The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I see the difference clearly.  But Im not the one blinded by hatred for absolutely anything the political opposition does.  

 

Let your true colors shine. That's what you are doing. Maybe you are blind to how you come across in here. Maybe you don't care. This thread, this issue, it is making it perfectly clear who people really are. 

[Burgold]

 

[Kilmer17]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

NPR said he had something this morning at 6 AM when I was listening. 

A process where a judge reviews the case.

 

Which is why we have this problem. There are not enough judges.

 

Which is why some people are calling for hiring of more judges to handle the backlog.

 

This all hinges around too many people, not enough resources, and a group of politicians who have neglected it and now want to feign moral outrage at the situation so that they can get their supporters to come to their side to defend them.

Is it really that simple?  Trump appoints more judges?

Just now, Hersh said:

 

Let your true colors shine. That's what you are doing. Maybe you are blind to how you come across in here. Maybe you don't care. This thread, this issue, it is making it perfectly clear who people really are. 

Well I certainly dont a **** what certain people think my true colors are.  Most of them are so partisan it's easier to cram any non left winger into a box and call them a nazi.

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

That's a serious problem.  What stops EVERY SINGLE immigrant from claiming asylum?

 

Nothing stops them but there are laws governing who can claim asylum, quotas and obviously a hearing where people can make their case. 

 

The only solution to this is more immigration judges. There is no interim that you keep asking for. The system is a complete mess and has been for a long time. 

 

It sucks big time for most immigrants. There are currently thousands of Indians in the US on H1B visas who have applied for green cards but have hearings scheduled 200+ years from now. It’s a broken system on every level, and it’s largely because the judicial system is overburdened. 

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Is it really that simple?  Trump appoints more judges?

 

In regards to why we have families being separated and the sudden care about children being locked up?

Yes. It's because there's a backlog of asylum cases that cannot be heard fast enough.

 

In terms of the general immigration problem? No, but i've yet to see where we've filled out political positions with people that actually give a ****, so I don't expect any progress there.

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Is it really that simple?  Trump appoints more judges?

Well I certainly dont a **** what certain people think my true colors are.  Most of them are so partisan it's easier to cram any non left winger into a box and call them a nazi.

 

You are the one making this issue partisan then complaining that it's a partisan issue. 

[gbear]

Define detained please.  I keep seeing children "were detained before" when parents were arrested.  My wife and I have taken in kids whose parents were/are in jail.  In fact, that is a fairly normal way for children to enter into the foster care system.  I feel compelled to point out the goal of foster care is family reunification, not hostage taking.  I would also point out cages are no part of any foster care home I know about nor is it part of any group home.  There have been a few court cases where foster parents went to jail for using cages.  If the claim is we don't have enough foster homes or even group homes, I agree.  Start funding them!  Make it so families can take in more children responsibly, meaning without hurting the children already in the families.  As is, the number of foster families who provide homes to more than one child is a sign of the difficulty providing homes because once you are in the system and have an extra room/bed social workers will keep asking if you are willing to take in another. Then foster families have to weigh the other "wants" they may have versus the needs of desperate children.  Nothing feels more empty to me than thinking I am going to turn down taking in that child so my wife and I can have more time for marital relations (huge turn off, at least for me).

 

Working with economic and demographic information, I still keep coming back to the question of why we aren't trying to assimilate more of these immigrants.  We need a younger work force.  Ours is aging, and the only first world economy (perhaps loosely defined) is the country immediately to the south of us, and we rant about their families coming our way.  Why?  We need them!  It may be short term pain with assimilating their cultures while we work to educate them into the workforce we need.  Correct me if I am wrong, but are we not nearing "full employment?"  We are going to come to a point where our working age population to elderly/disabled population hits a low point.  Our ability to come out of this dive sure would be helped with an influx of immigration.   

 

Ranting to stop immigration because we are not wiling to serve those already here presents us with a false choice.  It's not a question of whether we should bolster our safety net or encourage immigration.  We should do both.  In fact, I think we will need to do both.  Granted, "need" is only if we want to maintain our current professed values and way of life.  Of course the question is whether professed values are those to which we only give lip service.  

[The Evil Genius]

Under the old rules, I believe DHHS was required to relocate kids within 3 days of arrest (of the parents). Not hold them indefinitely.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

It’s a broken system on every level, and it’s largely because the judicial system is overburdened. 

Which, it should be pointed out (i'm aware you know this), that the burden is not just (or even mainly) do to a lack of judges but more a terrible policy framework that's never adapted as the problem has changed.

 

We need more judges right now. We need a better policy moving forward.

