Red Cloud Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Man that was painful to watch. Bizarrely, I seriously think we could have won that game. Recover the onside kick (especially when you have it in your hands!), catch some balls, capitalise on those turnovers, and it would be a very different game. Recover the onside & catch the passes and it should be 7-7 not 14-0, capitalise on turnovers and we should have the lead, catch the 4th & 11 (which I agree with going for - but we wouldn't have if we'd had the lead) and we have a bigger lead. Go for it at the end of the first half instead of settling for a field goal and we could have been up 28-7 at half-time! Could have, should have, would have, eh?! Defence was sporadic, at times non-present, at other times stepping up for turnovers, red zone stops, and so on. On balance, I think the defence did (and does) enough to give us a chance. Offence looks fine when we pass (once the guys remember that you need to catch the ball!), dodgy as hell when we run bar a few exceptions. Cousins had another solid day. I think one day he could be talked about like Brady (but then I also thought Griffin was the beginning of a whole new period of Skins prosperity, maybe he was but we were looking at the wrong guy!). I also observed our play style is also very like the Patriots. Short plays, chipping away, taking the odd shot. So maybe Cousins being a Baby Brady is a good thing. My take away. I think we have done better when we go into pass mode. I think we should consider ditching our long time "run first" mentality and go for opening with the passing game, then run if we get a 14 point lead. If the defences switch to pass first then we can put the runs back in. When Jones is presented with holes he can open things up, but when there's no hole he's going nowhere fast. I think the "keep it balanced" concept is all good, but do what works first, then keep it balanced later.Until next week...sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Bottom line is that you were watching a Ferrari versus a Ford Pinto yesterday. Bye weeks are good in giving extra time to heal but teams can also come out so flat after them. Belichick knew that early onsides kick was an overall low risk move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Red Cloud and Larry Michael might be the only two people on this planet who think that we actually had a chance yesterday hahahahaha. To even be remotely competitive, the Skins had to play flawless. And that's even with the Patriots playing at a "C" level (if we're giving grades). They were doing what they wanted out there. Only thing I wanted was for the team to come away healthy and just get ready for the Saints. Yesterday, no matter how you slice it, or how you look at it through the B&G glasses, was an automatic L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think Doc hit on something about Kirk's avoidance in making those off-schedule plays that can turn a game around. Kirk and the staff is worried about all the chatter that will come up if Kirk throws interceptions. Rightly so because that's what people bring up ad nauseum. Even though Kirk looks different this year. So, it's time to cut ties with #10. They couldn't trade him and they won't be picking up that $16 million option next year either. Yes, if you cut him someone will pick him up but he hasn't shown the ability to quickly pick up an NFL offense so it's a chance worth taking. The running game has gone south for the winter. I didn't get to see the game but the stats show they only rushed for 37 yards on 15 carries. Which is slightly below 2.5 yards per carry. Alfred doesn't have the size to run thru a safety's tackle and Jones can't hold on to the ball. The # of drops was an anomaly. The receivers are pretty sure handed. I think cutting Robert would allow Kirk the psychological freedom to take some more chances. Or, we could just continue as is and get used to the remainder of the season being a safe, generic game plan. The identity of this offense is setting up the run with the pass. That's a reality. The fans can't have it both ways. You can't criticize Kirk for dinking and dunking out of one side of your mouth and then kill him when he throws too many interceptions out of the other side of your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFanInMinn Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Honestly I felt like the Pats put it cruise control after 14-0. I think if we'd have made it somewhat competitive they would've stepped on the gas and pulled away again. I never really had a feeling we were ever going to be a threat to them in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think Doc hit on something about Kirk's avoidance in making those off-schedule plays that can turn a game around. Kirk and the staff is worried about all the chatter that will come up if Kirk throws interceptions. Rightly so because that's what people bring up ad nauseum. Even though Kirk looks different this year. So, it's time to cut ties with #10. They couldn't trade him and they won't be picking up that $16 million option next year either. Yes, if you cut him someone will pick him up but he hasn't shown the ability to quickly pick up an NFL offense so it's a chance worth taking. Did Walker advocate cutting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Did Walker advocate cutting him? It was implied really. He did not come out and say it. But I think it's a valid point. The good thing about the way they're playing now is that a top 10 pick in the draft is looking pretty good. Which may be the way to go frankly because this team has a lot of needs. Even if the staff opened up the offense I'm not sure the defense could do their part. Barry's defense is regressing. I