It's not a conspiracy, it's preseason. Play calling is born of evaluation

[ZRagone]

“The simplest explanation is usually the correct one”

 

The adage is an old one, and one that has a lot of relevance to the current conversations occurring about Jay Gruden in the wake of the past two playoff games. There’s been a growing sense amongst fans that some conspiracy is afoot. That Jay wants Robert to fail; that he’s purposefully calling the games differently to punish or embarrass or show up Robert.

 

The evidence for this is largely built off the notion that the offense while Griffin has been in the game looks different than the offense when Colt or Kirk has been in there this off-season. One example of that is that Kirk and Colt have both had a Read Option play called for them.

 

Let’s ignore for a moment that a debate could be had as to whether or not the offense HAS really been different; let’s assume it is. I would suggest that such a difference is not an example of a grand conspiracy, a vindictive coach, or incompetence. Rather, I’d suggest there’s a much simpler answer.

 

The preseason is for evaluation, and there’s a very different evaluation being done regarding the three quarterbacks.

 

Without going into the thoughts on WHY it has happened, the fact in front of us is that Robert Griffin III is slated to be the starting quarterback of your Washington Redskins and it would take a combination of a monumental collapse on his part and extremely convincing case on another QB’s part to cause that to change. So what does that mean as it relates to the above assertion? It means that the evaluation being done on Griffin isn’t one where the coach is looking at how he’s going to function within the offense. Rather, the evaluation being done on Griffin is how he is progressing on certain aspects of the offense that were felt to be weaknesses.

 

What were some of the common knocks on Robert last year? Poor pocket awareness. Slow reads. Bad footwork. Indecisiveness. Difficulty throwing when going to his left.

 

Boot action to the right wasn’t thought of as a weakness. Play action passing wasn’t thought of as a weakness. Read Option wasn’t thought of as a weakness. At least, they weren’t relative to the things that were viewed as problems.

 

Many of the plays that have been called for Griffin this year have in theory been meant for the coaches to evaluate how he’s progressing with those weaknesses. We saw that in the first game, and based on the breakdowns of those smarter than I the coaches likely saw some of the improvements they hoped to see in those situations. The problem with the second game was that for many of the plays the game situation simply did not allow for a strong evaluative environment.

 

If I was to argue anything negative about Gruden as it relates to the play calling for Griffin, it would not be that he’s purposefully setting Griffin up to fail. Rather, it’d be that Gruden has shown a propensity to not “adapt” significantly from his game plan going in. This, I would argue, was more at fault for how the play calling progressed last night than any grand conspiracy. They came into the game with a plan to evaluate Griffin on certain things, so those were the kind of plays that were going to be called with Griffin regardless of the actual realities of the situation.

 

I would argue that “The plays for Robert are in place because they assist with the specific issues the coach wants to evaluate” is a far more reasonable and likely hypothesis than “The coach wanted him to fail”.

 

However, there’s a second part of this that buttresses that point; Colt and Kirk. Unlike Robert, these two are in an actual competition. Their status and position on the team is not a guarantee. As such, what needs to be evaluated for them is different than with Griffin. With Griffin entrenched as the starter, the evaluation is “what has he improved on”. In a competition for the backup spot, the evaluation is “who is a more capable backup”.

 

Those different questions lead to very different evaluative methods, which in turn leads to different play calling. For McCoy and Cousins, it’s not as much of an issue of “who fixed their errors last year”. While that plays into the matter, it’s secondary. The question is instead “if our starter goes down, who is more capable of running the team”. In order to evaluate the players with regards to that question the coach has to see how they would actually run the team.

 

Thus you have the play calling we see with Kirk and Colt. A more diverse play set that incorporates more movement and misdirection while maintaining a healthy dose of the ground and quick passing games. The play calls occurring while these QBs are what I believe the offense is going to actually look like. By having them play in such an offense, the coaching staff is able to accurately evaluate which one is likely to have a better chance of coming in and being a starter for a few games.

 

So as I said with Griffin, I would argue that “The plays for Colt and Kirk are in place because they assist with the specific role the coaches want to evaluate” is a far more reasonable and likely hypothesis than “The coaches wanted them to look better than Robert”.