 

[Kilmer17]

Ask the crabbers in the mid atlantic, the shrimpers in FL, the produce farmers throughout the country what they think.  Our country has to have more immigrants now because Joe and Susan Smith dont like paying 18 dollars a pound for shrimp.

 

I think it's wrong in that context to point to the separation of families as proof the system is broken and despicable.  That's simply a by product.

 

Will more judges fix that?  If so, appoint more (Cruz proposed this?).  But when this latest outrage fades, lets not allow the policiticians to claim victory and ignore it again.

[Hersh]

Just now, tshile said:

Which, it should be pointed out (i'm aware you know this), that the burden is not just (or even mainly) do to a lack of judges but more a terrible policy framework that's never adapted as the problem has changed.

 

We need more judges right now. We need a better policy moving forward.

 

 

We won't get a better immigration system while racist people are in the White House and in Congress. We'd have a lot better chance of getting something done if the GOP returned to their free market business roots. 

[Gibbit]

somebody just fix mexico please

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

We won't get a better immigration system while racist people are in the White House and in Congress. We'd have a lot better chance of getting something done if the GOP returned to their free market business roots. 

 

That sounds neat, but again you shouldn't let the ones that have had control over the previous almost-40-years off the hook so easy.

 

 

[Kilmer17]

3 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

We won't get a better immigration system while racist people are in the White House and in Congress. We'd have a lot better chance of getting something done if the GOP returned to their free market business roots. 

It's a shame we've gone so long without Democrats in control.

[Hersh]

Just now, tshile said:

 

That sounds neat, but again you shouldn't let the ones that have had control over the previous almost-40-years off the hook so easy.

 

 

 

I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I was just answering what is needed now since we can't do anything about the past. 

[twa]

7 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Under the old rules, I believe DHHS was required to relocate kids within 3 days of arrest (of the parents). Not hold them indefinitely.

 

 

 

They are not being held indefinitely now, DHS transfers custody to HHS who tries to place them with relatives and foster homes, but they cannot just release kids nor place them immediately

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

It's a shame we've gone so long without Democrats in control.

Of Congress?

 

I agree.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I was just answering what is needed now since we can't do anything about the past. 

 

What is needed now is a long over due overhaul of our immigration system.

 

Coming away with anything less is letting them off the hook.

[No Excuses]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

That sounds neat, but again you shouldn't let the ones that have had control over the previous almost-40-years off the hook so easy.

 

 

 

Immigration reform was attempted by both GWB and Obama and killed by far-right extremists each time. 

 

There is literally one faction of the Republican Party that has consistently found a way to kill any immigration legislation that has generated bipartisan support. 

 

This isn’t a both sides issue when moderates on each side have put out sensible policies and goons like Steve King and Jeff Sessions have successfully nuked the efforts each time. 

[tshile]

Just now, twa said:

 

They are not being held indefinitely now, DHS transfers custody to HHS who tries to place them with relatives and foster homes, but they cannot just release kids nor place them immediately

 

Yeah we gotta get our "DHS lost immigrant children" articles somehow. You can't get those by holding them in cages forever.

[Kilmer17]

Just now, Burgold said:

Of Congress?

 

I agree.

Less than a decade ago.  We didnt have an immigration problem then though.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

It's a shame we've gone so long without Democrats in control.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. It's a shame that the Dems didn't also tackle immigration in 2009-2010. It's also a shame that the GOP blocked their own President from enacting immigration reforms in 2005. Currently it's a shame there are racist ****s in the White House. 

[tshile]

Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Immigration reform was attempted by both GWB and Obama and killed by far-right extremists each time. 

 

There is literally one faction of the Republican Party that has consistently found a way to kill any immigration legislation that has generated bipartisan support. 

 

This isn’t a both sides issue when moderates on each side have put out sensible policies and goons like Steve King and Jeff Sessions have successfully nuked the efforts each time. 

 

This is bull****. The left has preached amnesty style solutions and ignored the problem at the border.

 

Go ahead and preach botherism bull**** all you want. Have at it.

[Hersh]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Less than a decade ago.  We didnt have an immigration problem then though.

 

I can only imagine the outrage if Obama started his first term with immigration reform in the middle of the worst economic disaster in 80 years. Actually, everyone knows exactly how it would have gone. 

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

This is bull****. The left has preached amnesty style solutions and ignored the problem at the border.

 

Go ahead and preach botherism bull**** all you want. Have at it.

 

Not just the left. Reagan and Dubya too.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/reagan-and-bush-made-immigration-executive-orders-2014-11

 

 

Amnesty is and should always be the first step (imho). 

Edited June 19, 2018 by The Evil Genius