The Gun Control Debate Thread

[mammajamma]

last night i watched the new doc "they're trying to kill us" (highly recommended), and learned that there are 20,000+ more gun shops in america (60k+) than grocery stores (40k), and gunshops more than double grocery stores in low-income areas. this country is so broken

Edited November 12, 2021 by mammajamma

[China]

Police killing of Colorado 'hero' illustrates issues cops face in regulating concealed guns

 

The police killing of a Colorado man praised as a hero for preventing a mass shooting earlier this year illustrates how laws that allow the concealed or open carry of guns in public complicate police response to shootings.

 

Police say that John Hurley, 40, confronted Ronald Troyke after he shot and killed Officer Gordon Beesley in the west Denver suburb of Arvada. Investigators recovered a document written by Troyke with statements revealing his intent to kill police officers, including, "Today I will kill as many Arvada officers as I possibly can."

The local prosecutor announced last week that responding Arvada Police Officer Kraig Brownlow will not face criminal charges for fatally shooting Hurley, who was holding a handgun and Troyke's AR-15 when Brownlow shot and killed him.

 

In a letter laying out their decision, prosecutors said that while Hurley's acts "were nothing short of heroic," the facts from Brownlow's point of view show that he did not know or could not have known of officer's death or of Hurley's "role in eliminating the threat" posed by Troyke.

The incident underscores how laws allowing people who legally own a firearm to carry it openly in public or carry it in a concealed manner, pose an increased risk to public safety.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[tshile]

Yup. 
 

you guys have always joked about people who carry guns thinking they’ll stop a shooter and how they’re likely to be shot by the police show up and mistake them. And I, and I believe some others, responded by saying yup, it’s a risk you take. 
 

it’s a risk you accept when you carry. Just like you accept you might make a bad decision, thinking you’re right, and wind up in jail. It’s part of the deal. 
 

which is why picking up the dudes at-15 and holding it was dumb. Once he’s down you put your gun away and stand like a statue with your hands up when they show up, pray they don’t shoot you, and just go with the flow. You can explain who you are and what happened once the police feel they’ve secured the area and everyone’s emotions come down a few notches. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[China]

Another somebody who knows what guns are for:

 

Police: Knoxville man demands pizza with AK-47

 

A Knoxville man could face decades in prison after he allegedly held employees of a Little Caesar’s restaurant at gunpoint with an AK-47 after being told it would take 10 minutes to make his pizza.

 

Officers responded to the store on Cedar Bluff Rd around 9 p.m. Friday where witnesses said the suspect, later identified as Charles Doty Jr. became angry after being told about the wait and asked for free breadsticks. An incident report states he then left the store to wait and returned with an AK-47 in hand, demanding the pizza immediately.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

OK, this is getting absurd.

 

Estancia requires 'armed' meetings in response to new Roundhouse rules

 

 If you want to attend a town hall meeting in Estancia, you're going to have to be armed.

 

The new rule was approved during a meeting last week by town leaders and now they could be hit with a lawsuit for it.

 

"In order to attend an Estancia town meeting, one must be legally armed,” said Estancia Mayor Nathan Dial. 

 

Dial proposed the rule at their last meeting – it passed by a 3-2 margin, with Dial as the deciding vote.  

 

 "This rule is in direct response to what the state did,” said Dial. 

 

Dial said after it was decided that lawmakers couldn't carry in the Roundhouse, he wanted to implement the exact opposite.

 

“It's designed so those who want to have guns can't be told by the state that this rule applies to municipal levels. As shock value, I wrote it very vague."

 

The way it is written, Dial says the term "legally armed" is very much up to interpretation. 

 

"You can come with the knowledge to fight for what you want, that's armed," Dial said.

 

While the majority in attendance were in favor of the rule, there was some pushback, including from the town clerk.

 

"I think to say it this way is not in the best interest of the town."

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TheGreatBuzz]

@Dont Taze Me Bro  Why do you want this closed?  I think it is a good thread.