 

While conspiracy theories are fun internet fodder and talk show chatter, the reality is that the more reasonable and simple answer is likely correct. Preseason has a purpose and it’s purpose, almost above all else, is evaluation. The conspiracy theory notion is born from a flawed premise that somehow what needs to be evaluated in a general sense is the same between all the QBs and that somehow what plays are being called don’t have a role in evaluation. That is simply not the case.

 

The play calls that are occurring are there to assist with the specific type of evaluation the coaching staff wants to do. That’s why, while fans may freak out over Griffin’s issues or laud Cousins/McCoys accomplishments, the coaching staff has been steadfast in their stance. The two situations during the preseason are not the same because the positions the coaching staff are placing them in aren’t the same. Not for nefarious purposes, but for legitimate evaluative reasons.

[lotty21]

I was probably the first to bring up the strange playcalling in the GD thread last night, but I quickly dismissed any thought of it being a conspiracy theory.  I completely agree with your assessment here and had the same thoughts. I think Gruden and the staff are simply using preseason to work primarily on things Griffin needs to be better from last season, while Kirk and Colt... as you pointed out... are competing for #2 and they're using a wider playbook to see who can run it.  

 

Makes sense to me.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It could also be that Chubs Gruden is really bad at playcalling.

 

Boom! Wild card!

[Burgold]

I think there is probably a lot of truth here, but there is also fault. If you want to evaluate weaknesses, but something is not only not working, but completely self-destructing then it makes sense to change things up at least a little. Maybe add a tight end to Willie Smith's side, maybe give the qb a couple of plays that should provide easy success and confidence for him and the team before going back to testing. Clearly yesterday, the run and pass game was not working in the first quarter... a major flaw of Griffin's is he seems to lack any notion of self preservation... he's too brave by half which leads him to taking too many hits and making too many bad plays.

 

His instincts also seem to be misfiring. He dodges the wrong way all too often. Now, that's important for the coaches to see and evaluate, but there's a point where evaluation takes a back seat to torture and punishment. We surpassed that yesterday. The insistence to keeping with the plan was cruel. It didn't really teach them anything and cost them much.

 

The o line, quarterback, and coaches all failed yesterday.  Bad job by all.

 

On the other hand, I'm pleased by our depth. Our depth showed well. I hope that bodes well for the future (next season.)

[Taylor703]

The difference in play calling is due to evaluation just like you said. There is no conspiracy, it's just Gruden trying to work on what Robert isn't good at. That's what the preseason is for.

[HOF44]

I really don't think there is a big difference in play calling.  I think it just looks different when it's executed in a timely correct manner.  As to the RO plays they have been deep in the opponents field, a place where Griffin has not spent much time this year. So field position could be in play with those particular calls.  Also in an interview today McCoy said Gruden calls the RO when he see's the D ends start cheating position.  My guess is when Griffin is in the game those D ends don't cheat nearly as much. 

[ZRagone]

I think there is probably a lot of truth here, but there is also fault. If you want to evaluate weaknesses, but something is not only not working, but completely self-destructing then it makes sense to change things up at least a little.

 

I don't disagree here, and even noted it above.

 

If I have a critique of Gruden, it's that last year I don't remember thinking he often adapted to what the defense was doing (this was an issue of Haz as well). The same could be said with this preseason game. You go into it with a game plan of "I'm going to evaluated Griffin on X, Y, Z". However, after the first two series it should have been apparent that there was no way to do any evaluating unless he changed things up. He needed to either change things up a bit to account for that OR just pull the QB. Instead, he seemingly stuck to his game plan.

 

If people want to bang on him for that I can understand it. But that's a large difference between him doing it because he's slow to change from his game plan and suggesting he's doing it because of some issue he has with Robert / some preference for the other two guys. For the most part, the posts I've seen seem to hint more at the former than the latter as their motivation.

I really don't think there is a big difference in play calling.  I think it just looks different when it's executed in a timely correct manner.  As to the RO plays they have been deep in the opponents field, a place where Griffin has not spent much time this year. So field position could be in play with those particular calls.  Also in an interview today McCoy said Gruden calls the RO when he see's the D ends start cheating position.  My guess is when Griffin is in the game those D ends don't cheat nearly as much. 

