All Things Star Wars Thread

[Hersh]

What's amazing about Vader, and why it was so awful when they added the no to ROTJ, is that no words are needed to know what he's thinking. It's a ****ing mask!!! 

[LD0506]

[Yohan]

[LD0506]

[Momma There Goes That Man]

On 6/16/2022 at 8:32 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Better Vader at full strength kicking ass scene:

 

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1. End of Obi-Wan part V, pulls space ship down, tears it apart and toys with Reva?

 

2. Cuts through 50 rebels at the end of RogueOne?

 

3. Vader toying with Obi-Wan.

 

it’s easily #1. By far his best and most badass performance. Which is why I don’t think a Vader series works. You need to see that for 3-5 minutes and then it goes back in the box. If it’s a show and he’s doing that stuff or is the main character it just loses its impact to me. Then he’s just Scarlett witch or some superhero and I’ve seen that a ton. 

[Fergasun]

... well that ended much better than I forsaw after the first couple of episodes... speechless really

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, Fergasun said:

... well that ended much better than I forsaw after the first couple of episodes... speechless really

I’m the opposite. I hated that episode after I had come around on the series and it’s problems. 
 

Spoiler

Obi Wan beating Vader is unforgivable imo. They turned Vader into a complete weakling for that fight. They did not need to fight again, they should have had Vader take off his mask during that episode 3 fight so they could have that exchange. I simply don’t buy Kenobi who hasn’t touched a lightsaber or used the force in 10 years beating a peak Vader like that and it really takes all the terror away from Vader. Like it’s nice you can beat civilians and fake inquisitors with ease but you got overmatched by a washed up Obi Wan. Pathetic. The baddest man in the galaxy still clowned like a punk. So much for that. What would make him think the fight on Death Star would be an different? “Yeah but this time I’m sure I’m the master, there are no rocks to throw at me” stupid. The way that fight ended was dumb too. Obi wan specifically said, “one of us dies and it ends today. Except I’ll just walk away when I have him beaten.” 
 

also, what’s the point of having an entire ****ing galaxy if you get everywhere in 5 minutes? Reva getting to tattooine so quickly and then Obi wan getting there before that concludes is just ridiculous. His escape pod has a hyperdrive? 

 

[No Nonsense]

Episode 6 was OT quality. It was THAT good. 

[Hersh]

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I’m the opposite. I hated that episode after I had come around on the series and it’s problems. 
 

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Obi Wan beating Vader is unforgivable imo. They turned Vader into a complete weakling for that fight. They did not need to fight again, they should have had Vader take off his mask during that episode 3 fight so they could have that exchange. I simply don’t buy Kenobi who hasn’t touched a lightsaber or used the force in 10 years beating a peak Vader like that and it really takes all the terror away from Vader. Like it’s nice you can beat civilians and fake inquisitors with ease but you got overmatched by a washed up Obi Wan. Pathetic. The baddest man in the galaxy still clowned like a punk. So much for that. What would make him think the fight on Death Star would be an different? “Yeah but this time I’m sure I’m the master, there are no rocks to throw at me” stupid. The way that fight ended was dumb too. Obi wan specifically said, “one of us dies and it ends today. Except I’ll just walk away when I have him beaten.” 
 

also, what’s the point of having an entire ****ing galaxy if you get everywhere in 5 minutes? Reva getting to tattooine so quickly and then Obi wan getting there before that concludes is just ridiculous. His escape pod has a hyperdrive? 

 

dude, why do you even watch TV? You seem to hate all of it. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

dude, why do you even watch TV? You seem to hate all of it. 

 

thats hardly the case.

