All Things Star Wars Thread

[LD0506]

[Momma There Goes That Man]

[Voice_of_Reason]

^^ I thought Mal and the Joanna substitute on House of R made a really compelling argument about why the effect on ANH isn’t that big a deal. 
 

I gotta say, I like the show and I’m ok with the price that a few lines will make less sense.  Though I totally understand if that’s not your thing.

 

I just want the show to be well done, and spending more time in the universe in the end is exciting for me.

 

Another point specific to Vader: unlike The Night King, who was essentially just existential evil looking to kill everyone, where I had absolutely no interest in learning more about him or his army, and just wanted that part of the plot handled to move on to what I cared more about, which was the Jon/Danny/Cercei of it all, Vader is different. (Granted, in the end, that part of the plot was poorly ended, and a complete debacle. ) 
 

I am Interested in him as a character, how he handles things, what is important to him, etc.  He has a character arc.  Emotions, desires, goals, etc.  and I find them interesting.  
 

We get so little time with Vader through the OT, flushing some of it out is good.

 

And I grant you, I know there are comics and novels and such, but those aren’t really my bag.  So seeing it on the screen is very interesting to me.  

Edited June 4, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[dfitzo53]

Also, can we please not pretend like the continuity from ANH to ROTJ was even intact from the start?

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I gotta say, I like the show and I’m ok with the price that a few lines will make less sense.  Though I totally understand if that’s not your thing.

This is where I am at. If some want to nitpick and over-analyze every little winged arabian vs. winged appaloosa, have at it.

I'll put my first thoughts in the spoiler tag below. Feel free to DM me or respond with anyone's thoughts as well. So far, I am LOVING Obi Wan.

Spoiler

• The nice thing about using established characters is the emotional attachment is already there--we already know and care about Obi Wan, Anakin/Vader. The shock on Obi Wan's face when he finds out that Anakin is still alive is a gut punch.
• The horror on Kenobi's face as Vader is just walking down the street, snapping people's necks indiscriminately, hits hard.
• "What have you become?" "I am what you made me!" Is "I am your father" level Vader-ism.
• Yes Vader could have wiped the floor with Kenobi, but you could feel the hatred and the need to make Obi Wan suffer in the same vein as Anakin did.
• They've done a very good job setting up a good redemption character arch for Kenobi--from a PTSD'd emotionally devoid shell of himself  to someone who cares again. Cares enough to get involved with Luke in ANH. It was shocking to see him turn a cold shoulder to Nari in Part I and tell him to bury his saber in the desert and live a normal life--only to see his body on display. There is going to be a bridge from the hopeless "we lost" to the ANH "we can win."
• His attitude towards Bail Organa is the same--he's not the same Grampa Jedi we see in ANH. It will be interesting to see how he gets there. He and Vader will face off again with a stronger Kenobi.

 

38 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said:

Also, can we please not pretend like the continuity from ANH to ROTJ was even intact from the start?

Most franchises like Star Wars have gaping plot holes--the MCU, Indiana Jones...it's near impossible to  have this much content and not have minor conflictions or contradictions.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, dfitzo53 said:

Also, can we please not pretend like the continuity from ANH to ROTJ was even intact from the start?

You mean, between Star Wars, and Star Wars Episode V?  
 

 

[Riggo#44]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:15 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Necessary?

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

The show is awesome. I just don’t know why you do something that detracts so much from the existing story. Like in Leia’s R2 message to Obi Wan, there is no familiarity with him. it’s just ridiculous and now it breaks quite a bit about one of the few Star Wars movies that actually stood on it’s own pretty well. Now, two of the biggest bits of world building in that movie don’t work. 
 

