Cousins Is The Man

[ThomasRoane]

That doesn't mean it's impossible, but saying NFL scouts don't know how to scout QB's and then saying rarities like Brady prove that is nuts. They miss a lot in the first round because due to the importance of the position, they swing a lot in the first round. But most of their swings encompass most of the realistic franchise QB possibilities out there.

 

NFL QB is the hardest position to master in sports.  The amount of busts and failures bear that out.  Scouts can figure out character and measurables but until that player begins to take snaps in the NFL and have to respond to how NFL DC's disect their game like surgeons then you won't know if you have a good one or not.  If a scout could tell you that then he'd be worth his weight in gold.  But none of them know for sure whether or not a college kid can adjust to the pro game.  They could take the position and run with it like a Kurt Warner (from the Arena Football League) or they could eat themselves out of the position like Jamarcus Russell. 

 

Picking the right QB is an empirical process.  The number of misses proves my point that prognostication about a players floor or ceiling is pure folly.  The best an evaluator can say is "I think he can be like ______."  Then you can slide the metric up or down after you see them play to see if they can surpass _______ or will be somewhat less talented than _______.

[DJHJR86]

I don't really get the "draft the QB of the future" argument.  It rarely works.  Since 2010, not counting Winston or Mariota, the following top 5 QB's taken in every draft are still starting on teams: Sam Bradford (but for how long), Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, Ryan Tannehill, Blake Bortles, and Derek Carr.  With the exception of Newton, Dalton, and Luck, the remaining QB's are still huge question marks.  It's always been a crap shoot.

[Taylor703]

Russell Wilson and I guess Colin Kaepernick count as well. Plenty of teams around the league have draft their starting QB. As a matter for fact drafting your franchise guy has always been the best way to go. There's going to be hit or miss with every transaction though no matter how the player is acquired.

[TheGreek1973]

TheGreek

-What exactly are you arguing? When did anybody say you couldn't praise Cousins? And as far as the 4K yards after 4 games, 2013 was the last time you could say that. But please, let's not go down that road TG73. Let's just hope Kirk builds off the momentum he created for himself in this last game and has himself a good season.

I guess I am arguing the notion that since evaluators have not given him a high grade out of college he can't be a good QB in the league.  That is how I read your post, if that's not what you implied and I misunderstood, I apologize.    

 

Certainly we all hope KC is that guy because if we have to draft QB again it is going to set us back without a guarantee that the choice is going to work out.

 

There is one thing that has me very encouraged about KC and that is he doesn't take sacks or huge hits easily.  If there is one thing that destroys a QBs development and confidence is many hits early on their career.  Once a QB starts "hearing" footsteps IMO he is done in this league.

[IrepDC]

Kirk reminds me of Hasselback in Indy. That offense was struggling with Luck, a combination of an average OL and a QB that holds the ball to try and make plays, but when a QB like Hasselback who gets the ball out of his hands fast came in, their offense turned around. Also, as many predicted, their offense had to change when Hasselback came in, and instead of riding the QB, the Colts have been creative with getting the ball into their playmakers hands(more bootlegs, moving the pocket, quick passes and reads).

That's similar to our situation here and why Kirk has excelled. He doesn't try to make the big plays and gets the ball out fast. Our offense also became more methodical and based around quick passes, bootlegs off the running game, and getting the ball into our playmakers hands. Similar to Indy, it's helped our OL look a lot better.

[Cliffmark1]

I'm sure Alfred has already exceeded his ceiling ha. For a qb I'd rather have Brees than rivers even though I'm sure rivers had a projected higher ceiling.

Kirk reminds me of Hasselback in Indy. That offense was struggling with Luck, a combination of an average OL and a QB that holds the ball to try and make plays, but when a QB like Hasselback who gets the ball out of his hands fast came in, their offense turned around. Also, as many predicted, their offense had to change when Hasselback came in, and instead of riding the QB, the Colts have been creative with getting the ball into their playmakers hands(more bootlegs, moving the pocket, quick passes and reads).

That's similar to our situation here and why Kirk has excelled. He doesn't try to make the big plays and gets the ball out fast. Our offense also became more methodical and based around quick passes, bootlegs off the running game, and getting the ball into our playmakers hands. Similar to Indy, it's helped our OL look a lot better.

If you hit a bunch of short routes runs the deep plays will open up.

[PeterMP]

I don't really get the "draft the QB of the future" argument.  It rarely works.  Since 2010, not counting Winston or Mariota, the following top 5 QB's taken in every draft are still starting on teams: Sam Bradford (but for how long), Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, Ryan Tannehill, Blake Bortles, and Derek Carr.  With the exception of Newton, Dalton, and Luck, the remaining QB's are still huge question marks.  It's always been a crap shoot.

 

Taking any player at any position in the NFL draft, including the top 5 is a crap shoot.