 

Yep. As I said, there's a legitimate argument to be made that the play calling isn't ACTUALLY that different. My post was basically going off the notion that, for the sake of argument, lets say it WAS different. That would STILL not indicate some grand conspiracy or some great disdain for Robert and what he can do (or love for Kirk/Colt).

 

I absolutely think field position comes into play. McCoys first drive had a nearly 40 yards of rushing in the first three plays, causing him to be near mid field by the time he started throwing the ball. That changes the dynamics of play calling, and of QB play, massively.

 

But the purpose of this was to basically say "Okay, let's accept your premise that the play calling is different...here's why that may be"

[PlayAction]

In addition to evaluating RG3 the coaches need to evaluate each member of the OL.  Can Willie Smith be effective as a backup LT?  Can the RB be effective picking up blitzes?  If Gruden immediately puts in a TE (we don't have many!) to support Smith then the evaluation suffers.  If you pull RG3 quickly to save him from hits then we can't evaluate RG3 and everyone will think he was pulled for poor performance.  In a real game you don't have the option of pulling RG3 no matter what's happening.  He has to play unless he's hurt. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In addition to evaluating RG3 the coaches need to evaluate each member of the OL.  Can Willie Smith be effective as a backup LT?

 

No. Next question....

 

  Can the RB be effective picking up blitzes? 

 

No. Next question....

 

  In a real game you don't have the option of pulling RG3 no matter what's happening.  He has to play unless he's hurt. 

 

Oh....I get it. You just started watching football.

[Dissident2]

“The simplest explanation is usually the correct one”

 

Yep. And sometimes all you need is a set of eyes to see the truth. 

 

When people have to go through elaborate diagrams to explain why RG3 was "not that bad," break out upper echelon football knowledge, devise conspiracy theories, etc., it really just underscores the simple truth that's plain as day: he's not a good QB. He's not effective. He is the worst QB on the roster right now. 

 

The line sucked last night, but I have never seen a QB take the kind of horror show shots this guy does with this kind of Dulcolax regularity. Has anyone? I've watched football for 40 years. I have never seen a guy go down in the crazy, awkward ways he goes down so often. Never. 

 

The fact that he's the "unquestionable starter" at this point is really mind-boggling considering what he's shown on the field since 2013. 

[Wildbunny]

I don't believe in the conspiracy theory as well. If Gruden hates Griffin as it's stated around, he can just name him 3rd behind whoever he wants, he's the coach and it's his job.

 

The line sucked last night, but I have never seen a QB take the kind of horror show shots this guy does with this kind of Dulcolax regularity. Has anyone? I've watched football for 40 years. I have never seen a guy go down in the crazy, awkward ways he goes down so often. Never. 

 

 

On a side note, I've hardly noted DL going that wild after Griffin than any other QB. Seems like that's the DC plan: go after him, hurt him, knock him out of the game, no matter what as if nobody wants to be the duck in case he regains is 2012 form. Don't know, but those hits feel vicious at times.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The adage is an old one, and one that has a lot of relevance to the current conversations occurring about Jay Gruden in the wake of the past two playoff games. 

Was that intentional? Because if so, it was kinda funny.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Cooley during his weekly breakdown says that the conspiracies are craziness. It boils down to this:

 

Playbook is the same.

 

Lions were lining up in Wide 9 (google that if you're not familiar. The Iggles made it known in 2011) so that basically kills the idea of running any bootlegs/rollouts, especially with their starters in. Had they been run, Robert would have been killed. 

 

According to Cooley, RG3 ISN'T good at boots/rollouts.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I can't wait to get this season over with so we can fire Jay and bring in Gus Mahlzan

 

Fun times 

[Rufus T Firefly]

I can't wait to get this season over with so we can fire Jay and bring in Gus Mahlzan

 

Fun times 

Yeah, I do think Gruden's contract makes it hard to fire him, but I feel confident his coaching will be so atrocious Snyder will be forced to bite the bullet and do it anyway.

