ESPN: Colin Kaepernick protests anthem due to treatment of minorities

[Ray-Ban Dan]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Don't "most" us.  Do some research please, because that's even more insulting to suggest that "most" simply weren't following directions, and that's why unarmed blacks are five times more likely to get shot and killed by police then whites. And this thread should not be about "what an idiot Kaepernick is".  It should be about "why would he do something like this", otherwise, what's the point of protesting?

 

This should be moved to tailgate, because even he said this was bigger then football.  And that's not to say I agree with him sitting during the national anthem, I'm just acknowledging he's taking a helluva risk concerning his livelihood making a decision like this, so based on what I've read (the little information that's out there), I'd lean more to he's aware, does care, and trying versus he has no idea what he's talking about and maybe just wants the attention.

I was referring to most of the high profile cases. It's not a stretch to say that in many of those cases, the shootings were lawful. And I don't put much stock in the numbers you listed. You're posting numbers to support your theory, but they don't say whether or not the shootings were actually 'justified' or not. 

I do agree that this should be a Tailgate topic. Then again, I'm not sure it's even worth debating any further. You (not you) aren't changing anyone's opinions on these things.

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

He has expressed his views (albeit on social media.)  Not sure why protesting w/ BLM or giving an interview w/ CNN is the end all/be all for what he can do to be an advocate for minority rights. 

No one was checking for his tweets, posts on IG, etc.  He's a fringe NFL starter who lost his job to Blaine Gabbert.  Not standing for the anthem is a bigger deal AND it has just brought more attention to an issue that he believes in.  He's well within his rights to do this and with racial tensions high in this country, he's got a lot of support. 

Again, not saying he doesn't have the right.  He has the right and we have the right to speak our feelings on what he did.  And I didn't say he HAD to do one of those two things.  I was using them as an example of things he could do but doesn't because theyou require effort.  And those things would bring light to the actual issues.  

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I was referring to most of the high profile cases. It's not a stretch to say that in many of those cases, the shootings were lawful. And I don't put much stock in the numbers you listed. You're posting numbers to support your theory, but they don't say whether or not the shootings were actually 'justified' or not. 

I do agree that this should be a Tailgate topic. Then again, I'm not sure it's even worth debating any further. You (not you) aren't changing anyone's opinions on these things.

 

Based on way DOJ is starting to become more involved with these matters, I disagree that protests and discussions like this aren't changing anyone's opinion on the matter.  

 

DoJ has found at least two of the police departments (Ferguson and Baltimore) with racial bias and already forced a overhaul in the Ferguson police department.  There have been articles going through non-mainstream cases to see where it makes sense or doesn't make sense fire on someone that's unarmed, which we as a country have to get better at.  We're seeing a shift away from the prison industrial complex with the push to limit mandatory sentencing for non-violent drug offense and closing privately run federal prisons.  

 

I hate that it feels like there are "sides" on these issues where people can lock in and disagree on the matter no matter what, but it doesn't mean others should just stop talking about it.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

13 hours ago, wolfsire said:

maybe dude needs to go spend 5 years or so in Africa. Find out what true freedom is about. Our police officers want to go home to their families every night and be there for them. I'm not a public official, but if I was and it came down to me and a violent criminal that is resisting arrest? I'm going home to see my family.

 

12 hours ago, wolfsire said:

The officer's life means less? Should he allow the law-breaker to beat him down? Take his gun? His Badge? You have to realize that there is no perfect way to deal with violent crime. Every situation is different and in the end, we are human. If a guy makes the choice to hold a little store owner at gun-point and rob him, then he has made the choice to break laws that keep our neighborhoods safe. He held a gun in threat towards another human being. Maybe the little store owner had his life flash before him. His wife. His children. Maybe grandchildren. So if you don't want the law to break bad on your ass, consider other people.

 

[DC9]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

And this thread should not be about "what an idiot Kaepernick is".  It should be about "why would he do something like this", otherwise, what's the point of protesting?