“General Kenobi, years ago you served my father during the clone wars. And actually just a little bit ago we had some adventures together escaping the inquisitors and Darth Vader across several planets. It was wild. You remember me, right? It’s me, Luma/Leia. Please help me again, you’re my only hope…again” 

 

“I’ve been waiting for you Obi Wan. We meet again at last…again. The trapezoid is now complete. When I left you, after thoroughly kicking your ass and burning you while you ran terrified of me, I felt I was still but the learner. But now…this time, for real, I really do feel like I am the master.” 
 

later during the fight 

“your powers are weak old man. I know this insult doesn’t sting as much since I also told you the years have made you weak the last time we fought and I kicked your ass but damn Obi, they are really weak AF this time”

 

I’d rather not have some cool moments and keep a functioning good story that holds together well. But the message has been sent. Fans just want the OT characters repackaged and served to them again and again because it’s cool and fun regardless of the actual substance of it. This is why everyone cried about Luke in TLJ, he wasn’t fun, he should be superhero Luke. So now that’s what we have to get shoved into the Mandalorian shows. That’s why RoS was an OT highlight reel that failed to do anything interesting. That’s why we can’t have pretty much anything without Vader or Luke, Leia, Hand, and Boba or something to link back to them. 
 

oohhh ahhhh lightsabers, Kenobi and Vader fighting, so cool! More! ignite the 8yr old in my  adult body! 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Yohan]

6 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

The show is awesome. I just don’t know why you do something that detracts so much from the existing story. Like in Leia’s R2 message to Obi Wan, there is no familiarity with him. it’s just ridiculous and now it breaks quite a bit about one of the few Star Wars movies that actually stood on it’s own pretty well. Now, two of the biggest bits of world building in that movie don’t work. 
 

“General Kenobi, years ago you served my father during the clone wars. And actually just a little bit ago we had some adventures together escaping the inquisitors and Darth Vader across several planets. It was wild. You remember me, right? It’s me, Luma/Leia. Please help, you’re our only hope” 

 

 

The guy didn’t even know Leia was a Skywalker and Luke’s twin in RoTJ, and he was there for her birth. You really expect him to to remember the Adventures of Luma and Orden?

[88Comrade2000]

Obi-Wan did so good, Disney has greenlighted a season 2.  

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

“I’ve been waiting for you Obi Wan. We meet again at last…again. The trapezoid is now complete. When I left you, after thoroughly kicking your ass and burning you while you ran terrified of me, I felt I was still but the learner. But now…this time, for real, I really do feel like I am the master.” 
 

I assume it was this thread somebody posted:  

 

"This was your father's. He murdered 11 children with it. Also, I might have dismembered and tried to kill him with it. It was a rough couple of days."

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, Yohan said:

The guy didn’t even know Leia was a Skywalker and Luke’s twin in RoTJ, and he was there for her birth. You really expect him to to remember the Adventures of Luma and Orden?

That makes a lot more sense if he hasn’t seen her in 20 or so years than it does if he is off having adventures with her a handful of years before the OT. 

[mistertim]

Honestly, almost nothing will ever truly please all SW fans.

 

If you make something that could create discontinuity with the OT then the "purists" will scream and yell about it.

 

If you make something that is 100% in line with what was done and said in the OT, then other fans will scream and yell about you catering to the purists at the expense of making something really cool.

 

I'm really digging Obi-Wan Kenobi and I'm basically ignoring all of the potential discontinuity with the OT because, while I'm a huge SW fan and pretty much always have been, I also really enjoy great movie and show making in general, and this qualifies IMO. I just think I'd be miserable if I let myself get sucked into that whole debate. I just see no point to it.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

That’s fine, I get it but in 10 years when all we have is a bunch of fragmented cool moments that don’t connect or hold together anymore, I mean I guess that’s what Star Wars will just be then 

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

If you make something that is 100% in line with what was done and said in the OT, then other fans will scream and yell about you catering to the purists at the expense of making something really cool.

No large movie franchises line up perfectly without any kind of continuity errors or issues--the only enjoyment lost are from people who just want to nit pick and complain just to show how smart they are. It's gotten really annoying.

