look bad.  You're the national FOP.  It took me 5 minutes and google to understand that their press release was wrong.  Do a little work to fact check your press releases.

 

What she actually did and what she actually stood for is essentially irrelevant.  The national FOP voluntarily put out a statement that contained at least 3 questionable points, which I discovered in 10 minutes with google.  That's a bad look for your organization.)

Edited September 6, 2018 by PeterMP

[tshile]

40 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Is it worth it?  My understanding from talking to cops is that's the most dangerous and scary part of the job.  How much value is actually added to society for those "extra things" they get vs. the risk to their lives?

 

(And I'll point out for something like a DUI or warrant, they'd probably have a pretty good idea that there is an issue other than speeding.

 

I don’t know if it’s worth it. And it is the most dangerous part of their job. It’s a good idea to be cooperative, it’s very stressful for them. 

 

And I disagree that running a plate will give them any clue about someone inside having a warrant. Even drugs or alcohol. 

 

Thinking about it more I have a hard time believing they, knowing it’s the most dangerous part of the job, continue to do it so much if they weren’t getting value from it. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by tshile

[Spaceman Spiff]

Only in the Tailgate could a conversation about kneeling for the National Anthem get spun around into a did she/didn't she argument about Tupac's mom.

[PeterMP]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I don’t know if it’s worth it. And it is the most dangerous part of their job. It’s a good idea to be cooperative, it’s very stressful for them. 

 

And I disagree that running a plate will give them any clue about someone inside having a warrant. Even drugs or alcohol. 

 

Thinking about it more I have a hard time believing they, knowing it’s the most dangerous part of the job, continue to do it so much if they weren’t getting value from it. 

 

Eh, people do all sorts of things with risk without much value.  You get into that's the way it has always been done.

 

I can't find number of deaths by cops associated with traffic stops (they have by traffics, guns, etc, but not how many traffic deaths were traffic stops vs. getting an accident and how many were shootings not associated with traffic stops).

 

How many lives do you think they save a year by actually going to the car when there isn't good reason based on the plate, car, and the way the person was driving (e.g. not obviously DUI)?

 

Walter Scott would almost certainly still be a alive and the cop that shot him wouldn't be looking at 20 years in jail.  I doubt that Walter Scott was going to result in the death of anybody if he hadn't been killed.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Spoiler

Y’all ready to boycott Nike over a black guy, but won’t boycott the Catholic Church for ****ing y’all’s kids.

Bad language 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

I believe the only crime she was ever convicted of is related to the shooting, which she denies.  She says she was shot while surrendering.

 

Ok

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Did you read the statement he made when he wore the socks where he specifically talked about some cops being rogue cops and the socks being about them and I quoted?

 

Yes, and putting a pig on your sock is a great way to get through to people, especially good law enforcement officers who do things the correct way.

 

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

So why don't you tell us something that they've done that you think is bad?  Who have they killed, robbed, kidnapped, etc?  Why don't we judge them by their actions (and Kap for donating to them).

1

I have no clue, I just learned of the pig socks and donations today from this thread and then I read the Times article, I've stayed away from this debate because it's not a make or break for me.

 

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Do you disagree that some cops are bad cops?  

Yes, too many.

 

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Can he wear socks with pigs as cops with the objective of calling out those cops and not all cops?

In theory yes, in reality, no.

 

And I'm not boycotting Nike.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by JSSkinz

[tshile]

@PeterMP

 

best at I can find

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/12/are-most-job-related-deaths-of-police-caused-by-traffic-incidents/

 

I didn’t read it on twitter, I was told it by a leo. 

[The Evil Genius]

Time to go wreck your Ford, dumb**** MAGAts.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[Popeman38]

Players have a right to protest. Technically, their employer has the right to enact rules. Rights protect you against the government, not private enterprise. In theory, the NFL could implement rules mandating players stand for the anthem and enforce it. It would be short sided for the league to do so. 

 

Or change the order of pregame back to pre-9/11 days and have the anthem with players in the tunnel. 

27 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Time to go wreck your Ford, dumb**** MAGAts.

 

 

 

 

Oh man, I CAN’T WAIT for those YouTube videos!!!

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

There is white only police unions?

[Popeman38]

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

There is white only police unions?

No ****! And why are their “black police unions”? Shouldn’t it just be a “police union”?

[Llevron]

Long story short there is a lot of *shocker* racism in the police force and black officers unionized to protect their interests. 

 

Yall gotta stop pretending you dont know this **** already.