 

And yet it's not.  Which is why it was dumb.  I support the first amendment and I'm not mad at him for asserting that right, but this didn't further his cause at all. 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Based on way DOJ is starting to become more involved with these matters, I disagree that protests and discussions like this aren't changing anyone's opinion on the matter.  

DoJ has found at least two of the police departments (Ferguson and Baltimore) with racial bias and already forced a overhaul in the Ferguson police department.  There have been articles going through non-mainstream cases to see where it makes sense or doesn't make sense fire on someone that's unarmed, which we as a country have to get better at.  We're seeing a shift away from the prison industrial complex with the push to limit mandatory sentencing for non-violent drug offense and closing privately run federal prisons. 

 

DoJ found nothing wrong with either case.  Which was their responsibility in the investigation.  Was that to say something wasn't there?  Not necessarily, but the United States Department of Justice didn't find it.

So again, "institutional racism" becomes the cop out.

[Aireskoi]

This will teach him. 

What can I burn to protest this action?  I'm definitely not going to stand if I see anyone do this, unless they play the national anthem.

 

San Francisco fans are burning jerseys to protest Colin Kaepernick’s refusal to stand for the national anthem.

One fan even played The Star-Spangled Banner as he set light to the Number 7 shirt, watching with his hand on his chest as it was reduced to ash.

Another, who uploaded a video to Instagram under the handle Nate3914, called the $19million-per-year athlete an ‘ignorant son of a b****.’

http://nyc.epeak.in/frame/?url=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbGFuLmNvbS8yMDE2LzA4LzI4L25mbC1mYW5zLWJ1cm4tamVyc2V5cy10by1wcm90ZXN0LWthZXBlcm5pY2sv&id=2746301

[Renegade7]

54 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

And yet it's not.  Which is why it was dumb.  I support the first amendment and I'm not mad at him for asserting that right, but this didn't further his cause at all. 

 

DoJ found nothing wrong with either case.  Which was their responsibility in the investigation.  Was that to say something wasn't there?  Not necessarily, but the United States Department of Justice didn't find it.

So again, "institutional racism" becomes the cop out.

 

We're talking about two different thing here (the police departments vs the individual cases) in regards to DoJ involvment in Ferguson and Baltimore.  I'm still not sure how I feel about the ruling concerning putting a guy belly first in the back of a police van or a local government instructing their police force to target blacks for revenue generating, but we're losing the forest for the trees, as there's a web of reasoning here that cannot be limited to one primary cause.  Hate to say it, but I couldn't get much further in that video you posted when the guy was saying a huge reason what's going on in the black community is a lack of values from young individuals.  It's just not that simple, man.  This race relations thing is almost like a moving target instead of an actual discussion.

[No Excuses]

Whenever an athlete does something like this, it truly reveals what a bunch of grown man babies sports fans are. 

I'm not surprised at the flack he's receiving. Every single time prominent minorities, regardless of their profession, take a stand on social issues, they are shouted down. Pretty much all the token arguments against them have been made here already:

1. Enjoy your privilege, aren't you doing great?

2. You're rich and not from the hood, stfu

3. Obama got elected!! (A new one)

3. You disrespect the flag!!!

At NASCAR races the confederate flag flies proudly. No one gives a flying ****. Even though on the totem pole of all things disrespectful to the country, the flag of slavery loving traitors is easily #1. But yeah this a story.

 

[DC9]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We're talking about two different thing here (the police departments vs the individual cases) in regards to DoJ involvment in Ferguson and Baltimore.  I'm still not sure how I feel about the ruling concerning putting a guy belly first in the back of a police van or a local government instructing their police force to target blacks for revenue generating, but we're losing the forest for the trees, as there's a web of reasoning here that cannot be limited to one primary cause.  Hate to say it, but I couldn't get much further in that video you posted when the guy was saying a huge reason what's going on in the black community is a lack of values from young individuals.  It's just not that simple, man.  This race relations thing is almost like a moving target instead of an actual discussion.

 

The DoJ has been sent to investigate the majority of these shootings and I think outside of South Carolina and Louisiana the police were cleared of wrong doing.  That's an Eric Holder led investigation.

