Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

Personally, standing for the pledge is one thing.  That makes some sense.  It's a pledge.

Standing for the anthem at sporting events I dont feel particularly strongly about.  I dont even really get why playing it at sporting events is a thing.  And why people are freaking out about Kap.  On the list of controversies in sports that got me upset, this wouldnt even rank.

Yep.  I'm still pissed about the collusion kerfuffle.  That affected my team.

What some player on another team does (unless it's against a player on my team) doesn't affect me in the slightest.  I don't like the wording he used in his first statement, but whatever.  If he were to be fined & accept such fine, then fine.  Whatever. 

I care about the Redskins, their team chemistry, how they play together, and Ws &Ls...Not if they stand up for the anthem. 

[KingGibbs]

6 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

 

Isn't he doing the opposite of political correctness?

I'm referring to the responses in general.

[CRobi21]

New ES flare up...

Edited August 29, 2016 by STBonecrusher21

[Burgold]

12 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Burg,

Perhaps it was an internal protest that when asked, he shared? It's not like Kap was or has been secretive about his views on Twitter. 

I guess. Intellectually, I think I'm just opposed to the idea of an internal protest lol. It's the way I'm wired. If you care enough to protest... be loud. If you need to protest do something that might fix the situation or raise awareness to the problem.

An internal protest seems like passive aggressive impotent crap to me.

(and again, I'm saying things in an overly extreme way... sigh)

[Predicto]

2 hours ago, Rskins06 said:

http://www.allenbwest.com/michele/hey-kaepernick-real-champion

Amazing!!!  Usain Bolt showed more respect (and he is NOT a citizen) to the anthem and flag as Colin Kaepernick. 

 

 

 

I prefer not to provide clicks to the website of a convicted war criminal like Allen West.  But that's just me.  

Basically, Kap did what he did which is his First Amendment right, and he's going to take heat for it, which is the First Amendment right of those who criticize him.   What he did isn't a big deal to me, but I understand why others feel differently.

If, however, you are claiming that someone actively hates America because they make a statement like this,  then you don't know very much about America.  

[justice98]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

I guess. Intellectually, I think I'm just opposed to the idea of an internal protest lol. It's the way I'm wired. If you care enough to protest... be loud. If you need to protest do something that might fix the situation or raise awareness to the problem.

An internal protest seems like passive aggressive impotent crap to me.

(and again, I'm saying things in an overly extreme way... sigh)

So you've never done something quietly just on principle?  You always announce it when you do something personally meaningful to you?

[The Evil Genius]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I guess. Intellectually, I think I'm just opposed to the idea of an internal protest lol. It's the way I'm wired. If you care enough to protest... be loud. If you need to protest do something that might fix the situation or raise awareness to the problem.

An internal protest seems like passive aggressive impotent crap to me.

(and again, I'm saying things in an overly extreme way... sigh)

 

Yeah. Freedom Fries FTW with no Heinz ketchup!

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

So you've never done something quietly just on principle?  You always announce it when you do something personally meaningful to you?

 

Burgold's like.."Honey..I hate the way you nag me so I'm deliberately leaving the seat up every time." 

Edited August 29, 2016 by The Evil Genius

[Burgold]

If I call it a protest. I tell people what I'm doing. Even when boycotting a product, I have let people know why I'm avoiding it.

For instance, when I stopped going to Exxon for a time... it wasn't because of the Valdez oil spill or even their ineffectiveness at clean up, but that it took them so long to even start and they invested (initially) way more into PR efforts than clean-up ones.

But I'm a loudmouth. You guys know that

Edited August 29, 2016 by Burgold

[Predicto]

11 minutes ago, justice98 said:

So you've never done something quietly just on principle?  You always announce it when you do something personally meaningful to you?

 

You can take a moral stance quietly, but it's not really a "protest" if you aren't drawing attention to the problem.   Just two different things.

[KingGibbs]

4 hours ago, Dan T. said:

Some might say that those who sacrificed their lives did so in part so that everyone could express their views freely. As Kaepernick did.  Not that you have to agree with it...

Well his timing is suspect in my opinion. About to lose his job. He's had ample opportunity to do this. 

Lives were sacrificed so he could get paid handsomely to play a sport. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcsluggo]

34 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

I'm referring to the responses in general.

 

please explain.

[Popeman38]

Well, this just got weird. 

Kap is wearing a Fidel Castro shirt.  Someone who never allowed dissent. 