 

Spoiler

I very much loved this series after my vocal hesitance toward it, I just don’t understand what sense it makes to have peak Vader absolutely handled by a weak Obi wan easier than peak Obi Wan beating Anakin. It’s poor writing that does nothing but make ANH worse by weakening Vader as a threat now and then also showing an inexplicably weak Obi Wan in ANH after he reached this level again, effortlessly 
 

storytelling matters. There was no need to have this fight. It was fan service and doesn’t make either character better in any way. 
 

that’s just the fight not even factoring in other issues with episode. Why did Reva want to kill Luke anyway? Just because she knew he was important to Obi Wan? First all she wants Kenobi, then she has Kenobi but let him escape to track the entire rebel crew for some reason when all she really wanted was to get close to Vader. If so, no reason to track and let Obi Wan get away. So then she really wanted Anakin/Vader all along, but in this episode now wants to kill Luke because why? It’s hard to engage with characters when their motivations are all over the place or just not provided or clear at all. 
 

Obi Wan showing up at the end is pretty insane too. 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Hersh]

53 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Spoiler

thats hardly the case. I very much loved this series after my vocal hesitance toward it, I just don’t understand what sense it makes to have peak Vader absolutely handled by a weak Obi wan easier than peak Obi Wan beating Anakin. It’s poor writing that does nothing but make ANH worse by weakening Vader as a threat now and then also showing an inexplicably weak Obi Wan in ANH after he reached this level again, effortlessly 
 

storytelling matters. There was no need to have this fight. It was fan service and doesn’t make either character better in any way. 
 

that’s just the fight not even factoring in other issues with episode. Why did Reva want to kill Luke anyway? Just because she knew he was important to Obi Wan? First all she wants Kenobi, then she has Kenobi but let him escape to track the entire rebel crew for some reason when all she really wanted was to get close to Vader. If so, no reason to track and let Obi Wan get away. So then she really wanted Anakin/Vader all along, but in this episode now wants to kill Luke because why? It’s hard to engage with characters when their motivations are all over the place or just not provided or clear at all. 
 

Obi Wan showing up at the end is pretty insane too. 

 

 

Might not want to post all of that yet

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Hersh

[“Misdirection”]

6 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I’m the opposite. I hated that episode after I had come around on the series and it’s problems. 
 

  Hide contents

Obi Wan beating Vader is unforgivable imo. They turned Vader into a complete weakling for that fight. They did not need to fight again, they should have had Vader take off his mask during that episode 3 fight so they could have that exchange. I simply don’t buy Kenobi who hasn’t touched a lightsaber or used the force in 10 years beating a peak Vader like that and it really takes all the terror away from Vader. Like it’s nice you can beat civilians and fake inquisitors with ease but you got overmatched by a washed up Obi Wan. Pathetic. The baddest man in the galaxy still clowned like a punk. So much for that. What would make him think the fight on Death Star would be an different? “Yeah but this time I’m sure I’m the master, there are no rocks to throw at me” stupid. The way that fight ended was dumb too. Obi wan specifically said, “one of us dies and it ends today. Except I’ll just walk away when I have him beaten.” 
 

also, what’s the point of having an entire ****ing galaxy if you get everywhere in 5 minutes? Reva getting to tattooine so quickly and then Obi wan getting there before that concludes is just ridiculous. His escape pod has a hyperdrive? 

 

 

Spoiler

Star Wars is not now, nor has it ever been, about power levels. This isn’t DBZ. It’s always been driven by the force. Vader could’ve destroyed Luke, just like he could’ve destroyed Obi-wan earlier in the series. But he didn’t for ulterior motives, and emotion clouding his judgement. 

 

It was shown all season how distracting Obi-Wan was for Vader. If there’s anyone who could get him off of his game like this, it is him and only him. The emperor even calls this out in the end. His conflict makes him weak. 

Anakin was the most impulsive and emotionally unstable Jedi we knew. This series shapes Vaders character from thinking he was truly over it all, to becoming the Vader we know after failing and having to walk of shame back to palpatine. Who tells him to drop it from here on out, cause he knows it’ll fuel his hate fire even more. 

