Watch The Tape

[jflow78]

jflow, is it counting fumbles as turnovers, regardless of if they were lost or not.

True, I was counting all fumbles. I consider the player's mistake being that he put the ball on the ground, NOT whether or not someone else happened to be nearby and pick it up first. After the ball is on the ground, it's pretty much out of your control. If you don't lose it, you got lucky. However, I counted all fumbles for both Griffin and Cousins, so I'd say that's as fair as I can get.

 

Ever see him run for extended period in game...he comes up gimpy without being hit...PS- And we are playing some decent preseason football. Just saying

I agree with you, it's sad to see the team give up on him, but at the same time it's nice to stop hoping without seeing much to give credibility to that hope.

 

I haven't noticed him come up gimpy, but I have noticed he doesn't run like a rag doll anymore. I remember all of us having a long discussion about how, when he runs, he wasn't very compact, just sort of all over the place. Now, you don't see that, and I don't know if that was by design or because, like you're saying, he's just not back to himself.

...Pray for Kirk now who is apparently a top 10 QB, who knew. ....

Honestly, I wish Mike would just move on to something else. Every time I hear he or Kyle say something about the Skins I know it's either going to be ridiculous or it's going to blow up another story in the media.

[Peregrine]

Tape tells you the past, it doesnt tell you the future, though it often hints at it.  The biggest issue I have with the treatment of the QBs is that young QBs often have big issues that have to be sorted out.  Almost none are ready for the NFL in their first 2 years.  As a young QB with major struggles, he needed to be given the opportunity to PLAY IT OUT, and see if he could develop past it, and he didnt get that.  Kirk didnt get that last year. NONE of our young QBs get that.  

 

What absolutely needs to happen is that if Kirk is the guy this year, he needs to be allowed to play it out, and not have to worry about the famous Gruden Quick Hook.  Even if he sucks for 4 weeks, you have to let him play it out, and maybe it clicks in week 6.  Young QBs need to develop, they all have big issues to sort, and we havent allowed that.  Im hoping that changes this year.

[Burgold]

 But he is better than our 1st round superstar ended up being.

It's not even about who's better. It's about team. The team chose. The coach named his guy and the GM backed it. He needs to be the guy. The yo-yoing is not healthy.

 

I'm unconvinced that Cousins is the best QB (long term.) I really think that they had similar games Cleveland v. Baltimore. Someone even pointed out that Cleveland has a better defense these days which surprised me.  That doesn't matter. Watching the tape doesn't matter really. What matters is that they are right. If they give Cousins two games or three and then put Robert back in the message that sends to the team is a terrible one.

 

If he's their guy then let him be the guy and support him the way you do a starter. Every starter, even HOFers, have horrific games. They don't get benched for it. If Cousins is the QB, he should be the QB for the entire season unless he's hurt.

 

But be right.

[gholmesbm]

I think RGIII could run the read option plays now - he just hasn't because he and the team have been trying to maximise his reps with learning the drop back passer role to make him the complete QB he needs to be to be successful in the NFL. 2012 won't happen again, because it is no longer a surprise to other teams. 

 

He is no longer the starter because he has taken too long to develop the drop back skills he needs to be the starter. His last two injury-filled seasons have retarded that development. Cousins had an advantage in that area right from the start because his college system gave him more experience in that role. 

 

The team wants RGIII to be successful and to develop into their starting QB, given the large investment in him. He was given the starter role in the offseason to build his confidence and avoid controversy, and to give him every opportunity to develop his skills through the offseason programme and pre-season. He did not come along as quickly as the team needed him to up to the Lions game. Now with the concussion protocol meaning he will miss valuable game reps in pre-season, it is clear to the team that he would not be ready for week 1, and his development remains a work in progress.