 

The thing with the QB is when it does work out, it tends to work out really well.  You get players that play large chunks of time for the team that drafted them and lot's of winning seasons.

 

Realistically, QB is the most important position in the NFL.

[bird_1972]

Yeah I said the same thing.

 

The vast majority of QBs in the league are game managers(if they don't completely suck that is). I mean how many superstar elite QBs are there? Like, 4, 5 tops? And even those guys don't have an insanely higher amount of Super Bowl victories than their game manager counterparts. Rodgers has just one ring. P. Manning one. Brees one. Brady is the exception with four, but his first three he was, as you said, a game manager.

 

Yeah I said the same thing.

 

The vast majority of QBs in the league are game managers(if they don't completely suck that is). I mean how many superstar elite QBs are there? Like, 4, 5 tops? And even those guys don't have an insanely higher amount of Super Bowl victories than their game manager counterparts. Rodgers has just one ring. P. Manning one. Brees one. Brady is the exception with four, but his first three he was, as you said, a game manager.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

I had a debate with my buddy who thinks having an elite QB is more valueable than having an elite D in terms of success at the championship level. Not surprisingly, elite D is way more predictive of SB champs than elite QBs. I say that for the fans, having an elite QB makes the season more fun to watch, but if you want a championship team, you're better off chopping away at building an elite, nasty D.

 

The Scot is likely to build the team on a foundation of a (hopefully) elite D. That gives me optimism for the future. No more stupid trading of multiple high round picks for a possible elite QB. Doesn't make sense to do so.

[DJHJR86]

Cooley seems to think that they aren't opening the offense up with Kirk (running read option plays, draws, etc.) because Robert remains on the roster.  Basically said that they don't want to risk Kirk being hurt for a game or two because they don't want to hear the noise that would come along with a returning Kirk vs. Robert.  I don't buy it.

[Peregrine]

I think the reason everyone thinks that an elite QB is the key, is because they want to believe that it is, and they want to believe that there are plenty of them out there.  Why do they want to believe those two things?  Because quite simply finding one guy seems much better than finding 11 guys, what you need for an elite defense.

[William Barbour]

I don't really understand the statement. "Till Scot gets his guys at HC and QB"

Gruden has changed his offense significantly to adjust to the players Scot is bringing in. How are we so sure that Gruden and Scot are not on the same page? Is that just a hypothetical belief that some of our fans want to believe because they think another "fresh start" after 20 years of them and losing is somehow going to bring more wins?

We are 2-2. Already showing improvement winning divisional games, being competitive, and 1 win away from last year's total in week 5. I think it's impressive with what Gruden has done every week gameplanning wise and playcalling considering the injuries we've had in key parts of the offense.

Enough blabbering though. Kirk should be given the full year no matter what happens. He played great on Sunday and showed the poise we've been looking for at that position. Let's continue to build a team around him.

[ThomasRoane]

Let me correct you and this is my problem, Kirk did not lead the team 90 yards down the field. Alfred Morris had two huge running plays that got this team out of a hole. I gave Kirk all the credit in the world for the td pass but let us not kid ourselves as this fan base always do and jump the gun.

 

I already addressed the two big plays by Alfred.  Prior to that his avg per carry was slightly over 2 yards.  Gruden and McVay started allowing Kirk to check more to pass plays on first down.  That caused the Eagles to move Jenkins (the SS) out of the box.  Look at the all 22 and you'll see both of Alfred's runs were vs 7 in the box. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Shanny at this point has tripled down on Kirk -- in the past its been Kirk is a franchise QB, also top 10 QB, today it was he is a Super Bowl QB (in his words he's good enough to win a Superbowl with the Redskins) and he followed it up by saying that's as a good as a complement as he can give a QB.   This time he talked about his makeup, said he's a leader in the locker room. 

[W. Unseld]

Where do you get access to the all 22 NFL footage?

 

I like Cousins and I don't mind Shanny as much as most but sometimes I wonder about the motivations for those statements.

[Skinsinparadise]

Where do you get access to the all 22 NFL footage?

 

I like Cousins and I don't mind Shanny as much as most but sometimes I wonder about the motivations for those statements.

 

for all 22, you can get it for a subscription on nfl.com

[ThomasRoane]

for all 22, you can get it for a subscription on nfl.com

 

Well worth it for X&O geeks.

 

http://www.nfl.com/coachesfilm

[abdcskins]

As funny as it sounds, I feel like Cousins has had more good performances this year than RG3 (are we even allowed to mention him anymore?) did the past two years.  He looks much more poised and delivers sharp passes with a zip. 

[Taylor703]

As funny as it sounds, I feel like Cousins has had more good performances this year than RG3 (are we even allowed to mention him anymore?) did the past two years. He looks much more poised and delivers sharp passes with a zip.

Let's not start this back up.

[abdcskins]

Let's not start this back up.

 

Okay.

As I recall you were a staunch supporter of RG3.  We may have even gotten into it a few times.