[ZRagone]

When people have to go through elaborate diagrams to explain why RG3 was "not that bad," break out upper echelon football knowledge, devise conspiracy theories, etc., it really just underscores the simple truth that's plain as day: he's not a good QB. He's not effective. He is the worst QB on the roster right now.

There's an ENTIRE THREAD dedicated to Griffin for those that are absolutely obsessed with carrying on their crusade for or against him to their little hearts content.

This is not that thread.

Whether Griffin was bad or not, or is a good QB or not, is largely irrelevant to what's actually the topic of this thread. Or, AT BEST, if it is relevant you in form attempted to actually link it to a point about the topic of this thread.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, taking your attempts to derail my thread into a typical "GRIFFIN SUCKS / GRIFFIN ROCKS" slugfest to the obsessive compulsive RG3 thread.

[Ghost of]

Lions were lining up in Wide 9 (google that if you're not familiar.

I remember when this formation was considered "cheese" on Madden if you played online.

I can't wait to get this season over with so we can fire Jay and bring in Gus Mahlzan

Fun times

Jay was a legitimate candidate but didn't most of us feel the fix was in when he was hired as part of that Tampa connection?

[Jumbo]

There's a specificity to the topic in the OP. Let's stick to it.

 

I.e. it's not another qb thread or a "general jay gruden stuff"  thread. 

 

Discuss the positions you have on all the claims related to "the different offenses" and that stuff. 

[NoCalMike]

Running different offense vs. the actual play calling. I think it is a stretch to say there was a separate offense being called, but I don't think you can really question the fact that it seemed different kinds of plays were being called to buy the QB's more time to throw versus very traditional drop backs.

[TK]

In a real game you don't have the option of pulling RG3 no matter what's happening. He has to play unless he's hurt.

http://youtu.be/XO93Edk7xtw

[TK]

Running different offense vs. the actual play calling. I think it is a stretch to say there was a separate offense being called, but I don't think you can really question the fact that it seemed different kinds of plays were being called to buy the QB's more time to throw versus very traditional drop backs.

Go here: http://es.redskins.com/topic/391884-play-by-play-skins-vs-lions/

[Dissident2]

There's an ENTIRE THREAD dedicated to Griffin for those that are absolutely obsessed with carrying on their crusade for or against him to their little hearts content.

This is not that thread.

 

Melodrama aside, you're right. My apologies. I hadn't really posted in that "other thread" much, so I let the emotion slip into this one and lost sight of the topic. 

 

Let me try to rectify that. Although I will say that it's impossible to keep a thread like this devoid of inevitable criticism of Robert, which I'll show below. 

 

Without going into the thoughts on WHY it has happened, the fact in front of us is that Robert Griffin III is slated to be the starting quarterback of your Washington Redskins and it would take a combination of a monumental collapse on his part and extremely convincing case on another QB’s part to cause that to change.

 

 

And both of those scenarios are not too far removed from reality at this point.

 

So what does that mean as it relates to the above assertion? It means that the evaluation being done on Griffin isn’t one where the coach is looking at how he’s going to function within the offense. Rather, the evaluation being done on Griffin is how he is progressing on certain aspects of the offense that were felt to be weaknesses.

 

 

I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but I also don't buy this. For one thing, "how he's going to function in the offense" and "how he's progressing on weaknesses" are not at all mutually exclusive as you seem to present them here. Each affects the other. So an evaluation of one is in effect an evaluation of the other. 

 

Many of the plays that have been called for Griffin this year have in theory been meant for the coaches to evaluate how he’s progressing with those weaknesses. We saw that in the first game, and based on the breakdowns of those smarter than I the coaches likely saw some of the improvements they hoped to see in those situations. The problem with the second game was that for many of the plays the game situation simply did not allow for a strong evaluative environment.

 

While I don't believe there was/is in any way a "conspiracy," I also have a problem with this scenario you're painting. If it's indeed true, then it means Gruden is an utter buffoon. He may in fact be, but this would be an exceptional level of buffoonery.

 

You said yourself, the simple answer is usually the correct answer. Well, football has one simple, obvious goal: win. Win the game. Everything else is secondary. And in today's NFL, it's "win now." 