And I agree whole-heartedly that most of what's going on right now is counter-productive to any progress.  I basically said the inverse of what you said about Kaep.  He did this to bring attention to an issue, but all anyone wants to talk about is if it's disrespectful or not.  It was a fail. 

As for the video, it's tough to get to the root of problems because to come to a compromise is that both sides need to make concessions and maybe need to get a little uncomfortable.  Everything Shapiro said was a fact.  It wasn't an opinion.  Just like there are racist cops. 

I think the first concessions that need to be made is that it's utopian to believe racism will never exist (in other words, there will always be evil, it doesn't mean it's systematic evil); and cops have a job to do and need to be respected.  From the other side, a lot of cops treat black folks differently and they are human beings and deserve the same courtesies.  And if we're being totally honest with ourselves, I think everyone believes that now to begin anyways. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 hours ago, justice98 said:

All these comments about how much money he makes so he shouldnt complain, are the most absurd things I've heard on this board in a while.  There's a black president, you make a lot of money, so you shouldnt protest racism?  What kinda thinking is that?  

Not liking his specific form of protest is one thing, but saying he's doing well for himself so he should keep quiet or racism isnt that prevalent is asinine.  

 

 

Because it's a ****ing dumb form of protest.  It doesn't DO anything.  Sure, it gets some people talking and riles people up but it doesn't help anyone.  Find ONE person that's now better off because Colin Genius Kaepernick has decided to sit down during the National Anthem before a football game.  

How about donating some of his precious offseason time to doing something?  How about donating some of that salary to a good cause that he sees fit?  It's deeper than not being able to protest racism, it's just how he's going about it that's lazy, unoriginal, uninspiring and ineffective.  

Ali sacrificed something.  Ali and Kaepernick is like an apples and Texas Rib Eye steak comparison here, it's not even a fruit-to-fruit comparison.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

17 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Your views on the anthem being played are stupid.  Why not do it.

 

As to Kap's right to do it, you're right.  And I spend every day defending that right.  I also defend the right of people to talk crap about him for doing it.  Two way street.

My views are sound. There is absolutely no reason to do it. We aren't playing another country. These DOMESTIC SPORTS are not getting direct money from the US government. It's overly faux patriotism that our country really needs to look at itself and stop.

We don't need to "honor" America before each domestic sporting event because it leads to people complaining about nonimportant topics like taking a seat while the anthem is played. 

[justice98]

55 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Because it's a ****ing dumb form of protest.  It doesn't DO anything.  Sure, it gets some people talking and riles people up but it doesn't help anyone.  Find ONE person that's now better off because Colin Genius Kaepernick has decided to sit down during the National Anthem before a football game.  

How about donating some of his precious offseason time to doing something?  How about donating some of that salary to a good cause that he sees fit?  It's deeper than not being able to protest racism, it's just how he's going about it that's lazy, unoriginal, uninspiring and ineffective.  

Ali sacrificed something.  Ali and Kaepernick is like an apples and Texas Rib Eye steak comparison here, it's not even a fruit-to-fruit comparison.  

Symbolic protest is still worth doing.  Do we need to go through examples of symbolic protests that didn't "DO" anything, but were otherwise meaningful and important?

[Bozo the kKklown]

17 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Don't think anyone is saying that.  But maybe he could actually lift a finger.  Instead he.... sat.   

This is nonsense.

 

in one post you said you defend his right to protest, and now in another you want him to do something when he just did something.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, justice98 said:

Symbolic protest is still worth doing.  Do we need to go through examples of symbolic protests that didn't "DO" anyyhing?  

No, we can just talk about this one as a stand alone example and monitor to see what change the great Kaepernick can create.  Let's see where we are in week 8.

[Bozo the kKklown]

17 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

People respect Ali because he put his money where his mouth was and actually had to sit out of his chosen profession for a while.  Then he came back and dominated.

 

Let's be honest here, people hated Ali. Majority of Americans did back then, hence why they were comforted by Orenthal James Simpson's emergence.

16 hours ago, wolfsire said:

maybe dude needs to go spend 5 years or so in Africa. Find out what true freedom is about. Our police officers want to go home to their families every night and be there for them. I'm not a public official, but if I was and it came down to me and a violent criminal that is resisting arrest? I'm going home to see my family.

