"TU: The Puzzling Plummet of RGIII by Jason Reid"

[TSO]

I blame zoony and Jumbo for getting me involved in this damn thread. Thanks a lot guys. I was perfectly fine being all high and mighty and shaking my head at the participants. Self esteem was good, I had the aura of respectability all around me, and everything was wonderful. Now I'm swimming in ****. 

 

I can feel the anger directed at me by posters I generally like right now. 

 

I hope you're happy. 

 

[Jumbo]

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm not sure if you're responding to my post or not, Sinister, but I think you are. First, I clearly stated that I think he's full of **** regarding whether or not he wanted to move up to draft Robert. But I also don't think Snyder was just all quiet on the sidelines, either. So not sure why leaks would've come out about that then or why that's relevant as a response?

But that issue aside, are you forgetting all the rumblings prior to the 2013 season? I don't get really where you're going with this, because I'm assuming you understand how things can build up before **** hits the fan.

I get it. No real problem with anything you said. I think the real issue at hand is just who was the driving force behind the trade, or who was mostly responsible.

I don't think any of us would think that an owner would just sit back and let his staff mortgage their future like that without having some things on his mind, neither would we think (I assume) that a coach would just sit back and allow the owner to take the reins and put their career on the line and make a move like that.

Such moves are not going to be done unless everyone is all in. It's just too much of a potential risk to be seen any other way. Thats why I say that if everything happened *exactly* as Mike said it did (which is a huge stretch), I don't think there's any way his disdain would not be felt/heard, even if he tried to look on the bright side and figure out a way to make it work. Its a massive, sink or swim proposition. And like I said before, Mikes history just doesn't lead me in the direction of "Snyder was the driving force, and Shanahan was the willing participant", or even a 50/50 split.

Im obviously aware of all the rumors swirling prior to 2013. My opinion then was that even if Griffin didn't want to run the RO, at the end of the day, he ran it, with everything he had, and put the team on his back. Not only that, but having a guy fresh off a kNee injury run the RO to begin with, is just dumb, and I don't have a problem with Griffin being upset about it. I don't think anyone should, really. And if Mike didn't think he could do anything else, he could have just shut him down. I mean, Mike claimed he shut Griffin down in 2013 for that very reason (although we both know what the real reason was).

If he had done that, I think he would have faced less backlash than he experienced after leaving him in the Seattle game.

And although I wonder about why Mike never leaked anything then, I do concede that he is very smart. At that time, Griffin had all the power in the court of public opinion. It wasn't until post injury that he began to publicly bury himself. And when all the ShannyLeaks started, it began to fill in a lot of blanks for people who were starting to seriously question all things RGIII.

As for what Mike changed, I agree, he changed a lot. But you could also say that from where we came from, it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, even though I was one of his most vocal supporters on here (until I just gave up, and had enough of him).

Honestly, I've said this before, but it bears repeating, since I think I am unwittingly giving off the impression that he should have been fired for his publicity stunt. I thought he should have been fired well before that, and said as much. All this other stuff just made me not like him as a person.

And I will say what I said before. Mike screwed Mike. I agree that Snyder and Griffin each have their roles in this, and that not everything was Mikes fault, but at the same time, Im not really interested in hearing a grown mans continued excuses as to why he was fired, and still can't find a job. He did plenty enough on his own to earn it.

Yes, Mike drafted some good players (players that contributed to our success), but the proof is in the pudding as to how effective his drafts were overall, by how many of his drafted players stayed on, or are still on the team, versus the handful that remain. Not many, and our depth was horrendous. Our o-line was horrendous. Defense, special teams. All bad. Nightmarish.

As for Gruden, I was initially on board with him, and even applauded him for basically telling Griffin to stfu. But he just was out of his depth that first year, and continued the public shamings of some of the players. He also did himself no favors by retaining Haslett (basically saying that the reason he sucked was all because of Shanahan), and playing musical chairs at the QB position.

I chalked it up mostly to the **** show he inherited, and rookie HC mistakes, but if he were to have been fired, he would have definitely done enough to deserve it. But he settled in nicely the following year.

I've posted enough on this and will drop it (im annoyed that we as fans have to live with media entities around here forcing us to live in the past, but im even more annoyed with Mike Shanahans continued whining.

Be a man and own up to your own role that you played in what ultimately will be looked back on as one of the biggest cluster****s in NFL history.

[BleedBNG]

This is the most interested part to me:

 

"With the coaches seated, Griffin walked to a blackboard and wrote:

1. Change things.

2. Change our protections.

3. Unacceptable.

4. Bottom line.

I really feel this was his father speaking thru him, rather than RGIII himself.

He just needs to stay away from any excessive twittering (or his thoughts of the day - ad nausea) and he'll be OK.

I hope he wins a SB for the Browns (or at least be their first QB who gets them there), as long as we're not on the other side.

[TSO]

Just can't bring myself to write a detailed response to all of that, Sinister. And, believe me, I can.

 

Just absolutely hate this topic at this point.

