CNN: Nice official: Probably 30 people killed when truck runs through crowd

[Destino]

13 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Ridiculous is the same word that came to my mind. "Good morals and secularism." HA!

Ever get the feeling that secularism means very different things to different people?  

 

[Zguy28]

52 minutes ago, FrFan said:

It's not hate just the facts, come over here and see it for yourself. I've got no hatred for anyone, I'm just pissed at the people who are continuously disrespecting women and hating the gay/lesbian community.

52% of British Muslims in poll think homosexuality should be illegal

"Muslims were also much more likely to say Jewish people had too much power in Britain (35% agreed, compared with 9% of the general population); that it was acceptable for Muslim men to have more than one wife (31% of Muslims agreed versus 9% of the public); and that a woman should always obey her husband (39% of Muslims agreed, compared with 5% of the public). "

Not saying its right what radical Muslims believe and do (or what Islam believes in general; I'm a Christian), but I'm pretty sure a lot of them are pissed about secularism. Their worldview is in conflict with yours. This is the inherent contradiction of secularism. It pretends it believes in a form of pluralism until one of the competing worldviews disagrees or get's out of line. Then it reveals how intolerant and exclusive it is, just like others.

[Zguy28]

39 minutes ago, Destino said:

Ever get the feeling that secularism means very different things to different people?  

 

Exactly.

[FrFan]

47 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Not saying its right what radical Muslims believe and do (or what Islam believes in general; I'm a Christian), but I'm pretty sure a lot of them are pissed about secularism. Their worldview is in conflict with yours. This is the inherent contradiction of secularism. It pretends it believes in a form of pluralism until one of the competing worldviews disagrees or get's out of line. Then it reveals how intolerant and exclusive it is, just like others.

Secularism was first written in the declaration of human rights in 1789, then a law was passed in 1905.

Our secularism claims the state doesn't interfere with the religion unless the religion is in danger (persecuted). The country respects the religions but doesn't endorse/recognize any of them. Religious beliefs must remain private such as atheism.

Baubérot said we confuse secularism and secularization. In a secularized society it is not possible to do this or that. This is abnormal, this is not secularism but something that reflects a state atheism.

We thought it was dangerous to let the religions invade and rule our lives. Tolerance and secularism are rooted in the same soil made of murders and massacres. If we choosed secularism it's because we paid a heavy toll, we learned that religious wars were like opening Pandora's box, totally out of control.

I believe secularism is tolerant, we're not ruled by sharia, we let other religions/cults exist, we respect women and gay community.

The Islam I see in Saudi, Qatar, Emirates, (long is the list), and even in the only secular islamic state: Turkey is totally intolerant.

[tshile]

46 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

This is the inherent contradiction of secularism. It pretends it believes in a form of pluralism until one of the competing worldviews disagrees or get's out of line. Then it reveals how intolerant and exclusive it is, just like others.

secularism isn't about being tolerant or inclusive. it's about finding a place to make rules other than a religion, which tend to treat people who don't believe in said religion poorly so long as they're capable of doing so.
for as secular as we pretend to be we still have tons of people in this country that either actually write/pass laws based on their religious believes, or want to (or want someone else to.)

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Zguy28 said:

Not saying its right what radical Muslims believe and do (or what Islam believes in general; I'm a Christian), but I'm pretty sure a lot of them are pissed about secularism. Their worldview is in conflict with yours. This is the inherent contradiction of secularism. It pretends it believes in a form of pluralism until one of the competing worldviews disagrees or get's out of line. Then it reveals how intolerant and exclusive it is, just like others.

Have you googled it the word secularism?  I get a definition at the top of the page.  The first 8 words are fun.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Zguy28 said:

This is the inherent contradiction of secularism. It pretends it believes in a form of pluralism until one of the competing worldviews disagrees or get's out of line. Then it reveals how intolerant and exclusive it is, just like others.

 

Speaking only for myself, but I don't PRETEND to believe in pluralism, I actively support it. 

And not "until it disagrees or gets out of line". Until it TRIES TO IMPOSE ITS RELIGION ON EVERYBODY ELSE. 