[tshile]

Cause we don’t really discuss gun control anymore? Haven’t for a while? It’s basically just a “dumb person with gun <did something>“ aggregator 

 

I’m not saying it should be closed but I think that’s why one might think it should be. 

[China]

There's much more posted in here than that, and if that's all you (generically, not you specifically) see, maybe it reflects what is seen in society, a lot of stupid people with guns.

 

e.g., The article at the top of the page is something not in that category.

 

Also, inevitably there will be another mass shooting, at which point this thread needs to be open for the spillover conversation that always occurs regarding gun control.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[tshile]

24 minutes ago, China said:

There's much more posted in here than that, and if that's all you (generically, not you specifically) see, maybe it reflects what is seen in society, a lot of stupid people with guns.

Well. As someone who reads the thread almost every time it’s bumped. It kinda seems like actual gun control is rarely if ever discussed 

 

I don’t care either way. Maybe I’m recalling it incorrectly. 

2 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

If you watched the legal eagle episode on rittenhouse there’s, well a ton, on the WI self defense laws. 
 

in this scenario the original aggressor fled the scene. So the original victim, by following her home, becomes the aggressor and she becomes able to legally defend herself. Since he was armed she’s allowed to use deadly force to defend herself. 
 

he becomes the aggressor and unable to use deadly force even though she is armed. 
 

so he should be charged with murder. 
 

this is according to me watching a 25 minute YouTube video. 

[tshile]

Oh. Pro tip:

if you see someone is following you the best thing you can do is not go home but instead call 911 and drive around until the police show up. 

[China]

58 minutes ago, tshile said:

Oh. Pro tip:

if you see someone is following you the best thing you can do is not go home but instead call 911 and drive around until the police show up. 

 

Or drive to the police station.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

14 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

@Dont Taze Me Bro  Why do you want this closed?  I think it is a good thread.

 

Because it's transformed into endless articles about gun violence and almost zero discussion regarding actual gun control.  Honestly, I think the thread has run its course on what I created it for.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

41 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Because it's transformed into endless articles about gun violence and almost zero discussion regarding actual gun control.  Honestly, I think the thread has run its course on what I created it for.  

I think we should keep threads for major topics.  Discussion will wax and wane.  But it shouldn’t be closed.  That is just my opinion though.  It’s not my decision.

[Larry]

3 hours ago, China said:

Also, inevitably there will be another mass shooting, at which point this thread needs to be open for the spillover conversation that always occurs regarding gun control.

Admiring the way that it's been decided that talking about gun control after a mass shooting becomes "Spillover. Must be segregated into a different thread. (Which we created knowing in advance that there was going to be another one, and the planned response.)"

[CousinsCowgirl84]

ST. LOUIS (KMOV) - A 2-year-old boy accidentally shot his father in the back and killed him, St. Louis police say.

The incident happened around 8:40 p.m. Saturday. Police found the victim, reportedly a man in his 20s, unconscious and not breathing. He was later pronounced dead.

Authorities say the victim’s 2-year-old son was handling a rifle when it went off.

Homicide detectives are investigating.

Police say there was also a woman in the home when the shooting happened. It is unclear whether she will face any charges.

 

 

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/11/22/toddler-with-rifle-fatally-shoots-father-police-say/

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

6 hours ago, tshile said:

Oh. Pro tip:

if you see someone is following you the best thing you can do is not go home but instead call 911 and drive around until the police show up. 

Unless you are the one who provoked the entire situation by intentionally running someone over in which case you got some 'splainin to do...

[Ball Security]

3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

ST. LOUIS (KMOV) - A 2-year-old boy accidentally shot his father in the back and killed him, St. Louis police say.

The incident happened around 8:40 p.m. Saturday. Police found the victim, reportedly a man in his 20s, unconscious and not breathing. He was later pronounced dead.

Authorities say the victim’s 2-year-old son was handling a rifle when it went off.

Homicide detectives are investigating.