 

[Hersh]

The episode was brilliant. Nothing more to say at this point. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

40 minutes ago, “Misdirection” said:

 

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Star Wars is not now, nor has it ever been, about power levels. This isn’t DBZ. It’s always been driven by the force. Vader could’ve destroyed Luke, just like he could’ve destroyed Obi-wan earlier in the series. But he didn’t for ulterior motives, and emotion clouding his judgement. 

 

It was shown all season how distracting Obi-Wan was for Vader. If there’s anyone who could get him off of his game like this, it is him and only him. The emperor even calls this out in the end. His conflict makes him weak. 

Anakin was the most impulsive and emotionally unstable Jedi we knew. This series shapes Vaders character from thinking he was truly over it all, to becoming the Vader we know after failing and having to walk of shame back to palpatine. Who tells him to drop it from here on out, cause he knows it’ll fuel his hate fire even more. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

That’s not true. It’s not about power levels but the entire story and pretty much every movie has some training to get stronger in the force and fights are determined by skill and ability in the force.

 

Even from just a real life element, it simply doesn’t hold up that somebody could not practice or not do something for a decade and then beat somebody that has been training in this act repeatedly all day for a decade, especially when they were relative equals before. Home **** is wrong with you the **** up

 

Obi Wan shouldn’t get to to plug back into the force for a day and use his lightsaber one time and immediately become peak ROTS Obi Wan. Because if so, why does he completely fall of a cliff again over the next 7 years to become ANH Obi Wan? His portrayal was fine thru episode 5 but this is where they lost it for both Vader and Obi Wan. 

 

also, going back to character motivations, it’s clear why Vader doesn’t kill Luke. It’s not clear at all why he doesn’t kill Obi Wan or let’s him escape in episode 3 when he easily could have stopped his escape. It’s also not clear why he tosses some rocks on him and then walks away when he could have actually killed him here. Same for Obi Wan who states one of them will die but it will be ended today. Then he just walks away knowing Vader will continue to torment the galaxy and hunt him. Why? They should have had their exchange in episode 3, maybe Obi Wan lands a lucky shot or after the “I am what you made me” line Vader takes off his helmet and shows Obi Wan his face and they can have the same exchange then. It didn’t need to be at the expense of all Vader’s power and terror. 
 

from a storytelling perspective it made sense for them to fight in episode 3 because we learned about both of them through that fight. That was not the case with this one and I don’t see how anything was gained from this fight 

 

I think I’ll probably just stop watching Star Wars content outside of Grogu who is still interesting and at least cute if not interesting. Star Wars doesn’t do anything for storytelling it’s written for Twitter hashtags and to make fans squeal with lightsaber fights and overused characters that serve no narrative purpose. (Fan) Service Wars is all it is. 

 

[Riggo#44]

[Riggo#44]

5 hours ago, Hersh said:

The episode was brilliant. Nothing more to say at this point. 

Seriously, that was amazing and emotional. They hit the right points just right.

Spoiler

The dialogue between Obi Wan and Vader was gut wrenching. So well written and acted. Makes me angry at the prequels all over again. What could have been there...

 

You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did. Was a ****ing great line.

 

It's not unfathomable, as our resident Comic Book Store guy so boldly complains about, that Vader loses to Kenobi there. It's not like Vader folded either, he buried him in rock and rubble. Kenobi is no Padawan. And, Vader had his hands full with Ahsoka in Clone Wars as well. It's possible, given his redemption arc in RotJ, he holds back against those he cared about...Kenobi, Ahsoka, Luke. The Emporer at the end even questions this.

 

BTW, fantastic cameos from McDiarmid and Neesen.

 

It's completely obvious why Reva wants to kill Luke-to hurt Vader. Take his son away.

 

The only question I have is why didn't Obi Wan kill Vader. I understand he wouldn't be able to kill his friend, but still, questionable move there. They kind of painted themselves into a corner there, but not a show stopper.

 

Hello there.