 

A real continuity/plot hole issue would be the end of X Men Origins: Wolverine where Stryder is arrested for murder...and then is able to come back to be the primary villain in X2. This isn't that, at all.

[mistertim]

50 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

That’s fine, I get it but in 10 years when all we have is a bunch of fragmented cool moments that don’t connect or hold together anymore, I mean I guess that’s what Star Wars will just be then 

 

Well I think the only real way to keep everything 100% in line with the OT would be to just completely stop making Star Wars films or shows that have any relationship with the OT. Unless you want to make something that shows Obi-Wan and Vader just doing completely different things at the same time at completely different places while having no interaction.

 

Honestly, I think at this point it would be really cool to see something not directly tied to the original SW films. Maybe something Old Republic based so we can see the Sith and the Jedi at the height of their powers. But I'm guessing movie studios would balk at that since the OT based stuff is such a money maker.

[No Nonsense]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well I think the only real way to keep everything 100% in line with the OT would be to just completely stop making Star Wars films or shows that have any relationship with the OT. Unless you want to make something that shows Obi-Wan and Vader just doing completely different things at the same time at completely different places while having no interaction.

 

Honestly, I think at this point it would be really cool to see something not directly tied to the original SW films. Maybe something Old Republic based so we can see the Sith and the Jedi at the height of their powers. But I'm guessing movie studios would balk at that since the OT based stuff is such a money maker.

I think the way to go is a millennium after the events of the OT and sequels where the events of those trilogies are seen in a religious type of way where Luke is seen as a Jesus type of figure. Some believe and others don’t. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

No large movie franchises line up perfectly without any kind of continuity errors or issues--the only enjoyment lost are from people who just want to nit pick and complain just to show how smart they are. It's gotten really annoying.

Yes it’s all just to show how smart we are lol. It’s not a nit pick when it changes the characters and the moments that have existed for decades. And you are wrong about large movie franchises. If you want Star Wars to be fast and furious, where nothing makes sense and everything is done just to give you a dopamine rush while you eat popcorn because it looks cool, then just say so. I kinda hoped Star Wars would be something better than that given that it’s a 50 year property with an established story.
 

You can build onto that story but why purposely add story that creates a continuity issue and makes the existing story worse? It’s not like trying to tell an entire PT 30 years later. That was a necessary and worthwhile story that we didn’t know. Obi Wan’s story tracks already from Sith to ANH and what we saw in the PT makes his confrontation with Vader more meaningful. This takes away from it. Same with Leia now showing 0 reaction to Kenobi being on the Death Star or when she sees him die, the man she had adventures with globe hopping while escaping the most evil person in the galaxy and multiple inquisitors when she was kidnapped. The man who knew and remembered her mother that she thought might have been her father. I guess she just forgot. 
 

but we got a cool moment out of it so that’s enough to satisfy “the fans” . just keep shoveling cool fights from the same characters down their throat, they don’t care about anything else 

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Well I think the only real way to keep everything 100% in line with the OT would be to just completely stop making Star Wars films or shows that have any relationship with the OT. Unless you want to make something that shows Obi-Wan and Vader just doing completely different things at the same time at completely different places while having no interaction.

They can make plenty of stories that do stay in line with OT, rogue one did. Kenobi’s story was always going to mess up the OT but it still could have done it though better than this. At least tried to stay in line. They seemed to focused on taking every moment involving Leia or Kenobi in ANH and retconning it though.
 

But they can’t help themselves. A period of time exists when Obi Wan and Vader are still alive so of course they have to fight. and guess what, they’re probably going to fight again this season when he regains his hope in the Jedi where he wins so Vader’s ANH line makes sense, tho it kinda makes Vader look like a chump the last decade. Hey they’ll probably fight again next season too.  
 

i want to see his hair turn white from the ass kicking Vader gave him. Try to bring it back a little and make some type of sense 

[88Comrade2000]

6 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

That’s fine, I get it but in 10 years when all we have is a bunch of fragmented cool moments that don’t connect or hold together anymore, I mean I guess that’s what Star Wars will just be then 

The moment George Lucas sold the rights to Disney; you knew Disney was going to milk it for all they can.