Maybe you should not show your ignorance making posts like this.

[justice98]

4 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Sometimes I wonder if some of these guys even know what they're really protesting. I mean, are they even aware that the majority of deaths at the hands of cops, are to white males?

It's about proportionality, not gross numbers.  

Quote

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

45 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Whenever an athlete does something like this, it truly reveals what a bunch of grown man babies sports fans are. 

I'm not surprised at the flack he's receiving. Every single time prominent minorities, regardless of their profession, take a stand on social issues, they are shouted down. Pretty much all the token arguments against them have been made here already:

1. Enjoy your privilege, aren't you doing great?

2. You're rich and not from the hood, stfu

3. Obama got elected!! (A new one)

3. You disrespect the flag!!!

At NASCAR races the confederate flag flies proudly. No one gives a flying ****. Even though on the totem pole of all things disrespectful to the country, the flag of slavery loving traitors is easily #1. But yeah this a story.

 

/thread

 

Plus pc police, its ma constitutional rights, etc. Always been interesting which of those rights people choose to champion

 

And yeah, people having no problem with the Confederate flag being thrown lol. Oh the delicious irony

[DC9]

5 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Let's be honest here, people hated Ali. Majority of Americans did back then, hence why they were comforted by Orenthal James Simpson's emergence.

 

Can you not respect someone that you hate?

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Let's be honest here, people hated Ali. Majority of Americans did back then, hence why they were comforted by Orenthal James Simpson's emergence.

Indeed, people think the beloved Ali we saw before he passed was the same beloved guy back during the time.  

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

No, we can just talk about this one as a stand alone example and monitor to see what change the great Kaepernick can create.  Let's see where we are in week 8.

So he's singlehandedly gonna change something in our society before the season's out.  That's the measuring stick.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Indeed, people think the beloved Ali we saw before he passed was the same beloved guy back during the time.  

So he's singlehandedly gonna change something in our society before the season's out.  That's the measuring stick.

 

Fine, what's your measuring stick?  You decide.

I was trying to imply that even if he's still doing it by Week 8.  

Even so, remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?  Huge controversy doing the same thing back in the 90s.  Was even suspended a game.  Don't think it did anyone any good.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I also think a lot of the outrage of black males dying in this country is misdirected. Hundreds of black males continue to die at the hands of other black males each year (specifically in Chicago), yet it's almost never talked about.

Love this hot take.

 

Its talked about a lot in the communities the people who have to see this horror reside in. It's talked about a lot in different minority community. The only time people in the mainstream ever want to talk about it is when they get mad at minorities people protesting what the oppression this country has done to them, and point out "black on black violence" as the end all answer.

 

What makes that point even funnier is racial oppression is why we see crime infested minority enclaves take shape but I know a few of you don't read scholarly works on race because you don't have too.

[RonArtest15]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Indeed, people think the beloved Ali we saw before he passed was the same beloved guy back during the time.  

So he's singlehandedly gonna change something in our society before the season's out.  That's the measuring stick.

Made me think of this quote:

Dan Le Batard Show Verified account ‏@LeBatardShow

Jim Brown says Ali didn't go from America's most hated athlete to its most beloved until he lost the ability to speak.

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

Can you not respect someone that you hate?

Why hate someone you respect? 

It does not change he fact that Ali was hated for his views by most Americans at that time, echoing a lot of the same tripe that's been written in this thread.

[DC9]

Just now, BenningRoadSkin said:

Why hate someone you respect? 

It does not change he fact that Ali was hated for his views by most Americans at that time, echoing a lot of the same tripe that's been written in this thread.

 

Well, if you have the ability to compartmentalize then you could look at something that you dislike and continue to dislike it, but appreciate and respect why it's being done.

And if you compare Ali's sacrifice to Kaep not standing up for the Star Spangled Banner than there is no need to reply to this.

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

And if you compare Ali's sacrifice to Kaep not standing up for the Star Spangled Banner than there is no need to reply to this.

Good thing I never said this.