 

Given his injury history, his health has been a big question mark on whether he can become a franchise QB. He was finally healthy for this offseason, and therefore was given the chance to start and show his development. One of the big issues is that his development and his injuries are related - his failure to progress and make quick decisions and get the ball out leads to lots of hits, which leads to more injuries, which makes it harder for him to develop. All the hits in this preseason, and the resulting concussion has shaken the team's confidence that he can stay healthy enough as a starter to complete his development. 

 

All said and done, it is better to go with Cousins to field a team with the best chance of winning, who by all reports has continued to develop at a good rate. Ironically, this may actually be very good for RGIII's development as well as he can continue to work on his drop back and decision making skills in practice without the injury risk of games. 

 

I think they will keep RGIII on the roster this year and monitor his development, unless they are given an attractive trade opportunity, which I think is unlikely. It is likely he will not play unless there are injuries to Cousins & McCoy, given the financial risk on his option, unless there is major progress and he clearly outshines Colt (or both of the others suck completely). If he really turns the corner, they might take up the option - also depends on how Cousins does. Otherwise he will be released to try his luck with another team. Either way, I think he will be a much better QB than he is today after a (healthy) season on the bench.

[Hazel-Ra]

 

 

RGIII was always super fast, but never super quick.   Even in 2012, he was not quick.   He was quick enough to get to top speed and that top speed, once reached, was something teams could not handle.   I believe the top speed actually remains.   If you put RGIII on a track he'd probably finish second on the team or maybe first in a 40.  

 

 

 

I think his 2012 TD run against Minnesota backs this take perfectly. I can't remember how many yards were needed to convert, but I remember screaming "Why are you running with it?" so it must have been 6+.

 

The play looked busted at the beginning, but he managed to slip through, then BARELY elude a couple of more guys. But after that there was no catching him.

 

I'm gonna miss THAT guy, but I'm a team man first. I also realize that Kirk is going to struggle as well but I'm 100% behind him and hope it leads to a couple of more wins.

 

I also solemnly swear to Extremeskins.com that I will NEVER buy a jersey for a current player again. I bought a Portis jersey around 05 or so and his decline started. I bought a Griffin jersey the week before the Ravens game...

 

Never again... My next one will be Clint Didier or something.

[FuriousD]

10 times out of 10, the play call is a draw, quick screen, or half back screen in that situation. (and especially so in the preseason).

Lol, comedy gold! You can't make this stuff up. Oh wait...

Thx Skin'emAlive, I needed a good laugh.

[endzone_dave]

When RG3 stopped being a read option QB and became a pocket QB, it was game over.  He couldn't figure it out.

[KingGibbs]

2012 was like crack to a fanbase that has been starved for a QB that could do what he did that year. A lot of the fanbase is still riding that high.

Some of us smoked the last of it last year. The pipe is empty.

Shouldn't this go in the massive RG3 thread?

jk don't ban me

I know right? Mass confusion!

[illone]

2012 is more like a perma-fried LSD trip than crack.

 

Come back!  Nope, can't.

[gortiz]

 It wasn't that he didn't want to run the Read Option, but rather that with shot knees, he couldn't run it. 

 

 

 

This is hard for me to accept ... go back to that last Dallas game in 2012 ... he was on one leg. But we stuck with the RO, Robert got the job done, Alfred had a monster game and I'm sure it was because of hte threat of the RO. 

 

these runs and passes by Robert are just awesome, week 17, biggest stage. Dallas knew what was coming.  http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012123007/2012/REG17/cowboys@redskins#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap2000000119789&tab=videos

 

If Nick Foles and Dalton can pull off the RO, a post surgery Robert, bad knees and all, can run it in spades I think. 

[CBass1724]

Some of us smoked the last of it last year. The pipe is empty.

 

 

Whenever I need a quick hit, I just fire up the NFL game rewind of the 2012 season.  It's like seeing a legit Unicorn or Big Foot on film.