[Riggo#44]

On 6/5/2022 at 5:20 PM, 88Comrade2000 said:

Obi-Wan did so good, Disney has greenlighted a season 2.  

The direction to Filoni and Favreau from the Disney higher ups, when signing off Season 2:

 

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

51 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The moment George Lucas sold the rights to Disney; you knew Disney was going to milk it for all they can.

Yeah i really don’t have a problem with Disney because their Star Wars content has been pretty great to me, it’s just marred from letting JJ **** the bed with RoS and actually letting him set the whole trilogy up for a mess in the first place with TFA being an ANH ripoff that had no clear structure for the rest of the story. 
 

even this is extremely well done and like I said, awesome, I just wish it didn’t take away from and hurt the existing story. 

[LD0506]

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, LD0506 said:

 

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Fellatio The Swallower? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Fellatio was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so perverse and so horny he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to remove all gag reflexes… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from having a gag reflex. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more!). He became so perverted… the only thing he was afraid of was losing was his ability to deep throat, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice made him choke on his engorged ****. Ironic. He could save others from a gag reflex, but not himself.

[NoCalMike]

I am sort of at the point where when it comes to Star Wars I pretty much view the OT as the shrine. And everything else is a mixed bag of spin-offs and side stories.  The Mandolorian & Rogue One are probably the two closest entries post-OT that truly gave me the "wow, this is Star Wars" feeling. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/6/2022 at 2:52 PM, mistertim said:

Honestly, I think at this point it would be really cool to see something not directly tied to the original SW films. Maybe something Old Republic based so we can see the Sith and the Jedi at the height of their powers. But I'm guessing movie studios would balk at that since the OT based stuff is such a money maker.

I think this is coming.  At some point.  

 

The thing is, the story of the OT is like a security blanket.  You can go to just about any city center in the entire world, and everybody knows Luke, Leia, Han and Vader. And after the prequels, they know Anakin and more about Obi-Wan.  They know the OT.  It's ingrained not just in American popular culture, but WORLD popular culture.  (Not everyone is going to know about the "secondary" characters, but the big ones?  Most folk know.)

 

So, having stories around that foundation makes so much sense. You don't have to educate your audience about those characters.  They are adored by literally generations of fans of all walks of life, all genders, ages and nationalities. 

 

I mean, maybe the graphics were a little off, but when (SPOILER from 1.5 years ago and I'm assuming everybody in this thread knows this at this point but if you haven't watched Mando season 2 stop reading here) Luke shows up in the season 2 finale of Mando, it was like an international incident.  People went crazy.  

 

So I completely understand why "Disney" (just using the company as a catch all for whatever the "plan" is) wants to exploit this base of characters.  People love them.  There are still stories to tell.  Sure, there will be some continuity issues.  But the OT is filled with continuity issues to begin with because originally, Luke and Leia were not twins and Vader wasn't their father.  So, Lucas retconned ANH in the the next movie that came out. 

 

The only resounding "thud" they've had when using one of those characters was with "Solo."  And they should have seen that coming.  They tried to cast another actor to play Han. As far as I can tell, only 2 of the original cast members have been re-cast as younger versions of themselves:  Obi-Wan and Han.  Alec Guiness's Obi-Wan was replaceable.  Han is not.  You can't replace Harrison Ford's Han, and they should have known that. 

 

Rogue One was an awesome movie.  You could argue the 45 seconds of Vader at the end of the movie stole the show.  Which says nothing about the rest of the movie.  It was great.  But Vader shows up, and damn. 

 

So I'm thoroughly enjoying Obi-Wan.  I'm ok with some of the retconning.  Yeah, the fact Leia doesn't seem to be more like "hey, I need you again old man" is a bit odd.  But whatever.  I can live with that in order to get the young Leia/Obi-Wan storyline.  Which is really cool.