know he doesn't have the personnel he needs but since the Atlanta game the tackling has been abysmal. That's pretty disturbing. So, I'm not even sure that I want to see a change. Maybe they could squeeze out a few more wins and finish at 7 and 9. They would probably be vs division opponents. That may very well drop the team out of the top 10. So, I guess I'm content with the status quo. I'd prefer not to hear a lot of belly-aching though from fans who believe this team should be in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I will agree the offense never really got flowing (ugh the drops) and that Cousins and even pass protection looked good. But coming from a burgundy colored glasses homer... Our Defense is terrible and our run game is epically disgraceful. We would lose that game if NE had to start 1st and 15 the whole game. I never seen such poor efforts to shed blocking. If I were GMSM, I would apologize to fans about comments made that 'you'll know you played us'. BS, BS, BS. That D was ****footing all day long. Riley is terrible, our secondary is afraid of contact and the Dline that was going against Pats 3rd string got gashed and couldn't get pressure. PATHETIC. And, I;ve haven't even touched on the fact we're averaging about 1.4 yards per carry in the last 5 weeks. Serously, we must be on pace to set a record for most 1 yard carries or less for a year. PATHETIC. So, lets recap, we suck at D and running the ball... yea, we're going places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think the media in this town overrate their own influence. Oh, they were careful because they didn't want US talking about it. If that is true, Snyder should ban radios from the premises. I think it's ridiculous. (especially since all week long everyone in the media gave them no chance and essentially gave them a pass to lose as badly as they were expected to with no postgame bashing.) I think they were careful because A/ they convinced themselves all week they had to be perfect to even have a chance. They played with trepidation, trying not to make a mistake because they figured that making a mistake would give the most powerful offense in the league the ball back with short fields. No team that plays the pats thinks giving Brady the ball is a good idea. I have a feeling Chip Kelly will even try to slow it down. Above all , I believe the Redskins wanted long drives, and to not turn it over. B/ by nature Cousins is careful, especially after last year. He's learned the system and he stays in it. Firmly. f it isn't there, this year he isn't forcing it. He's checking down. C/ Up until the last NE touchdown, they were within striking distance of being IN the game almost all day.In most of their possessions if they score, they're right back in, so don't turn it over! was the likely mindset. the notion they were afraid of chirping by a media that is constantly on the rag anyway.. i find that to be highly doubtful. I'd be more likely to believe they were conservative because they did not trust their defense to hold if a mistake is made. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I agree with the OP, we would've had a shot were it not for the drops, the fumble, and the onside kick. Now before anyone accuses me of being a homer, think about what I just said: we had to be mistake-free to even have a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree with the OP, we would've had a shot were it not for the drops, the fumble, and the onside kick. Now before anyone accuses me of being a homer, think about what I just said: we had to be mistake-free to even have a shot. I think without the mistakes we would have scored more points but then the Pats would have just ramped it up offensively and scored more. They basically just went into cruise control in the 2nd half. So instead of 27-10 without the mistakes we're looking at something like...42-21. Which honestly I would have preferred. If we're gonna lose at least lets lose scoring some damn points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Bottom line is that you were watching a Ferrari versus a Ford Pinto yesterday. Ferrari vs a three wheeled skateboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Haha, yes I am probably deluded and wearing Burgundy tinted spectacles! I think it's a fair comment, the Pats probably went into cruise control. And I totally agree with Warhead36, I would have far rather had 42-21, at least we could have some self respect from that! But given the onside kick which shows they are happy to kick a man when he's down if it's going to get a win, I think the Patriots would have happily beaten us 62-0 just to prove a point, so I am not totally convinced they went into cruise control. I suppose they wouldn't have kicked the field goal at the end of the first half, and they would have gone for the run game a bit less, but then the run game seemed to be netting them 10 yards a carry, so why stop?! I note they are currently ranked 26th in rush yards, they were probably 32nd before we gifted them 161 yards to up their average considerably...What really depresses me this year is last year we could run the ball, but not pass it, this year we can pass it but not run. Can we have both please?