[Heathen]

I loved read option 2012 as much as anyone, in fact I've even said if possible I'd run read option with RG3 EVERY PLAY. It was the most fun offense the league had seen in forever and it was ours, and it was damn sure effective. But that well has dried up and been sealed.

 

Warhead we usually don't see eye-to-eye on some things this past year, but you're dead on. I'm just so ****ing disappointed its crazy.

[thebluefood]

There needs to be an appreciation thread for Rob... hes brought us some good times. I was thinking back this morning during the Dallas game in 2012 when we won the division... Robert on the sidelines with Alfred Morris talking about the moment in a very calm and collected voice... about how they helped bring the team something we haven't had for 13 years.  I will NEVER forget that moment.  Thank you RGIII.

Probably my favorite moment as a Redskins fan. I, too, felt a lot of optimism because it was right after college and I thought I had some really great job opportunities lined up, including one in Washington. Everyone else in the house was asleep when the final gun sounded, but when it was over, I grabbed my D.C. flag and draped it around my shoulders. I just wanted to celebrate with someone. I've watched that NFL Films highlight reel of that game a million times with RGIII so non-chalantly say "run it down their throat. Make 'em quit."

 

But, like those job opportunities, it was a mirage and we're left with little more than those memories and questions about what might have been.

 

Oh well. The book's not closed on RGIII yet, but it ain't lookin' good.

[Forehead]

Oh sure, TK is acting all big and know it all-y now, he just wants us all to forget his giant Zorn signature he sported for a long time.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I just don't agree with benching him before giving him at least 2 or 3 games in the season with a full squad/playbook to see what he can do in year 2?

 

Just doesn't seem fair.

 

And if that's the case, Cousins leash should be just as short - he's 1-7.

Cause why risk the $16 million dollar 5th year option if he gets injured enough to not play next season.

 

Year 2?  Year two he stunk.  Year three he got injured game two, came back, stunk. Make all the excuses you want for the guy, but he had the opportunities and it didn't work out for him.  And make no mistakes, I was in favor of the trade to get him, was a supporter.

 

Now.......well it's over, finally and we can all move on.  He wanted to be a pocket passer, he got his wish and it's not worked out for him or the Redskins at all.  Thanks for 2012 kiddo, now hold the clipboard.

 

I actually heard an interview with Shanny on Sirius NFL Network at lunch today.  He praised RGIII and when asked if RGIII could be a successful pocket passer, his response was yes, but it might take 4-5 years for him to develop into an efficient one.  He made the comment that they tailored the offense to his strengths from college and high school, then after 2012, he asked to be in the pocket.  

 

Talked about how hard it is for guys already good in the pocket and comfortable to progress, much less basically learn a new system in the NFL.  Take it for what it's worth.

 

What I want to see now, that Kirk is named starter, is for him, assuming healthy, gets to start at least 10 games.  No more musical QB chairs.  No more pulling him from a game, unless it's to protect him from injury.

[MassSkinsFan]

I think all three of our QBs are terrible. I'd rather see Rex Grossman frankly.

 

For the coming year I expect the QB to play horribly. I just hope Gruden learns to run the show more like an NFL head coach and less like a MLB manager - leave the starter in the game dammit!!!

 

Then let's draft an indestructible hulk of a QB who can withstand any punishment thrown his way. :-)

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I think all three of our QBs are terrible. I'd rather see Rex Grossman frankly.

 

For the coming year I expect the QB to play horribly. I just hope Gruden learns to run the show more like an NFL head coach and less like a MLB manager - leave the starter in the game dammit!!!

 

Then let's draft an indestructible hulk of a QB who can withstand any punishment thrown his way. :-)

Funny, cause I just posted the same thing about leaving the QB in the game.  Consistency is needed.  They know what they have at QB, the talent contest was last year.  Start Kirk and by no means pull him unless we are winning with a huge lead or he is in danger of getting injured, etc.  

