PokerPacker Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 This is getting at the heart of the problem. How do you change the minds of these radical Muslims? How do you prevent them from recruiting others? How do you reach the recruits before ISIS does? These, "lone wolf," attacks are just going to keep happening. I think all we can do is try to kill those doing the radicalizing. Cut the head off the snake. Seems we've been cutting their heads off for the last 15 years. Perhaps what you refer to as a snake is more of a hydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Sacase you forgot the 240 or so killed in Irak not so long ago. About a dozen of kids amongst the victims and lots of tourists as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Seems we've been cutting their heads off for the last 15 years. Perhaps what you refer to as a snake is more of a hydra. Good metaphor. There are always going to be various cells. All you can hope to do is cut off their finances and limit their power while attempting to kill them. I honestly don't even think these radical Islamic pieces of trash even know what they are fighting for. They are just brainwashed to kill Americans and other Westerners. For what reason? I doubt they could even articulate it. The idea of an Islamic caliphate is pure psycho talk. Wanting to impose your religion on others...I'd love to know the justification for that from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 We should avoid making terrorists into bigger badder monsters than they are. If we decide to really bring force down on ISIS they aren't going to lawnmower man (dated reference) themselves into the Internet and become more powerful than we can possibly imagine (I can't stop myself). Broken skeletons in the sun have a harder time winning allies to their cause than living men standing proudly in defiance of the world. Corpses have a harder time carrying out genocide and keeping slaves too. Perhaps they can't be killed entirely, but they can be reduced to much less than they are currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 We should avoid making terrorists into bigger badder monsters than they are. If we decide to really bring force down on ISIS they aren't going to lawnmower man (dated reference) themselves into the Internet and become more powerful than we can possibly imagine (I can't stop myself). Broken skeletons in the sun have a harder time winning allies to their cause than living men standing proudly in defiance of the world. Corpses have a harder time carrying out genocide and keeping slaves too. Perhaps they can't be killed entirely, but they can be reduced to much less than they are currently. I just saw Lawnmower Man for the first time a couple weeks ago. An odd movie, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Killer had a history of petty crime https://mobile.twitter.com/borzou/status/753856093651144704 I do wonder sometimes how much of these terrorist groups (assuming he was part of or inspired by one) draw is religious cultism and indoctrination and how much is a love of violence and owed and making others suffer. I think in the case of ISIS at least they tend to pull a lot of people looking for excitement and lording it over others through violence and intimidation. This is kind of similar in some militias and security forces in more authoritarian countries that put a premium on recruiting thugs and killers. Of course there are also religious extremism and sectarian elements to the groups like AQ and ISIS, but putting aside all that and people forced or duped into joining ISIS at some point, part of it may just be that a lot of these folks who carry out attacks, beheadings, etc, are crazy or sadistic ****s who just want to hurt people and maybe becone famous for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Someone is doing something significant only by himself, eventhough he has a geopolitical agenda, and he likes to rub it in the face of our lousy lying politicians (Obama, Clinton, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron) 9000 flights over Syria, ISIS lost 40% of its territory, the ISIS oil trafficking took a heavy toll. Cut the source of income and you cut the snake's head.  Opposed to this one   Islam is not a religion it's a cult. See how it deals with women, gays and other religions in their own countries. Islam sanctions include beating, maiming, stoning, beheading. They are discouraged to take friends from amongst the unbelievers. We shall not make amalgam between terrorists and all muslims of course, but how many peaceful tolerant muslims rallied and protested in the streets after 9/11 or the Bataclan ? (In Paris about a hundred). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I don't get this - it would be like saying, "Americans need to not only renounce gang violence, but take up arms against gang members." This is a small minority of jackasses.. there's no name to really describe the filth... but to act like all Muslims are complicit, is a bit much. I've heard your argument before and I've really thought about it a lot.  I'm not saying the Muslim community at large is sheltering the terrorist element. What I'm asking is that we need their help. More likely than not, the terrorist live in these ethnic enclaves in cities in France: Paris, Nice, Marseilles. No not every Muslim will know who they are but if they are helping, then it makes it harder for these terrorists to stay out of sight.  And yes. Americans should stand up against things like gang violence or police brutality more vocally. When Westboro is giving christians a bad name. Christians shouldn't stand on the sidelines. Not saying take up arms (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 That's what the Christian nut jobs will have you believe. The solution is end of all religion. Until then, nothing will improve. Vladimir Putin endorses (and enforces) this message. Welcome to the new Soviet, komrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Interesting tidbit I heard: France is 10% Muslim. 