ESPN: Colin Kaepernick protests anthem due to treatment of minorities

[DC9]

7 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

It does not change he fact that Ali was hated for his views by most Americans at that time, echoing a lot of the same tripe that's been written in this thread.

 

Except you did... right here.

[TheGreatBuzz]

30 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This is nonsense.

 

in one post you said you defend his right to protest, and now in another you want him to do something when he just did something.

I defend the rights of people to do lots of dumb, pointless things.  This was one.  If he wants to change American culture.  He should actually DO something, not refuse to stand like a child.  Is that clear to you now what I'm saying or do I need to draw it out with crayons?

[Bozo the kKklown]

14 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

Except you did... right here.

Nope

 

I compared the reactions by people to their actions.

[justice98]

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fine, what's your measuring stick?  You decide.

I was trying to imply that even if he's still doing it by Week 8.  

Even so, remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?  Huge controversy doing the same thing back in the 90s.  Was even suspended a game.  Don't think it did anyone any good.  

There doesn't need to be one.  He's not a one man wrecking crew for social change.  If he has principles he believes in, so be it.  

But really, the media and public made this a story.  It was a personal thing he was doing, and everyone else has turned him into a social crusader whose actions have to have tangible results.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I defend the rights of people to do lots of dumb, pointless things.  This was one.  If he wants to change American culture.  He should actually DO something, not refuse to stand like a child.  Is that clear to you now what I'm saying or do I need to draw it out with crayons?

He has got you talking about something you don't want to talk about, so his protest did something.

 

he did something. Outside of beating '88 Ultimate Warrior in a steel cage match there is probably not much he could have done that would be sufficient for you.

[DC9]

11 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Nope

 

I compared the reactions by people to their actions.

 

Ali and Kaepernick?

You can be as semantical as you'd like, dude.

They aren't close.  And there is a clear line of distinction.  Well, clear to most of us.

10 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

He has got you talking about something you don't want to talk about, so his protest did something.

 

Yeah, we're sure having the exact same conversation again, aren't we.  Some real progress being made.

We obviously have different definitions of "accomplish."

 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

My views are sound. There is absolutely no reason to do it. We aren't playing another country. These DOMESTIC SPORTS are not getting direct money from the US government. It's overly faux patriotism that our country really needs to look at itself and stop.

We don't need to "honor" America before each domestic sporting event because it leads to people complaining about nonimportant topics like taking a seat while the anthem is played. 

Love this hot take. Lets just get rid of one of the great traditions of our country because some idiot, nobody athlete thinks he's doing something noble by not standing for our national anthem. Unbelievable.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

It's about proportionality, not gross numbers.  

 

I already shot this down about a page ago. Those numbers don't show if the shootings were justified or not. It's pointless to post that.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, DC9 said:

 

The DoJ has been sent to investigate the majority of these shootings and I think outside of South Carolina and Louisiana the police were cleared of wrong doing.  That's an Eric Holder led investigation.

And I agree whole-heartedly that most of what's going on right now is counter-productive to any progress.  I basically said the inverse of what you said about Kaep.  He did this to bring attention to an issue, but all anyone wants to talk about is if it's disrespectful or not.  It was a fail. 

As for the video, it's tough to get to the root of problems because to come to a compromise is that both sides need to make concessions and maybe need to get a little uncomfortable.  Everything Shapiro said was a fact.  It wasn't an opinion.  Just like there are racist cops. 

I think the first concessions that need to be made is that it's utopian to believe racism will never exist (in other words, there will always be evil, it doesn't mean it's systematic evil); and cops have a job to do and need to be respected.  From the other side, a lot of cops treat black folks differently and they are human beings and deserve the same courtesies.  And if we're being totally honest with ourselves, I think everyone believes that now to begin anyways. 

I can't take everything he's saying as fact, and huge reason why is because of what I lived through and my shared experiences with other people (that's a despicable brush to stroke with). For me, it wasn't a lack of values, it was a lack of direction and reassurance of my place in society.  I take a lot of responsibility for how I reacted to that, despite the circumstances I went through, and come to see how other people's experiences can directly effect their direction and belief of where they belong in society as well.  

Son of a teacher and first hand experience with DC Public Schools, I've seen how the education system, particularly in the inner city, is failing kids, leading them to lose faith in themselves and those around them very early on.  It's not fair to say "where are the parents", when we're just now coming to grips with the effects certain policies and soci-economic circumstances that have lead to a lack of two parent black households in black communities, especially the inner cities.  This also doesn't take into account the number of individuals that are subject to the influence of others that have already given up before them and perpatiating a level of violence that make education and escaping that environment incredibly difficult to focus on.