 

4 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I think I’ll probably just stop watching Star Wars content outside of Grogu who is still interesting and at least cute if not interesting.

Promise?

[Riggo#44]

[Warhead36]

The last episode was amazing. That is all.

[Renegade7]

Yall have inspired me, giving Kenobi a chance...

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:43 PM, Momma There Goes That Man said:

it’s easily #1. By far his best and most badass performance. Which is why I don’t think a Vader series works. You need to see that for 3-5 minutes and then it goes back in the box. If it’s a show and he’s doing that stuff or is the main character it just loses its impact to me. Then he’s just Scarlett witch or some superhero and I’ve seen that a ton. 

Yeah, I think I'm inclined to agree, however the RogueOne sequence was absolutely amazing.  And maybe the best part was the absolute sheer terror on the rebels faces when Vader lights up his light saber. 

[Renegade7]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:43 PM, Momma There Goes That Man said:

it’s easily #1. By far his best and most badass performance. Which is why I don’t think a Vader series works. You need to see that for 3-5 minutes and then it goes back in the box. If it’s a show and he’s doing that stuff or is the main character it just loses its impact to me. Then he’s just Scarlett witch or some superhero and I’ve seen that a ton. 

 

I've felt for a while now (basically since Rouge One), that Vader is one of the most criminally wasted villains of all time, especially in the context of how many Star Wars movies have been made now.

 

Having said that, this is a compelling reason to "keep it that way".  I want to see more of his peak savagery, but a show of 'end of Rouge One scene' might jus be the dog catching its tail for that franchise.

[Fergasun]

36 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Yall have inspired me, giving Kenobi a chance...

Don't do it Renegade, we have the high ground!

 

 

 

 

I just don't want you to blame us if your force-leap-of-faith leaves you an angry quadrapalegic in a lava puddle screaming I HATE YOU at your tailgate brethren.

[No Nonsense]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I've felt for a while now (basically since Rouge One), that Vader is one of the most criminally wasted villains of all time, especially in the context of how many Star Wars movies have been made now.

I disagree with that. IMO, Vader was shown just enough. If they showed him too much, he loses some of that aura. The story was always about the good guys with Vader as the villain in the shadows, 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Well, this is interesting.  I think I'm somewhere between @Momma There Goes That Man and all the folks who loved it, and I think it's for two reasons. Actually, one REALLY big one, and one where I'm kindof "eh, what now?"  I will highlight them in my breakdown below:

 

Spoiler

- The first thing I really can't get over:  I can't get over Obi-Wan not finishing Vader TWICE.  How much pain and suffering could he have saved the galaxy if he just finishes him?  Ok, on Mustafar in RotS, I get it, he clearly THINKS he has killed him, but he didn't actually stick around to make sure.  And clearly he didn't know the horror he would become.  But my dude, this time?   You have him beaten, Vader just said he killed Anakin.  He's beaten.  You've GOT to end him.  (Granted, I know he can't, because then we don't have the OT.  Which we have, so....) They needed to find a different way for this to go down.  I didn't mind the fight, I didn't mind Obi-Wan winning.  But there needed to be some other way to get Vader out of that situation other than Obi-Wan just walking away.  Now somebody else (Luke) has to kill him, and also somehow deal with the emperor.  (Unless somehow Obi-Wan knows the future and that Anakin will flip to "kill" Palpatine (**** You Rise of Skywalker), and that's how they get Palpatine, you take Vader off the board here and that weakens Palpatine.  I'm sure he gets another apprentice, but it won't be the midiclorean Jesus.    

 

I think my head cannon is going to be they needed Vader to still be Vader to get close to the emperor.  (Which clearly they hadn't figured out yet.  Whoever "they" are.  But whatever.  It's the only piece of the story which makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.  And that bothers me.

