Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[grego]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

It’s been an anti-Kaep issue for many cause they never wanted to learn what the protests were about. This only makes it worse for people that don’t have interest in understanding the issue. 

 

For the record, I don't have much respect for Kaep cause he didn’t bother to vote. 

 

I agree with you about the voting thing, but the voting thing is tied into how some people see his protest. They don't see it as strictly police brutality against black men. They see it as a '**** America', bring down America and capitalism, bring on Marxism (and there is good reason to believe that).

 

There are reasonable criticisms of Kaep and some of these movements and actions that have nothing to do with racist motives. One can want to fix injustice, reform police and the cjs, without tearing down America or taking a stance that there is essentially a racial conspiracy. Does that make sense? I'm pooped so I'm not sure how lucid I'm coming across. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, grego said:

 

I agree with you about the voting thing, but the voting thing is tied into how some people see his protest. They don't see it as strictly police brutality against black men. They see it as a '**** America', bring down America and capitalism, bring on Marxism (and there is good reason to believe that).

 

There are reasonable criticisms of Kaep and some of these movements and actions that have nothing to do with racist motives. One can want to fix injustice, reform police and the cjs, without tearing down America or taking a stance that there is essentially a racial conspiracy. Does that make sense? I'm pooped so I'm not sure how lucid I'm coming across. 

 

It's also possible to think Kaep himself isn't doing anything special but the message he champions is significant and worthwhile. He's done plenty to show that he's not some Messiah or above criticism. Having said that, just because he hasn't been perfect doesn't mean he isn't on the right track to speak out against brutality against minorities. 

[Sticksboi05]

Also, this just needs to be said apparently..the American flag represents and belongs to EVERYONE, not just the military and veterans. Each branch of the military actually has their own exclusive flag (some below) that belongs solely to them for those so misinformed. Understanding this fact does not mean you don't realize and appreciate their service and willingness to make major sacrifices on our behalf.

 

A lot of people make America a great country - police, firefighters, medical personnel who save lives, teachers, the countless organizations that do community service everyday, social workers etc. etc. etc. Each of them is represented by the Stars and Stripes, but the MAGAs aren't mad that the protests are a slight on their work to make American lives better.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

A) I didn’t bring it up first

2) I feel confident he would have based on his brother, widow, and family remarks and Tillman’s own views.

 

I happen to agree with you but it's pretty speculative.

[Going Commando]

I hadn't really looked at the Army flag before.  It's got a Phrygian cap on it.  One of my favorite symbols because of its strangeness.  A lot of interesting stuff going on in that seal.

[Zazzaro703]

My problem with the whole Nike situation is this:

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88176&page=1

Three years ago, Nike chairman Phil Knight stood before the National Press Club and told the world he was so tired of labor-rights groups criticizing the athletic shoe company he founded that he was going to personally make sure conditions improved at Nike factories around the world.

Knight has fallen short of his promises — far short, in some cases, according to a 105-page report released by the Global Exchange.

"During the last three years, Nike has continued to treat the sweatshop issue as a public-relations inconvenience rather than as a serious human rights matter," said Leila Salazar, corporate accountability director for the San Francisco-based labor-rights organization.

 

I mean Nike really can't be serious with the activism campaign right? I'm sorry but this is the wrong company to act like they all of a sudden are some kind of moral authority. No one should give a running **** what they think about social issues. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Zazzaro703

[Fresh8686]

36 minutes ago, grego said:

 

I agree with you about the voting thing, but the voting thing is tied into how some people see his protest. They don't see it as strictly police brutality against black men. They see it as a '**** America', bring down America and capitalism, bring on Marxism (and there is good reason to believe that).

 

There are reasonable criticisms of Kaep and some of these movements and actions that have nothing to do with racist motives. One can want to fix injustice, reform police and the cjs, without tearing down America or taking a stance that there is essentially a racial conspiracy. Does that make sense? I'm pooped so I'm not sure how lucid I'm coming across. 

What is the good reason to believe that?

How can one reasonably come to the conclusion that this protest is about tearing down America?

What do you mean by a racial conspiracy? Who is taking on that stance?

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

My problem with the whole Nike situation is this:

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88176&page=1

Three years ago, Nike chairman Phil Knight stood before the National Press Club and told the world he was so tired of labor-rights groups criticizing the athletic shoe company he founded that he was going to personally make sure conditions improved at Nike factories around the world.