As long as we're different, in someway we're going to see each other as being different.  But we're talking about very different environments in a very large country, not just the inner city or the suburbs.  I definitely agree that we're making progress in terms of the dialog between Black America and police departments, but its still too difficult to indict police officers (we need to work on that).  We are not going to be able to get to the point of focusing on the have vs have-not solutions regardless of race yet.  Not yet.  The after-effects of our racial history are all over the place and you still have people in power that aren't that far off from the way people like Trump are looking at things (see the Governor of Maine for crying out loud, holy ****).  

Saying young Black Americans don't have values doesn't help at all, we've heard that said to us before in a million different ways, and its completely understated how much fuel that actually is to the fire.

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I already shot this down about a page ago. Those numbers don't show if the shootings were justified or not. It's pointless to post that.

 

I respectfully disagree with you.  

 

We really have to ask ourselves 1.) Why are we constantly shooting people that are unarmed (this is beyond race, and more in line with protocol), and 2.) Why are unarmed blacks 5 times as likely as whites to be shot? (A primary pillar of BLM).  I have to step out, but have seen articles questioning both sides of this, because its a legitament issue that we can't just keep sweeping under the rug.

 

Regardless of where people stand on this issue, we can't keep running from it.

[DC9]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Son of a teacher and first hand experience with DC Public Schools, I've seen how the education system, particularly in the inner city, is failing kids, leading them to lose faith in themselves and those around them very early on.  It's not fair to say "where are the parents", when we're just now coming to grips with the effects certain policies and soci-economic circumstances that have lead to a lack of two parent black households in black communities, especially the inner cities.  This also doesn't take into account the number of individuals that are subject to the influence of others that have already given up before them and perpatiating a level of violence that make education and escaping that environment incredibly difficult to focus on.

As long as we're different, in someway we're going to see each other as being different.  But we're talking about very different environments in a very large country, not just the inner city or the suburbs.  I definitely agree that we're making progress in terms of the dialog between Black America and police departments, but its still too difficult to indict police officers (we need to work on that).  We are not going to be able to get to the point of focusing on the have vs have-not solutions regardless of race yet.  Not yet.  The after-effects of our racial history are all over the place and you still have people in power that aren't that far off from the way people like Trump are looking at things (see the Governor of Maine for crying out loud, holy ****).  

Saying young Black Americans don't have values doesn't help at all, we've heard that said to us before in a million different ways, and its completely understated how much fuel that actually is to the fire.

 

"Culture" takes all of those into account, which is why he said it the way he said it.  His delivery was certainly a bit aggressive, but bang on.

I've been on both sides of this debate depending on the particular incident we're talking about.  And at the end of the day it simply boils down to compliance and respect for one another.

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

44 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

Ali and Kaepernick?

You can be as semantical as you'd like, dude.

They aren't close.  And there is a clear line of distinction.  Well, clear to most of us.

 

There are no semantics here and I'm bothered that you are intentionally misconstruing my statement. I didn't compare the actions, I compared the reactions. I was clear. I don't like that you are being obtuse about this.

30 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Love this hot take. Lets just get rid of one of the great traditions of our country because some idiot, nobody athlete thinks he's doing something noble by not standing for our national anthem. Unbelievable.

It's not a great tradition and my view on this was done well before anyone heard of Kapernick. There is no reason for our sporting events to have the national anthem played unles it's for matches against other countries.

[DC9]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Let's be honest here, people hated Ali. Majority of Americans did back then, hence why they were comforted by Orenthal James Simpson's emergence.

 

I'm being obtuse and you're without semantics...

Yet this is how you slid into this conversation.

I am glad you came back after the ban, though.  It shows heart.

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

It's not a great tradition and my view on this was done well before anyone heard of Kapernick. There is no reason for our sporting events to have the national anthem played unles it's for matches against other countries.

 

Speaking of obtuse, do you know when and why the Star Spangled Banner started being played before each game?

[Taylor703]

19 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

It's interesting how angry some folks get when a minority uses their voice. Always shut up and be happy. Deep thinkers.

The **** are you talking about? People get angry when morons speak up, that's about it. Everyone gets angry when Trump says anything, Palin likewise.

And for the record, **** Colin Kaepernick. He's the same clown walking around with another teams gear on and didn't see anything wrong with it. He's an idiot. 

[Mr. Sinister]

14 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

The **** are you talking about? People get angry when morons speak up, that's about it. 

No. Thats not about it, never has been about it will never be about it, and its really all that hard to undetstand why. It has applied to minorities and arhletes, in this case both

 

Why you would bring up the Dolphins hat is also puzzling, to say the least.

[nonniey]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:52 AM, skinsfan_1215 said:

Yeah man I can't believe nobody told these black dudes that racism ended when we elected Obama. They gotta get with the times. Sad!

Racism exists in this country but the United States is one of the least, if not the least racist, of any nation on Earth. Kaepernick took a stupid stand.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I respectfully disagree with you.  