Police say there was also a woman in the home when the shooting happened. It is unclear whether she will face any charges.

 

 

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/11/22/toddler-with-rifle-fatally-shoots-father-police-say/

 

 

Man, that’s cold that she’s blaming her two year old after she shot her man in the back.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Unless you are the one who provoked the entire situation by intentionally running someone over in which case you got some 'splainin to do...

Yeah I’d argue she’d been better off going to the police anyways. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Larry said:

Admiring the way that it's been decided that talking about gun control after a mass shooting becomes "Spillover. Must be segregated into a different thread. (Which we created knowing in advance that there was going to be another one, and the planned response.)"

Well if not then every shooting thread becomes nothing but the same people having the same argument and you have to wade through it (sometimes pages of it) to get posts with info. 
 

@China’s right I hadn’t considered that part. It’s necessary it stay open just for that. 
 

you can’t even change the thread title or else it doesn’t serve its purpose. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Man, that’s cold that she’s blaming her two year old after she shot her man in the back.

I thought a two year old firing a rifle was suspect 

[Riggo-toni]

The only way to stop a bad 2 year old with a gun is a good two year old with a gun....

[China]

How US gun culture stacks up with the world

 

Atlanta. Orlando. Las Vegas. Newtown. Parkland. San Bernardino.

 

Ubiquitous gun violence in the United States has left few places unscathed over the decades. Still, many Americans hold their right to bear arms, enshrined in the US Constitution, as sacrosanct. But critics of the Second Amendment say that right threatens another: The right to life.

America's relationship to gun ownership is unique, and its gun culture is a global outlier.

As the tally of gun-related deaths continue to grow daily, here's a look at how gun culture in the US compares to the rest of the world.

 

How firearm ownership compares globally

The United States is the only nation in the world where civilian guns outnumber people.

 

Select a country or territory to see how its gun ownership rate compares to the US

 

There are 120 guns for every 100 Americans, according to the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey (SAS). No other nation has more civilian guns than people.

The Falkland Islands -- a British territory in the southwest Atlantic Ocean, claimed by Argentina and the subject of a 1982 war -- is home to the world's second-largest stash of civilian guns per capita. But with an estimated 62 guns per 100 people, its gun ownership rate is almost half that of the US. Yemen -- a country in the throes of a seven-year conflict -- has the third-highest gun ownership rate at 53 guns per 100 people.

While the exact number of civilian-owned firearms is difficult to calculate due to a variety of factors -- including unregistered weapons, the illegal trade and global conflict -- SAS researchers estimate that Americans own 393 million of the 857 million civilian guns available, which is around 46% of the world's civilian gun cache.

About 44% of US adults live in a household with a gun, and about one-third own one personally, according to an October 2020 Gallup survey.

Some nations have high gun ownership due to illegal stocks from past conflicts or lax restrictions on ownership, but the US is one of only three countries in the world where bearing (or keeping) arms is a constitutional right, according to Zachary Elkins, associate professor of government at the University of Texas at Austin and director of the Comparative Constitutions Project. Yet the ownership rate in the other two -- Guatemala and Mexico -- is almost a tenth of the United States.

 

In the US, firearm manufacturing is on the rise, with more Americans buying guns.

In 2018, gun makers produced 9 million firearms in the country -- more than double the amount manufactured in 2008, according to the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). More recently, January 2021 marked the biggest annual increase since 2013 in requests for federal background checks necessary for purchasing a gun -- a nearly 60% jump from January 2020.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Gun ownership in the country is absurd and excessive, but nothing will be done about it because of lobbies like the NRA and spineless politicians.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Nevermind.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Burgold]

I suspect one of the reasons you don’t see posters discussing gun control strategy is fatigue or despair. 
 

Churches are shot up. Schools are shot up. 60,000 per year commit suicide by fire arm. The only reactions have been to loosen gun regulations and defund mental health care. 
 

So, instead of a policy thread you get a thread full of examples of why we need gun control. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Burgold