Knight has fallen short of his promises — far short, in some cases, according to a 105-page report released by the Global Exchange.

"During the last three years, Nike has continued to treat the sweatshop issue as a public-relations inconvenience rather than as a serious human rights matter," said Leila Salazar, corporate accountability director for the San Francisco-based labor-rights organization.

 

I mean Nike really can't be serious with the activism campaign right? I'm sorry but this is the wrong company to act like they all of a sudden are some kind of moral authority and no one should give a running **** what they think about social issues. 

 

Brought that up earlier, but let's not let anything like this get in the way.  

[Zazzaro703]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Brought that up earlier, but let's not let anything like this get in the way.  

My apologies, I just came in and posted but I obviously totally agree with you. What a disgusting joke.

[Chachie]

9 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

My problem with the whole Nike situation is this:

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88176&page=1

Three years ago, Nike chairman Phil Knight stood before the National Press Club and told the world he was so tired of labor-rights groups criticizing the athletic shoe company he founded that he was going to personally make sure conditions improved at Nike factories around the world.

Knight has fallen short of his promises — far short, in some cases, according to a 105-page report released by the Global Exchange.

"During the last three years, Nike has continued to treat the sweatshop issue as a public-relations inconvenience rather than as a serious human rights matter," said Leila Salazar, corporate accountability director for the San Francisco-based labor-rights organization.

 

I mean Nike really can't be serious with the activism campaign right? I'm sorry but this is the wrong company to act like they all of a sudden are some kind of moral authority and no one should give a running **** what they think about social issues. 

 

 

Excellent point and THIS is a good reason for anyone to avoid buying Nike's products. It's just a bit disappointing that the majority of voices against Nike that I've heard choose one american's right to protest as their reason for anger and boycott instead of a much more far-reaching issue. I guess they don't care about human lives, foreign or domestic.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Chachie

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

My apologies, I just came in and posted but I obviously totally agree with you. What a disgusting joke.

 

No, no offense taken.  It's just interesting what people will gloss over.

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Brought that up earlier, but let's not let anything like this get in the way.  

 

Just now, Zazzaro703 said:

My apologies, I just came in and posted but I obviously totally agree with you. What a disgusting joke.

 

Again, 95+% of all shoes sold in the United States are imported and 95+% of your wardrobe over the course of your entire life has been made in sweatshops.  You and Nike are utterly and completely united in your shared appreciation of cheap foreign labor.  And that’s why no one is really bothering to mention it...because to do so is to reveal yourself as a hypocrite who only seeks to muddy the waters and deflect the narrative.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

Again, 95+% of all shoes sold in the United States are imported and 95+% of your wardrobe over the course of your entire life has been made in sweatshops.  You and Nike are utterly and completely united in your shared appreciation of cheap foreign labor.  And that’s why no one is really bothering to mention it...because to do so is to reveal yourself as a hypocrite who only seeks to muddy the waters and deflect the narrative.  

 

I know.  But I'm not on the front lines being a social justice warrior.  

[Zazzaro703]

6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

Again, 95+% of all shoes sold in the United States are imported and 95+% of your wardrobe over the course of your entire life has been made in sweatshops.  You and Nike are utterly and completely united in your shared appreciation of cheap foreign labor.  And that’s why no one is really bothering to mention it...because to do so is to reveal yourself as a hypocrite who only seeks to muddy the waters and deflect the narrative.  

Sorry but I'm not the one trying to be a moral authority and making a national statement. I wouldn't in fact do that because you are correct unless I make all of my own clothes I'd be a hypocrite to try and make such a statement. My point was Nike should shut the **** up they are no better than the rest of us and in fact are much worse.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Zazzaro703

[grego]

14 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

What is the good reason to believe that?

How can one reasonably come to the conclusion that this protest is about tearing down America?

What do you mean by a racial conspiracy? Who is taking on that stance?

 

don't want to go off track too far. might have to pm you later.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Again, 95+% of all shoes sold in the United States are imported and 95+% of your wardrobe over the course of your entire life has been made in sweatshops.  You and Nike are utterly and completely united in your shared appreciation of cheap foreign labor.  And that’s why no one is really bothering to mention it...because to do so is to reveal yourself as a hypocrite who only seeks to muddy the waters and deflect the narrative.   