 

We really have to ask ourselves 1.) Why are we constantly shooting people that are unarmed (this is beyond race, and more in line with protocol), and 2.) Why are unarmed blacks 5 times as likely as whites to be shot? (A primary pillar of BLM).  I have to step out, but have seen articles questioning both sides of this, because its a legitament issue that we can't just keep sweeping under the rug.

 

Regardless of where people stand on this issue, we can't keep running from it.

As far as 1). Well, I rarely hear stories of cops shooting people that don't bring it on themselves. And that answers 2) as well. 

Bottom line, if you follow instructions, and don't try and attack or kill a cop, you're not likely to be shot. You can't cry foul when you are shot, if you brought it on yourself. And we have learned that these things happened in many of these cases.

And you keep going with that 5 times more likely to be shot thing. Again, that proves NOTHING if you can't tell me if those shootings weren't justified or not (that kind of matters, ya know).

[DC9]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Why you would bring up the Dolphins hat is also puzzling, to say the least.

 

He said Kaep was a moron.  He brought up the Dolphins hat to establish that there is a pattern to prove this.

How is this puzzling at all?

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

He has got you talking about something you don't want to talk about, so his protest did something.

 

he did something. Outside of beating '88 Ultimate Warrior in a steel cage match there is probably not much he could have done that would be sufficient for you.

Talking about something I don't want to talk about??  What's that, Colin Kapernak?  You're right I don't like talking about him.  As for race relations, we were already talking about it in the tailgate.

[CommanderDOOM]

On 8/27/2016 at 5:09 PM, zoony said:

 

Nobody likes an ungrateful child who lashes out.  There isnt much worse, really

 

Worse is one who turns a blind eye to injustice. Especially your own people....thinking "I've made it so it doesn't effect me".

And to say the U.S.A is one of the least racist countries in the world has to be the strangest thing I've heard in  a long time.

[Mr. Sinister]

13 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

He said Kaep was a moron.  He brought up the Dolphins hat to establish that there is a pattern to prove this.

How is this puzzling at all?

Because its discussing a serious issue.. one with varying opinions and layers, and one persons already established perception of the guy, because he wore a different teams hat (call the Avengers), then using it as reason why people disparage others for speaking up , this time using it in context of a far more serious issue, one that, while I dont necessarily agree with the action, Kaep's well within bounds to feel a certain way about it and willingly put himself out there 

 

Thats what I find puzzling.

[DC9]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

Because its discussing a serious issue.. one with varying opinions and layers, and one persons already established perception of the guy, because he wore a different teams hat (call the Avengers), then using it as reason why people disparage others for speaking up , this time using it in context of a far more serious issue, one that, while I dont necessarily agree with the action, Kaep's well within bounds to feel a certain way about it and willingly put himself out there 

 

Thats what I find puzzling.

 

An idiot didn't stand up for the Star Spangled Banner.  The same idiot wore another team's hat a couple of years ago.  Makes sense to me that he isn't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer.  That's not something that really calls for deep thought to figure it out.

He's not using it to disparage anyone from speaking up.  He's using it to show that Kaep has a pattern of dumbassety.

What makes you think he had a preconceived notion about Kaep?

[Taylor703]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

No. Thats not about it, never has been about it will never be about it, and its really all that hard to undetstand why. It has applied to minorities and arhletes, in this case both

 

Why you would bring up the Dolphins hat is also puzzling, to say the least.

I'm not saying Kaep isn't allowed to protest. See that's one of the luxuries that the people who died fighting for this country and the flag he's protesting afforded him the opportunity to do. If he wants to sit during the pledge or the anthem or whatever else, go for it.

I think Kaep is a clown. The Dolphins hat isn't puzzling at all. If a business is paying you millions upon millions of dollars to represent them you don't go out and wear a rival businesses gear. It proved just how much this guy doesn't get it. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I'm surprised the NFL isn't taking action in this.  He was in uniform on the sidelines at the beginning of an NFL game.  He was AT WORK.  Imagine if the greeter at Walmart used his position to make a political statement when you walked in the store.  Walmart would probably take issue with it.  

 

Make statements on your own time, not company time.  At least I'm surprised NFL didn't say that to him.

[Taylor703]

11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm surprised the NFL isn't taking action in this.  He was in uniform on the sidelines at the beginning of an NFL game.  He was AT WORK.  Imagine if the greeter at Walmart used his position to make a political statement when you walked in the store.  Walmart would probably take issue with it.  

 

Make statements on your own time, not company time.  At least I'm surprised NFL didn't say that to him.

I disagree. Kaep didn't do anything near as bad as Isaiah Crowell and the league didn't punish him. They shouldn't try to set some silly precedent by punishing Kaep.