 

- The second thing I didn't really like, or maybe understand, was why Reva wanted Luke in the first place, and why she was going to kill him, she couldn't, and she said she let him down. I didn't get any of that.  Maybe listening to a pod or two will clear it up for me, but as of now, that whole arc just made no sense at all.  Also, Bold Prediction: We will see Reva again.  She's going to pop up in one of the upcoming series. Maybe the Asokah series, maybe Mando.  But she just walked away without a trace.  To me, that indicates we'll see more of her.  And I'd be fine with that.  

 

- More of a nit to pick, but for whatever reason, and maybe it's my TV, I'm starting to hate "The Volume" where they do they new version of the green screen work.  It seems to work in Mando, but I found some of the backgrounds massively distracting and like the murals you would see in Sound of Music and other movies from the 1950's.  

 

Ok, now, things I loved:

- I like the way the episode opened.  The conversations on the ship were all very moving, and very enjoyable.

 

- I really liked the way they cut between Vader/Obi-Wan and Reva/Luke/Owen/Baru.  That sequence was extremely well edited, and really fun.  Somehow, they managed to maintain tension when you know who's going to live (all of them).  

 

- At the end of the Obi-Wan/Vader fight, when you could see half of Vader's face, and the voice thing wasn't exactly working, so half the time you heard Hayden, and half the time you heard James Earl Jones, I swear, GOOSEBUMPS.  That sequence might have been my favorite of the episode.  (Now, if they could just have had a couple TIE fighters swoop in and blast around Vader and force Obi-Wan to retreat, or really any other reason to explain Obi-Wan NOT killing the second most dangerous person in the galaxy for the second time, it would have been awesome.)

 

- I loved the ending sequence on Aderaan.  And they explained away enough of the formal message for my take. Leia with her hair up in the buns, the exchange with Obi-Wan, all of it was really good.

 

- Ewan McGregor can say, "Well, hello there" to me anytime he wants, and I'm here for it.  

 

- I really did enjoy the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader.  Contrary to @Momma There Goes That Man, I thought Obi-Wan lifting the rocks and throwing them at Vader was cool. Brought back Empire vibes with Vader using the force to throw things at Luke and push him out to the ledge in cloud city. 

 

- I'm down for the cameos.  I like that Qui-Gon chastised Obi-Wan.  Felt really natural.  Does open a little bit of a plot hole, why don't we see Qui-Gon's ghost in the OT? (I mean, obvious answer, Lucas hadn't invented him yet.  But, they haven't explained that one away yet.)

 

- I have for YEARS had a nit to pick with Obi-Wan calling Vader "Darth" in ANH.  Well, this scene actually when he called him "Darth," that was clearly intentional, and by God, my nit to pick has been resolved.  That's what he calls him after he knows Anakin is dead.  Fine, I can live with that.  Nit resolved.  

 

Overall, I enjoyed the episode.  If they had just managed to get Vader out of there with some other means, it would have been an A+. But I think I drop it down to a B.  

 

As a side note, I think we have a RotJ parallel: Luke turned himself in to Vader to protect his friends, and then fought him and won, and Obi-Wan does the same.  I think even some of the dialog between Luke and Leia might be really similar to the Obi-Wan and a whole bunch of people when he decides he is going to draw Vader off. 

 

There might be other parallels, but that's what I could come up with quickly. (There was no Jabba, no Endore, and no fleet attack on anything, so I think that's our parallel.

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Don't do it Renegade, we have the high ground!

 

 

 

 

I just don't want you to blame us if your force-leap-of-faith leaves you an angry quadrapalegic in a lava puddle screaming I HATE YOU at your tailgate brethren.

 

The end of episode 3 has a special place in my heart, equal parts cheesy and goosebumps, one of the few things I liked about the prequels : )

12 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

I disagree with that. IMO, Vader was shown just enough. If they showed him too much, he loses some of that aura. The story was always about the good guys with Vader as the villain in the shadows, 

 

Nah, needs more, not its own show more, but more before directors try even harder to get away from him and his storyline links for their own visions of the star wars universe, like Taika Waititi.