 

No more, Colt looked the best in practice today, so he gets the start next week versus Carolina.  No more of that bull****.  That bush league amateur bull****.  If healthy, give Kirk at minimum the first 10 games.  And if are sitting at 2-8, by all means, do whatever the hell you want.  

[Rodriggo]

I'd rather see Rex Grossman frankly.

 

Rather run wildcat with Trung Candidate. Wish there was an "unlike this" button....would have pressed it, would still be pressing it.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Rather run wildcat with Trung Candidate. Wish there was an "unlike this" button....would have pressed it, would still be pressing it.

lol, he talking like he doesn't remember that Dallas game, Rex trying to lead the comeback and couldn't even run fast enough to get out of bounds immediately and got chased down by some big fat guy, tackled, game over.  

 

Mofo was running so slow it was like watching those slow motion scenes from the Matrix.

 

That was when he piled on some pounds and became Rex The Plump Sex Dragon.

[mAshparie36]

This is hard for me to accept ... go back to that last Dallas game in 2012 ... he was on one leg. But we stuck with the RO, Robert got the job done, Alfred had a monster game and I'm sure it was because of hte threat of the RO. 

 

these runs and passes by Robert are just awesome, week 17, biggest stage. Dallas knew what was coming.  http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012123007/2012/REG17/cowboys@redskins#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap2000000119789&tab=videos

 

If Nick Foles and Dalton can pull off the RO, a post surgery Robert, bad knees and all, can run it in spades I think. 

 

apparently everyone thinks we have some sort of "gem" in Jay gruden and would like to see his "magical" offense do wonders (even tho no one on this roster could get it to work last season). He's Jim zorn 2.0 end of story.

 

here's to Darrel Bevel & RG3 2016!!!!!!

[Drastik]

Was there really a new thread made for this?

 

Anyway, RG3 is done here in Washington. I'm sure he'll go to a competent franchise and eat some humble pie... then resurface in 2 years and start playing good ball. Our franchise always loses.

 

My only hope now is that Kirk can look competent as a starting qb. Seems he's only good in relief or in the preseason. Because I certainly don't want us to draft Cook or Hackenburg. I'm not sold on either.

[DeadExField]

Why can't he just do what R. Wilson does, manage the run game, throw to wide open WRs, and sneak into the endzone off a bootleg when needed?

 

Does Griffin have to run a FULL option offense to be successful?

[mAshparie36]

Why can't he just do what R. Wilson does, manage the run game, throw to wide open WRs, and sneak into the endzone off a bootleg when needed?

 

Does Griffin have to run a FULL option offense to be successful?

lol we need someone who will call that for him! *see my post above* lol

 

DB RG3! DB RG3! DB RG3! *got a nice little ring to it*

[bigkahunaranch]

 

 

 Griffin is a great [ maybe not as much now ] athlete, but not much more. The question of being a top caliber QB can be questioned back to Baylor, a flash in the pan perhaps, but regardless, not having the physical tools needed to be a durable NFL QB have been exposed, and the damage is done.

 

 

Having watched RGIII in high school and here at Baylor, he was very fast, which helped him avoid big hits. Although he did get nailed in a Baylor game and suffered ACL injury. 

But the defense in the pros is so much faster, he just cant avoid the hits, and as Skins Island pointed out he is not durable enough to endure that kind of punishment. 

As a huge fan of RGIII I do hope he bulks up in the next couple years and goes to a team that can utilize his talents

I hope Cousins really can hold his own, because I have seen enough of Colt at Texas and in the pros to shudder at him being our savior,

As for the Redskins, I have trouble believing that we will not get a top five pick in next years draft.

 

 

My fantasy for the month is they trade RGIII to the Texans for Ryan Mallet. That gives Gruden that big, pocket passing QB with a strong arm. And RGIII gets closer to his home.

**** Just a fantasy ****

[Rodriggo]

**** Just a fantasy ****

 

Ryan Mallet is your fantasy? The guy that just got beat in training camp by Brian Hoyer?