 

Whatever, water under the bridge. 

[Jumbo]

Ok (again) and this comes from the entire staff:

 

 

1. Heads up---drop the same ole rg3 stuff. At this point, if you're a "familiar player" (or even otherwise) you are vulnerable to being temp banned or having your posting restricted in various manners for doing any OT rg3 stuff in any thread. And at the stage we're in after many months, just about all rg3 stuff is OT/distraction in every thread. 

 

2. Save replying to "Grave of Being" (dupe acct. permabanned). 

 

3. Taylor703---the other day I typed a post to reign you in for choosing to get after veryoldschool, but I held back hoping it would drop. It didn't, and you've done such "policing" with other posters on this issue over recent weeks. Even now you're still commenting on how other people comment on QBs. You need to just stop it, amigo.  

 

It begs to be said that it is really ridiculous of you, given your history on this matter, even though you gave some decent advice to him. You're a good guy and a usually fine poster over the years. I personally like you as an ES'er, and we have had (too) many in-thread exchanges on what has become for you, like some others here, a seeming fetish and actual board issue. You seem to get it at times and then, there it goes again. 

 

Generally speaking, the level of hypocrisy in this matter is enormous among the more fixated/biased on either end of that old saw and has been for a long time.

 

The single biggest standout of this is the guys who made literally hundreds of rg3 posts where they bent over backwards to make excuses for the guy at every opportunity in every topic in every thread for many months, while to this day still being more (often WAY more) demanding/begrudging with kirk or with matters regarding Jay. This hypocrisy factor certainly does include the smaller but just as <insert unflattering term> contingent of negatively biased rg3-fixated critics who fall over over themselves for Kirk, while they continuously slammed rg3 hard, and at the drop of a tweet. 

 

Anyhoo.

 

The staff will continue to deal with all of this as deemed necessary for the best of the board. 

 

To all: when it comes to board management by moderators, cooperation makes us smile, obstruction makes you gone.

 

As most, if not all, know by now, it is not going to be your actual opinion on any topic that will incur a posting restriction, only conduct in the expression of those opinions that violates our rules and guidelines.

 

Any reply to this post can be made in the feedback forum, don't post it in the thread.

 

 

Back to discussing Kirk Cousins.   

[Veryoldschool]

Shanny at this point has tripled down on Kirk -- in the past its been Kirk is a franchise QB, also top 10 QB, today it was he is a Super Bowl QB (in his words he's good enough to win a Superbowl with the Redskins) and he followed it up by saying that's as a good as a complement as he can give a QB. This time he talked about his makeup, said he's a leader in the locker room.

He's definitely a really effective leader and now that he's the starter he must feel free to let his natural leadership attributes come to the fore. Here is a speech he made his senior year at the conference luncheon.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tp15N9BbYgY

[Skinsinparadise]

He's definitely a really effective leader and now that he's the starter he must feel free to let his natural leadership attributes come to the fore. Here is a speech he made his senior year at the conference luncheon.

 

This is a good one too, Kirk interviewed by Jon Jansen of all people, talking about leadership

 

[Jumbo]

It's---wait for it---too early   for me to be real assured that he's a leader in the Redskins context. The guys seem to like him fine, and we already know where the coaches stand. So far, not bad is what I'd call it---and maybe even a little better than saying "about what I expected if things even just went ok".  But I can't think past what I see as most likely a major downturn, Sunday.

[Wyvern]

...But I can't think past what I see as most likely a major downturn, Sunday.

Sadly, I agree. Cousins will be going into this game with a lot fewer weapons than he's enjoyed in the past. Jackson, Reed, Paul, Roberts were starters in several of the early season receiving corps packages. It's not clear how much the O-line's run blocking and pass protection will miss Lauvao. And even Garçon is a little dinged up.

What really scares me is the Skind defensive secondary -- the front seven going to needs to be awesome this week to prevent the Falcons from jumping out to an early, big lead thanks to the Ryan to Jones combo.

If Ryan and Jones have monster days -- Cousins will probably not be able to rely on a ball-control, ground-based attack to keep the game close. Rather, Kirk may be asked to put it in the air 40-50 a LOT! When you do that, the chances of something going wrong (int, sack/fumble, other turnovers) really go up. These are not favorable conditions -- especially when you figure this is an away game too.

I hope folks keep somewhat "medium" about Cousins -- at this stage he manages the offense fairly well, stays gritty under duress, and shows he can be both courageous and accurate in passing into tight coverage. But if Cousins has a "bad" game... We can expect to see a lot of folks calling for Cousins' head.

I hope that doesn't happen, because I think Cousins will pan out into a decent QB, given time and a decent supporting cast.

[Koolblue13]

Everyone seems to like him. He's bossy and commanding. He is constantly putting people in the right position.

It's impressive that someone with that personality, can sit patiently on the bench and stay positive for so long.