You know, that whole "stops at the other guy's nose" thing. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

21 minutes ago, Destino said:

Have you googled it the word secularism?  I get a definition at the top of the page.  The first 8 words are fun.

I don't think that's a very good definition. Or maybe I should say that's not what I always understood secularism to mean.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/third-french-burqini-ban-corsica-clashes-110213965.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

Quote

Third French burqini ban after Corsica clashes

 

O...k...but: burqa and burqini aren't exactly the same thing.

[FrFan]

Justice approved the burkini ban decided by Cannes' mayor. "In the state of emergency context and recent Islamist attacks in particular in Nice  a month ago, wearing a distinctive dress, other than a usual swimwear, can indeed be interpreted in this context, as not a simple sign of religiosity."

Here, burkini is used by muslim integrists as a provocation such as burqa. With some of them you could see the makeup on their eyes behind the burqa !

About what happened in Corsica, a 15 years old was taking pictures of the beach when 3 morrocans ordered him to stop taking pictures of the wifes. He replied he was only taking pictures of the beach, not the women, that's when the 3 pricks assaulted him using a knife and a submarine speargun. He was injured and as he was running for his life people came to the rescue. 2 pricks are injured the 3rd one is in ICU, their 3 cars were burned down.

19 hours ago, visionary said:

O...k...but: burqa and burqini aren't exactly the same thing.

They are the same provocative tools, the only difference is the veil and where they are used. They never used the (10 years old australian) burkini before, why now when we are in a state of emergency ?

We have many different muslims communities here, one of the biggest one is the sub saharan. I've never seen muslim women from Mauritania, Guinea, Senegal, Ivory coast wearing burkinis here. Nevertheless the ones who are always making troubles are the maghrebians.

How many burkinis here ?

[FrFan]

Morrocans islamist pricks threw stones to a topless woman, the tourists were forced to leave the beach. Later on other tourists stopped by the cliff to take pictures of the beach the pricks insulted them forcing them to leave too. Later on a 15 years old taking selfies is assaulted with a knife. The father comes down to the rescue and the islamist pricks shoot him with a submarine speargun. They were lucky the police came to rescue them, unless the corsicans would have hung them, no one is allowed to harm a kid on the island.

Brawl in Sisco (Haute-Corse): The prosecutor points to the responsibility of the North African family, two villagers released (google translated)

"Obviously, the origin of the incidents are members of the North African family," said Bessone at a press conference. "They wanted to, in a logic of caïdat, own beach and privatize" the prosecutor said, adding: "They have multiplied (...) incidents with a number of people: stone throwing near d others to intimidate, very high tensions, insults, threats. "

[FrFan]

This is the sign displayed at the entrance of the aquatic complex of  Oasiria in Marrakech, Morocco

Strangely, it doesn't seem to cause any problem

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[KingGibbs]

Not gonna lie. With what has transpired in France the last year? I fully support whatever decision they make in regards to the Muslim community. It's easy to play Monday morning QB across the way. 

[Zguy28]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37173673

France 'burkini ban': Images of police on beach fuel debate

Pictures have emerged of French police appearing to enforce the controversial "burkini ban" on a woman on a beach in the southern city of Nice.

Police appear to issue a fine to the woman, who is then seen removing a veil and baring her arms.

Nice's deputy mayor said the removal of burkinis was a "necessity" after the deadly jihadist attack last month.

The French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) expressed concern at the direction the public debate was taking.

A bid to overturn the ban is due to come before France's highest administrative court on Thursday.

Rest at link...

 

 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

9 hours ago, KingGibbs said:

Not gonna lie. With what has transpired in France the last year? I fully support whatever decision they make in regards to the Muslim community. It's easy to play Monday morning QB across the way. 

Because ostracizing an entire community is definitely the way to kill radicalization.

As far as us not being able to play Monday morning QB: bull****. We had ****ing jumbo jets flown into our financial center and military headquarters. I think we're equipped to comment on this. And if George W. Bush ever did anything right, it was embracing our Muslim community--publicly at least--in the aftermath.

[Destino]

I'm still failing to see any connection between swimwear and terrorism.  This looks like yet another transparent attack on religious freedom in a nation that has already seen too much of it.  This is hardly the first disgraceful French action in pursuit of their disturbing interpretation of secularism.  