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree with the OP, we would've had a shot were it not for the drops, the fumble, and the onside kick. Now before anyone accuses me of being a homer, think about what I just said: we had to be mistake-free to even have a shot. i hate people that accuse people of being a "homer". even if one is that, so the **** what? its his or her own choice to think the team will win each game of the season!! that shouldnt bother anyone. people are lame. for the record, i was expecting us to lose badly, cause its the patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Boo hoo hoo. We lost. Get over it. We got 8 more games. Spilt milk...and we saw the glass getting knocked over before Sunday. We need to play mistake free football to beat a very good team, we did not do that. Game over. You can't change the past only the future... and that is to include the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Boo hoo hoo. We lost. Get over it. We got 8 more games. Spilt milk...and we saw the glass getting knocked over before Sunday. We need to play mistake free football to beat a very good team, we did not do that. Game over. You can't change the past only the future... and that is to include the fans Some people deal with losses in different ways. You might get over it and start thinking of the next game, but others might be sad until Wednesday. Although I don't think the OP was exactly complaining about the loss. Just offering ways that we could have won. Thats different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 But given the onside kick which shows they are happy to kick a man when he's down if it's going to get a win, I think the Patriots would have happily beaten us 62-0 just to prove a point, so I am not totally convinced they went into cruise control. OK, no one has called the Patriots classless jackasses more than me since their "let's humiliate the league" tour of 07. But complaining about a team trying to get the ball back when up 7-0 in the 1st quarter is beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 But given the onside kick which shows they are happy to kick a man when he's down if it's going to get a win, I think the Patriots would have happily beaten us 62-0 just to prove a point, so I am not totally convinced they went into cruise control. That's what they do; the very first thing they want is to get into their opponents heads, psyche them out before they hit the field. The onside kick early was a jab at getting under their skin and it worked; the sad part was our coaching staff didn't have the ST players prepared to deal with it. They have really 2 jobs in getting the ball; block for our returner and recover onside kicks. Every single one of those players on the front line should be anticipating an onside kick on every single kick-off, but they just go through the motions, and it came up and bit em in the ass. The entire team needs to be chewed on while in the game; Gruden should be much more vocal and emotional towards these players; throw a clipboard down, yell at a player, SOMETHING, because the Tom Landry statuesque posture isn't getting through the players. And, not to stir anything, but I'd like to see KC be more vocal on the players; get on them, get them motivated to play harder, but he's too calm and quiet. The product put on the field this past sunday isn't the Redskins; they are better than that, but it will take lighting a fire under their butts to get results, and if a player is too sensitive to be told the truth that he is stinking up the joint then maybe he shouldn't be on the damn field. I'd guess one last thing; open the playbook and start from the last page and work backwards, because it seems teams kinda have an idea of whats coming; not sure if that's from script or just Gruden/McVay calling the same crap week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sorry to ruffle any feathers, but if you want to cry about them kicking an onside kick.. suck it up, buttercup,, that's football. They are under no obligation to EVER let us have the ball if they can keep it. Ever. They put a defense out there for the express purpose of taking the ball back, be it through a takeaway or forcing a punt. The onside kick hit one of our wide receivers dead in the hands and he dropped it. Who's fault it that? is it the patriots fault for realizing that ryan grant has lousy hands and will likely hand them the ball if they kick it RIGHT to him? May as well blame them for putting out defensive backs who will try to intercept a pass. IF they did it to try and limit our offense, then take that as a compliment. If they did it to keep our defense on the field and gas them out in the first quarter, then Ryan Grant BETTER field a ball that hits him dead in the breadbasket. Both reasons are great reasons to take the risk, and make no mistake it is a risk for the Patriots to try it. there is no guarantee they get it back, in fact the odds are against them. The Patriots gambled and won on a play that could have blown up in their face. And that is not in any way them "running it up" or 'disrespecting" us.. respect is earned. "kicking a man when he's down" is FOOTBALL. Thy lost their right tackle, played a TE there. Should we have backed off to be "fair"? Should we have tried like hell to kick them right in the weakness it presented? We should have loaded it up and tried like hell to rub that weakness right in their faces. Unfortunately, Murphy can't beat his own grandma into the backfield. Exploit weakness. That is what their job is. That is entirely what a game-plan is for.. it tries to create weaknesses to exploit with your strengths. They thought they saw it, and bet they could get an onside kick and put us in a position to make our offense one-dimensional. And they did. And the fault is ours. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 "kicking a man when he's down" is FOOTBALL. I agree with you Bang.........but you posted before the game that in 2007, Belichick ran the score up on Gibbs "for no apparent reason." Granted, going for it on 4th down when you're up 38-0 is certainly a different situation than an onside kick at 7-0, but still......buttercup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Bang is spot on in this thread...everything seemed safe and timid against New England. I believe in that theory that the team felt it needed to be perfect. Even the onside kick recovery attempt by Grant looked timid. He didn't go attack it and secure the ball. He laid down and waited for it to hop into his arms. I don't know if every drop can be blamed on trying to be too perfect, but I'd love to have seen how uncomfortable we could have made the Pats if we had played better. Full disclosure, I do believe that if we were challenging them, they'd have been more aggressive themselves. I don't think that they laid off the gas necessarily, but I think they may have lost a bit of focus once it was 14-0 or 17-0. Had we ever truly been within a touchdown, I think Brady gets that offense in the end zone on the very next drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree with you Bang.........but you posted before the game that in 2007, Belichick ran the score up on Gibbs "for no apparent reason." Granted, going for it on 4th down when you're up 38-0 is certainly a different situation than an onside kick at 7-0, but still......buttercup Well, i am definitely a buttercup on that one. It's one thing to gamble early in a game.. it's another to go for it on 4th down up by 45 with only a minute or so to go. I'm not one that thinks they should take a knee, but kick the damn field goal. And, i can also see the side of it that says "stop them if you don't want your nose rubbed in it". ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Honestly I felt like the Pats put it cruise control after 14-0. I think if we'd have made it somewhat competitive they would've stepped on the gas and pulled away again. I never really had a feeling we were ever going to be a threat to them in that game. get that you felt that way ... but the Pats don't have cruise control ... they don't play the back-ups once they have a lead ... they don't insult your manhood by not playing their best ... it sucks when they run the score up on you ... but personally I always found it less insulting to have the opposition continue to play their best and leave it to you to do your best. So ... you may have felt it ... but it didn't happen. I respect the Patriots ... there was one and only one time I didn't and it was in a game against the Redskins ... the Pats were killing us ... that's our fault and I'm OK with that ... but then Brady did something dishonorable and disgraceful as far as I'm concerned ... leading by a ton (really doesn't matter), late in the game (doesn't matter either) in the red zone he faked intentional grounding then threw into the endzone. So ... back to the feeling that they let up ... yah ... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 get that you felt that way ... but the Pats don't have cruise control ... they don't play the back-ups once they have a lead ... they don't insult your manhood by not playing their best ... it sucks when they run the score up on you ... but personally I always found it less insulting to have the opposition continue to play their best and leave it to you to do your best. So ... you may have felt it ... but it didn't happen. Oddly, I think they got complacent more than intentionally letting their foot off the gas. I would be willing to bet that Belichick was pretty disappointed in their performance on Sunday. He should look at the missed opportunities in the red zone (short FGs and a turnover) and use it as a teaching point for his team. But, I agree with others that had we put up a few more points, the Patriots would have likely been jolted out of their slumber a bit. I saw there being two different "alternate outcomes" to that game: #1 - If we don't shoot ourselves in the foot right from jump street (muffing the onside kick, dropping passes that would have flipped the field or put us in scoring position, etc.), I think we score with NE in the first half and they get knocked back a little on their heels. It wouldn't have surprised me if we go into halftime tied or within 3 under those circumstances. From there, who knows what happens and maybe we have a shot down the stretch. #2 - If the first half played out as it did (17-3) and Jones doesn't fumble immediately following that nice pass/catch by Cousins/Garcon to put us in NE territory, I think we have a shot to get a TD and pull to within 7 before NE gets the ball back. In essence, we would have done exactly what BB likes doing when he defers after winning the toss (scoring on consecutive drives). [Quick aside, I'm convinced that's why he tried for an onside kick...if we robbed him of his chance to consecutive possessions, he was going to steal it back from us somehow.] Back to my alternate history - if we do pull within 7 in the 3rd, I have a feeling the Pats wake up and grind to another TD on the next possession. Not sure why, but I never really got the sense (given how the first half played out) that they would ever really allow us to challenge to win the game. So in summary, if we gained confidence early and punched them in the mouth right off the bat, I think we could have hung around. Otherwise, I think any type of move on our end would have been met with a counter that would have put us right back at arm's length. Something to consider with a team that has much higher aspirations than a November win...they benefit from doing the least amount possible to win any given game to keep things off tape. So, I have no doubt that they could have pulled out a couple things from their bag of tricks if they ever felt like the game was slipping away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm not sure I understand the thread title. what does baby brady mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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