 

How dare you presume to know my wardrobe?  I am Amish and I hand-sew all of my clothes and am in fact dictating this message to a 12 year old Bangladeshi boy who is paid a generous wage of 40 cents a day to post my messages on this forum.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just now, Zazzaro703 said:

Sorry but I'm not the one trying to be a moral authority and making a national statement. I wouldn't in fact do that because you are correct unless I make all of my own clothes I'd be a hypocrite to try and make such a statement.

 

Youre a hypocrite because you absolutely have not spent even 5 minutes of your entire life concerned with South Asian child labor laws.  But miraculously, just this morning, it became a burning passion within you!!!

 

Give us a break, man.  Try harder, maybe.

[zoony]

I wonder if Nike will start making the piggy police socks that Kapernick likes

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

21 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Brought that up earlier, but let's not let anything like this get in the way.  

 

 

26 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

My problem with the whole Nike situation is this:

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88176&page=1

Three years ago, Nike chairman Phil Knight stood before the National Press Club and told the world he was so tired of labor-rights groups criticizing the athletic shoe company he founded that he was going to personally make sure conditions improved at Nike factories around the world.

Knight has fallen short of his promises — far short, in some cases, according to a 105-page report released by the Global Exchange.

"During the last three years, Nike has continued to treat the sweatshop issue as a public-relations inconvenience rather than as a serious human rights matter," said Leila Salazar, corporate accountability director for the San Francisco-based labor-rights organization.

 

I mean Nike really can't be serious with the activism campaign right? I'm sorry but this is the wrong company to act like they all of a sudden are some kind of moral authority. No one should give a running **** what they think about social issues. 

Nike is an evil corporation. Who denied that? This is a money grab by them using Kaepernick.

 

Who is denying that? And the people who are protesting Nike now are not pro labor and pro children workers rights. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

For the record, I wear New Balance, Ecco and Puma.  They’re stylish, hold up well and fit my big, flat feet nicely.  I have some Nike gym clothes that I like, tho.

[Zazzaro703]

My final thoughts on this and for clarity is this. As you can see in my profile picture, I cannot relate to this issue. I won't pretend to understand what people of color go through because it would be disingenuous and insulting. I'm not trying to deflect from the issue or muddy the waters. All I'm saying is just shut up Nike you aren't the right company to come out with this type of message. That's all.

[Llevron]

18 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

No, no offense taken.  It's just interesting what people will gloss over.

 

You make a good point. I dont see many people on here championing Nike because of this. Just that they like this move in particular. The obvious other side to this is that many people didnt give a **** about anything Nike did until they stood up for the black guy. Two ways to see everything playa. 

 

21 minutes ago, Chachie said:

Excellent point and THIS is a good reason for anyone to avoid buying Nike's products. It's just a bit disappointing that the majority of voices against Nike that I've heard choose one american's right to protest as their reason for anger and boycott instead of a much more far-reaching issue. I guess they don't care about human lives, foreign or domestic.

 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

For the record, I wear New Balance, Ecco and Puma.  They’re stylish, hold up well and fit my big, flat feet nicely.  I have some Nike gym clothes that I like, tho.

Nike shoes run too narrow.  I were Asics running shoes and footjoy golf.  I do like there golf shirts though.  So I dont plan on a local bonfire.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

 

Nike is an evil corporation. Who denied that? This is a money grab by them using Kaepernick.

 

Who is denying that? And the people who are protesting Nike now are not pro labor and pro children workers rights. 

 

I was a bit more interested in how Kap justifies it.  Obviously Nike is going for a dollar grab. 

 

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

For the record, I wear New Balance, Ecco and Puma.  They’re stylish, hold up well and fit my big, flat feet nicely.  I have some Nike gym clothes that I like, tho.

 

I figured you for a Joe Montana Sketchers type 

[zoony]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

For the record, I wear New Balance, Ecco and Puma.  They’re stylish, hold up well and fit my big, flat feet nicely.  I have some Nike gym clothes that I like, tho.

 

You should try Brooks.  I have a size 13 Wide, which often forces me to go to size 14.  But the Brooks runing shoe fits great