 

I'll just say that I heavily disagree with most of the assertions you put forward regarding Robert's handling of things (especially his right to complain after he got injured, went through the same crap with Kevin/LavarLeap in 2012) as well as Gruden's, and say that my mind is blown how, after everything we know now, these thoughts can still prevail.

 

I'll also say that I don't know why you went on about Mike's failures when I acknowledged them. I just would like you, as well as many others, to not be so prone to list them at the exclusion of the good. It just destroys any credibility you'd otherwise bring to the conversation for me. 

 

But, hey, agree to disagree.

[Ghost of]

I blame zoony and Jumbo for getting me involved in this damn thread. Thanks a lot guys. I was perfectly fine being all high and mighty and shaking my head at the participants. Self esteem was good, I had the aura of respectability all around me, and everything was wonderful. Now I'm swimming in ****. 

 

Didn't I ask you a long time ago if, "you might view them other commuters from a certain height?"

 

[Whiskeypeet]

Wasn't Mike brought in to stop this sort of thing from occurring?  That was supposed to be part of his responsibility given the "final say" he had in football matters.

 

Yet, if he is telling the truth, it did anyway.  Redskin nation was counting on him to change the culture (i.e. Dan's meddling) and he failed.  Assuming he is telling the truth, I don't feel any remorse for him.

[Mr. Sinister]

Just can't bring myself to write a detailed response to all of that, Sinister. And, believe me, I can.

Just absolutely hate this topic at this point.

I'll just say that I heavily disagree with most of the assertions you put forward regarding Robert's handling of things (especially his right to complain after he got injured, went through the same crap with Kevin/LavarLeap in 2012) as well as Gruden's, and say that my mind is blown how, after everything we know now, these thoughts can still prevail.

I'll also say that I don't know why you went on about Mike's failures when I acknowledged them. I just would like you, as well as many others, to not be so prone to list them at the exclusion of the good. It just destroys any credibility you'd otherwise bring to the conversation for me.

To be blunt, that sounds like a personal problem... one that doesn't concern me.

I "went on about it" because the tendency for many people in the media is to simply ignore all of that. That and im just reiterating my overall stance and why I feel that way. Not sure why you continue to take it as some kind of slight. It didn't really have anything to do with you. I even said I had no real beef with what you posted.

And I acknowledged how I was on board with many of Mikes moves, until it all just blew up in his face. I acknowledged how not everything that went on was his fault, but ALSO acknowledged that he had a role to play in all of it. So please don't get in a tizzy because of something you claim I did, only to turn around and do it yourself

So I'll say it again just so it will satisfy you. Mike did many good things. The problem is, they get overshadowed by all the moronic things he did, ultimately leaving the team the same dysfunctional mess they were when he first arrived. Several positives plus several more negatives, if you will. He stabilized our cap (before the lague committed highway robbery). He didn't trade away every draft pick he had year after year. He brought a professional feel back to the organization. He created a culture of accountability. Only problem with those last two is that when it came time to practice what he preached, he instead did the opposite.

So if your misinterpretation of what i said means I have lost all credibility, then I can't really say it bothers me all that much.

And yes, I still stand by what I said about Griffins issue with running the RO (while injured). I must have missed where we as adults have to like everything that is demanded of us. What matters is we do them. And he did it. So, using that specific incident, no, I don't have an issue with it.

Agree to disagree

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I must be in the minority but I don't believe that Mike Shanahan is lying in the least

Snyder once sued a reporter for drawing horns on a picture of him. Shannys narrative has been out there for 2 years now and nary a word. Not just from Snyder but from anyone with direct knowledge. Nobody has refuted any of it

My comment about Shanahan wasn't connected with this story, for the record...I didn't even read it lol...my views on Shanahan were formed awhile ago, back when we first hired him as Emperor Supreme. His time here, and subsequent comments in the press afterwards, just drove that reality home.

I used another poster's comment about why he believes Shanahan tells the truth to jokingly say why I do not lol...

[SkinsFTW]

Wasn't Mike brought in to stop this sort of thing from occurring? That was supposed to be part of his responsibility given the "final say" he had in football matters.

Yet, if he is telling the truth, it did anyway. Redskin nation was counting on him to change the culture (i.e. Dan's meddling) and he failed. Assuming he is telling the truth, I don't feel any remorse for him.

Mccloughan had to meet with Snyder for hours so that the coach could make a coaching decision on who is his starting QB. What was obvious to anyone with a functional eye could not be seen by the dude.

Let's not pretend that everything is 100% different now. Snyder has learned to keep us from hearing about his involvement which in no way makes it nonexistent.

[SpacePenguin]

I blame zoony and Jumbo for getting me involved in this damn thread. Thanks a lot guys. I was perfectly fine being all high and mighty and shaking my head at the participants. Self esteem was good, I had the aura of respectability all around me, and everything was wonderful. Now I'm swimming in ****.

I can feel the anger directed at me by posters I generally like right now.

I hope you're happy.

Well, the amount of love directed to you right now from me is at least that much. You save me the trouble of posting about this topic, because you always seem to have the exact same things to say about it as I do.

I'm really glad being a mod hasn't changed you.