70% of incarcerated people in France are Muslim. Could there possibly be a more fertile breeding ground for destructive extremism than a national prison system filled to the brim with disenfranchised Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 There's a nice French movie about that. Young teen goes to jail for a petty crime. He's probably Algerian descent but not radicalized at all. To survive in prison he's got to learn to make nice with Albanian mobsters and Muslims and radical Islamists (note distinction). In the process he becomes radicalized over a petty crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It never seems to end, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 That's what the Christian nut jobs will have you believe. The solution is end of all religion. Until then, nothing will improve. Communism tried to stamp out religion. People want religion. For all the horrors done in he name of religion, let's not forget the good things-establishment of educational and hospital systems. Religi Us groups more of the dirty work of feeding he homeless and caring for those in need of all kinds. Secularists think tax paying and feel good policy are enough to cure social ills-you need boots on the ground to feed, clothe, heal, and shelter. It never seems to end, does it? It's the new reality and same as it ever was. Plus ca change... We need to attack it from opposite tacks, root out the current problem with force and fix the problems that cause the isolation, lack of exposure to other ideas, education and poverty that lead to terrorism (this type of) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 It's the new reality and same as it ever was. Plus ca change... We need to attack it from opposite tacks, root out the current problem with force and doc the problems that cause the isolation, lack of exposure to other ideas, education and poverty that lead to terrorism (this type of) Yep, I think that prevention even if it a slow multi-generational process is our best shot. Force will also play a role, but education must be part of the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Someone is doing something significant only by himself, eventhough he has a geopolitical agenda, and he likes to rub it in the face of our lousy lying politicians (Obama, Clinton, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron) 9000 flights over Syria, ISIS lost 40% of its territory, the ISIS oil trafficking took a heavy toll. Cut the source of income and you cut the snake's head. [. Whatever dude. The US has been bombing the crap out of ISIS for two years. The only difference is our bombs have actually targeted ISIS whereas Russia has been targeting anyone opposed to the genocidal dictator they are propping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Yep, I think that prevention even if it a slow multi-generational process is our best shot. Force will also play a role, but education must be part of the works. So we can't just drone-bomb them into secular enlightenment and progressivism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 So we can't just drone-bomb them into secular enlightenment and progressivism? Some think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Damn. Someone already beat me to my "good guy with a truck" comment I came in here to make. That's what I get for sleeping in.  Yep, we should all have bazookas just in case. Ya just neva know. This is so irresponsible I don't even know where to begin. A bazooka is a free fire explosive that is very inaccurate.  Now if we arm everyone with Javelin missiles, we may be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Actually, you are both wrong. Everyone knows a bazooka is thin, fairly tasteless brand of bubble gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Some think so. What about a large-scale, multi-front, region-destabilizing conflict with poor intelligence and ill-defined goals that we won't start to pay for until our great-grandchildren are voting age? Do you think that will work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Actually, you are both wrong. Everyone knows a bazooka is thin, fairly tasteless brand of bubble gum. You forgot teeth breaking (at least the original was) But hey, it only cost 1 penny and it had a comic in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 What about a large-scale, multi-front, region-destabilizing conflict with poor intelligence and ill-defined goals that we won't start to pay for until our great-grandchildren are voting age? Do you think that will work? Can we add in a roughshod job of redrawing borders to group incompatible groups into an arbitrary landmass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Can we add in a roughshod job of redrawing borders to group incompatible groups into an arbitrary landmass? Great idea! ~ Halliburton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The problem with ISIS and other radical terror cells is that they can form right under our noses. It's not like you can target a central location of a certain country or region to eradicate the threat.  Just going off of the information from what I learned about the tragedy yesterday, this was ONE man in a truck. Yes, he had a petty crime history, but how do you go about stopping someone who mostly is flying under the radar?  This is a HUGE problem. One of which I really don't know the answer to.  The one thing I do know is that folks have to do better, and I even see it here on this page/thread, than to stereotype an entire religion based off of the actions of those who are rogue. If this is the hill that you're truly choosing to die on, maybe you should take a harder look at the religion you're part of and make sure you're not throwing stones from your own glass house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Or just die on the hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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