[visionary]

 

[FrFan]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

I'm still failing to see any connection between swimwear and terrorism.  This looks like yet another transparent attack on religious freedom in a nation that has already seen too much of it.  This is hardly the first disgraceful French action in pursuit of their disturbing interpretation of secularism.  

The doggone burkini is used for provocation and prozelytizing on purpose. We never talked about any direct link between this and terrorism just the religious prozelytizing in a secular state of emergency. This is nothing but a form of middle-age enslavement of women.

See my post above with the burkini ban sign in Morocco. It's prohibited and doesn't cause any problem down there, and last time I checked they're ruled by islam.

We leave in a different society, the religion is everywhere and used by the politicians in the USA, you even had a preacher running for presidency. Here, no way it's going to happen, please, if you have time run through our terrible religious wars history, slaughterings, massacres in the name of the religion within and outside of our country. Thanks God you guys never faced these darkest days.

Back to the doggone burkini, we never heard or see them before, so ask yourself this question Why now ?(for the record the burkini is 10 years old) My answer, because those women use it as a provocation, in a state of emergency they'll make the loudest buzzzzz, plain and simple. See the other stupid misinformation  from social networks above. They don't tell you that this women on Nice's beach choosed the exact spot of the massacres to show her burkini, while the beach is a few kilometers long !.

Please look at  my other post of the beach in Senegal (most people are muslims there) do they wear burkinis, NO, and everybody is fine with that. Here again ask yourself this question why do we have problems only with muslims from north africa ? We've got respectful other muslim communities including sub saharan muslims (Mauritania, Mali, Senegal, Ivory Coast, etc...), their women go to the beaches without burkinis, they don't block streets to pray and provoke ( and of course women are not allowed to pray with them ). Last but not least they can go to the beaches wearing "our" outfits just like on the beach in Senegal, why don't they do that ?

What about a hat, a thin sweatshirt and a long bermuda ? No, no, no, because these suitable outfits used in some open minded muslim countries show no sign of their obedience to radical islam !

Edit: French Wars of Religion

It is believed that 3 million people lost their lives in France.

Let's add the crusades numbers: 2.7 million people were slaughtered 400000 crusaders lost their lives. All this in the name of the almighty religion.
 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Got to say, and maybe it's just me, but it's somewhat amusing watching Europeans become everything they used to vehemently mock us Americans for. In a head-shaking, depressing way. 

[visionary]

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160818/mockery-and-debate-how-the-world-reacted-to-frances-burqini-bans

Quote

In Morocco, Jeune Afrique reported that there was "real tension" between fans and opponents of the burqini on the country's beaches, with both burqinis and bikinis worn by many. One woman interviewed by the newspaper said: "I can't stand seeing them on the beach. They scare me."

But a woman named as Sara, who wears the burqini, said "it saddens me that it is interpreted as a form of religious radicalization and that the image of women is reduced to a simple clothing choice. I'm not hurting anyone."

"This year, the burqini has raised controversy in Morocco. Seeing burqinis arouses curiosity and unease among swimmers," the newspaper wrote. The burqini is banned in some private pools, particularly in hotels and water parks in tourist destinations around Marrakech and Casablanca.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080727165851AApP63o

[Zguy28]

5 hours ago, FrFan said:

Edit: French Wars of Religion

It is believed that 3 million people lost their lives in France.

Let's add the crusades numbers: 2.7 million people were slaughtered 400000 crusaders lost their lives. All this in the name of the almighty religion.
 

smh. Is this where we trot out counter facts that show how secular atheist-based governments murdered about 100 million people in the 20th century alone? Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, North Korea, etc.

5 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

Got to say, and maybe it's just me, but it's somewhat amusing watching Europeans become everything they used to vehemently mock us Americans for. In a head-shaking, depressing way. 

Everybody thinks they are better than others until the testing comes.

[FrFan]

2 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

smh. Is this where we trot out counter facts that show how secular atheist-based governments murdered about 100 million people in the 20th century alone? Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, North Korea, etc.

Everybody thinks they are better than others until the testing comes.

Secularism is not atheism here, and since we embraced it we never killed in the name of the religion again