[Mr. Sinister]

24 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

Well his timing is suspect in my opinion. About to lose his job. He's had ample opportunity to do this.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really. It would be far easier if he was an elite qb who had guaranteed job security. Now that he is NFL radioactive, he may never play again, if they decide for whatever reason to cut him

 

Quote

Lives were sacrificed so he could get paid handsomely to play a sport

They were also sacrificed so he could do exactly what he did

Edited August 29, 2016 by Mr. Sinister

[KingGibbs]

11 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

[KingGibbs]

Like to see how much money he's donated to oppressed neighborhood's. That would be more impressive than disgracing (IMO) the flag. It's unpatriotic (again IMO) and as many issues as this country has? It pales in comparison with most of the world. That'seems to be lost here. 

Just another day in America where divided we stand. 

[The Evil Genius]

Yeah, I'm guessing Pope that Kap has no idea on Fidel Castro and just liked the shirt. Really bad choice of shirts in lieu of everything else... 

Edited August 29, 2016 by The Evil Genius

[skinsmarydu]

35 minutes ago, Burgold said:

If I call it a protest. I tell people what I'm doing. Even when boycotting a product, I have let people know why I'm avoiding it.

For instance, when I stopped going to Exxon for a time... it wasn't because of the Valdez oil spill or even their ineffectiveness at clean up, but that it took them so long to even start and they invested (initially) way more into PR efforts than clean-up ones.

But I'm a loudmouth. You guys know that

I almost ran out of gas on Christmas Day driving back from NoVa to ATL because I wouldn't spend money in an Exxon...and it was really hard to find a station with a person in it to take my cash money on Christmas/Holiday Day Day. (pc version of me)  To this day, THEY GET NOTHING.   

But I'm a patriot, and I won't "protest my country".   All politics are local, Mr. Kap...get to it over there in NoCal. 

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

8 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

Like to see how much money he's donated to oppressed neighborhood's. That would be more impressive than disgracing (IMO) the flag. It's unpatriotic (again IMO) and as many issues as this country has? It pales in comparison with most of the world. That'seems to be lost here.

Do you think donating money to a couple oppressed neighborhoods has a bigger impact than setting off a national conversation, one where everyone will either be inspired to take action, or offense?

 

And I agree, this country is better than most. A lot of things are bezter than other things. That doesn't mean that things are perfect, and that we dont look for ways to improve it.

 

And division is a matter of pov. Many people dont see and live in the same America you do, and see division everytime they step out the door. 

[Popeman38]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Yeah, I'm guessing Pope that Kap has no idea on Fidel Castro and just liked the shirt. Really bad choice of shirts in lieu of everything else... 

I have no doubt. Which is why if you decide to make a stand on something, you need to be factually informed and socially aware. I think today quite a few making stands are socially informed and factually aware.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Popeman38

[Spaceman Spiff]

I can't believe that Fidel shirt is a coincidence.  Pretty sure he thinks he's making some statement or something, just like the 90's throwback X hat isn't a coincidence.

[twa]

29 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I can't believe that Fidel shirt is a coincidence.  Pretty sure he thinks he's making some statement or something, just like the 90's throwback X hat isn't a coincidence.

he is a revolutionary activist.....millionaire 

and want's out of SF bad. 

[codeorama]

Some of you know, I'm a high school teacher. I go through this on the first day of school each year. I tell the students that I don't care if they say the pledge, I don't care if they put their hand in their heart, but they will stand. 

 

This is opens the door for questions. Someone will ask why and say that I can t force them. I explain that whether they realize it or not, they have a lot of freedom that other people in the world don't have. They may not appreciate it now, but one day they will. There are kids in China making my iPhone 8 because they couldn't behave or be respectful. While they have the right to sit, I have the right to not give them any breaks due to "bad karma". I explain how there are so many ways I can make their daily lives difficult by not looking past some things here and there. I explain that I work on the karma system. Standing for the pledge is expected because even though you may not like everything about our country, you can show that small amount of respect. 

 

Personally, If it's really that bad Kaepernick, go somewhere else and let's see if you have the opportunity to make the money that you do.  

 

 

 

[Springfield]

Imo, the only conversation that was sparked here was whether or not it's cool to sit during the national anthem as a protest.

[Burgold]

11 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Imo, the only conversation that was sparked here was whether or not it's cool to sit during the national anthem as a protest.

and to me, that's a bit of a problem. I do think the issue he says he wants to protest are worth discussing and working on, but I don't know whether he's furthered that conversation through his actions or sidetracked them.

I largely agree with Code's position on this. I think it's one of the issues where I lean more to the right. I do think that respect for symbols is healthy. I think if you are going to play against that respect you need to be specific and clear. Kap's protest wasn't. His thoughts afterwards might change that if he continues to try to be a change agent or advocate, but I don't think it has yet.

[RonArtest15]

His whole transcript is worth reading.

So many people see the flag as a symbol of the military. How do you view it and what do you say to those people?

CK: I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they have fought for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right.

Link