Having said that.....this topic.....I.....just can't care anymore. It's over. It's just a sad situation that I'm.....so done with.

[NickyJ]

Mccloughan had to meet with Snyder for hours so that the coach could make a coaching decision on who is his starting QB. What was obvious to anyone with a functional eye could not be seen by the dude.

Let's not pretend that everything is 100% different now. Snyder has learned to keep us from hearing about his involvement which in no way makes it nonexistent.

That doesn't negate his point. When they signed with the team, Shanny and Scot were both given the task of shutting down Snyder's meddling. Mike failed, and from what we've seen so far, Scot has not. Shanny let an owner override his own decisions, and by his own accusations let one single second-year player overrule his own offensive scheme.

 

That Snyder was attached to this is not up for debate. Nobody disagrees. But Mike folded, and let them walk all over him. If Mike had put his foot down, one way or another, he wouldn't have any blame. If he succeeded, he'd get the credit that Scot has now for getting Snyder out of the way. If that had failed, and he ended up getting fired or quitting over it, he would be a martyr that would have the sympathy of the fans, and quite likely a job with another team. But Mike didn't do that, and now he's stewing in his own juices with no one to blame but himself for landing there. He lost his innocence when he let people walk all over his "authority", and he lost his credibility with it.

[TSO]

Didn't I ask you a long time ago if, "you might view them other commuters from a certain height?"

You WOULD just pop up outta nowhere with that.

[TSO]

Well, the amount of love directed to you right now from me is at least that much. You save me the trouble of posting about this topic, because you always seem to have the exact same things to say about it as I do.

I'm really glad being a mod hasn't changed you.

Having said that.....this topic.....I.....just can't care anymore. It's over. It's just a sad situation that I'm.....so done with.

Well at least somebody likes me, thanks bro, you're too kind! See, Sinister? 

And, brother, you had me all wrong. Just read your last post and the tone of it was way overboard. I wasn't slighting you, and didn't feel like you were slighting me. It's too bad that's how you took it. I don't feel like it's me doing the "misinterpreting" after reading that.

I do feel you over-emphasize one side of it over the other and don't qualify often enough. I think your posts before this little back and forth prove that. I also think that's why zoony and Jumbo chimed in, doing the same thing I intended; provide some balance. The flow of this thread wasn't an accident and you played a role in it.

This is exactly why I hate this topic and no, it's not a personal problem. It ruined a lot of the, otherwise, healthy discussion we like to foster around here.

But, even if it was, you're on the same message board I am and I'm going to make you read about my personal problem with it. Unless you choose to ignore it, which you didn't. To be blunt.

[Tsailand]

That Snyder was attached to this is not up for debate. Nobody disagrees.

 

At the time, quite a lot of Synder defenders were pretending that Danny had retreated back to his luxury box and Mike was in full control, even though the ****show had Synder's fingerprints all over it.

[SkinsFTW]

At the time, quite a lot of Synder defenders were pretending that Danny had retreated back to his luxury box and Mike was in full control, even though the ****show had Synder's fingerprints all over it.

Quite a lot=about 95% of everybody posting on the internet and if you didn't agree you were just a hater.

[NickyJ]

True, but that time is now three years ago. Not to mention, all the public messages out of Washington were that everything was 110% perfect. Everybody in the front office was scrambling to take credit for drafting a superstar QB, and nobody said otherwise until the team started failing and leaking in 2013. Suddenly, nobody wanted to take direct credit for it, and the narrative shifted from "we all wanted Griffin and did whatever it took to get him" to "it was Dan's idea, he forced us to".

 

If Mike had a problem, he should have dealt with it, either by putting his foot down or quitting and THEN making his tell-all, 'I'm a victim' spiel. He didn't, and instead flamed-out in a spectacularly ugly mud fight. He lost a lot of credibility with it, and gave many people good reason to doubt his word.

 

Anyway, this thread makes me sad. Two posts is enough staring into the abyss for me.

[Taylor703]

It is what it is. I hope both guys move on and learn something from this. Griffin has a lot of growing up to do and Shanahan needs to stop being a prick. Neither are perfect. That's life.

[Warhead36]

Its time to move on

 

[Boss_Hogg]

It just wasn't a good fit for everyone, Griff, Shanny, Dan, Kyle...everyone. 

 

Glad its over and I wish them all nothing but happiness. 

[Renegade7]

Threads like these make me want to go to the Cleveland game.

[SkinsFTW]

Threads like these make me want to go to the Cleveland game.

Are you assuming that Rg3 wins the job over Mccown?

[Renegade7]

Are you assuming that Rg3 wins the job over Mccown?

I was going to say it doesn't matter, but instead I'll just answer your question:

Yes. He'll be the starter.

I don't feel he'll ever be the second coming, but I always felt he didn't need to be. He just needs to extend plays, not turn the ball over, and stay healthy. Tall order, but not as tall as meeting those ridiculous expectations that we're put on him, hindsight and all.

The truth is I like Browns fans and I want to see us destroy him in person for closure.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

nm

[Mr. Sinister]

nm

Do it, Gordon