 

If this team is going to win with Griffin, now's not the time to use a preseason game with a suspect line to practice and evaluate the things Robert is bad at, things that would've made themselves completely manifest by now through training camp. Now's the time to practice what he's GOOD at and make those things a part of the game plan, get Robert confidence, get the fan base confidence, get the other players confidence. "Evaluative environments" are constructed in training camp. You don't get to craft your environment in a real game. You react to the environment that presents itself to you. How a player reacts to those unexpected situations is in and of itself a "strong evaluative environment." 

 

If you as a coaching staff are using the preseason to stubbornly call plays designed to evaluate a QB's fundamentals, especially the QB you've already DECREED is your starter, then you're absolutely doomed, and that applies to your season as well as your coaching tenure. I don't believe that's what's happening here.

 

So this is why I say it's difficult to avoid yet another critique of Robert when discussing your points; I don't think there's a conspiracy theory, I don't think the coaches are trying to "evalute" RG3's fundamentals at this point (and again, if they are, we're in trouble). I simply think Robert's performance overall is such that, combined with the admitted line problems, he's not able to be effective no matter what offense is called. 

 

The notion that Kirk and Colt are being "evaluated differently" is also specious. Again, the SIMPLE goal is to win the game. And again, if you're going to use Robert to achieve that goal, you want him practicing the offense you've devised in preseason the same way you're allowing Kirk and Colt to practice it. 

 

If your premise is correct, it would mean that Gruden is already totally confident with Griffin running the offense he's allowing Kirk and Colt to run. What would indicate that this could possibly be true? Last year's play? No. Training camp reports this year? Not really. Then why wouldn't Gruden be giving Griffin the same opportunities to show he can run the offense that Kirk and Colt are getting? 

 

Again, there's no reason for such overthinking. The simple answer is usually correct. 

 

Gruden has not devised a conspiracy to "thwart" Robert.

 

He isn't throwing Robert to the wolves in a live action game with a deficient line to "evaluate" his fundamentals three weeks from the opener.

 

Robert is simply not performing. 

[TSO]

 

If this team is going to win with Griffin, now's not the time to use a preseason game with a suspect line to practice and evaluate the things Robert is bad at, things that would've made themselves completely manifest by now through training camp. Now's the time to practice what he's GOOD at and make those things a part of the game plan, get Robert confidence, get the fan base confidence, get the other players confidence. "Evaluative environments" are constructed in training camp. You don't get to craft your environment in a real game. You react to the environment that presents itself to you. How a player reacts to those unexpected situations is in and of itself a "strong evaluative environment." 

 

 

Pretty much everything we've been hearing this offseason and through TC from our local media/fans has been that the Oline looks improved. Furthermore, Willie Smith had a great game last week against the Browns at RT and many were actually calling for him to replace Moses, lol.

 

So it's not altogether unreasonable to assume Gruden thought the Oline would play a lot better than that. It's not unreasonable to assume he thought that, even seeing them fail so badly, that with every new pass play called they'd get their **** together.

 

I've seen the most vocal members on ES scream and cry about coaches here "not giving their guys a chance" and "going away from *insert whatever playcall/scheme here* too quickly". And, I get it, it's preseason... maybe he should've just left it alone. But it's totally hindsight is 20/20. Had the offense went out and moved the ball that last drive, everyone would be saying "good thing they got something going there at the end".    

[adamyesme1111]

I felt like saying this, but I recall many people complaining about a boot-leg on 3rd and 20 (which I wouldn't blame if it wasn't preseason).  There were so many conspiracies and people saying Gruden is a horrible play-caller and coach based on the last game they saw.  Glad to have this thread up here.

[Enzo]

Are you guys really critisizing play calling in the preseason.  Most of you should know that play calling in the preseason is very simple.  The coaches aren't thinking about game plans, they are trying to evaluate players & yes they are probably setting up Griffin to fail.  But, not in the way some people think.  They want to see how he reacts in those situations & see what he does wrong so that in practice he & the coaches can work on those aspects of his game.  They are probably doing the same to most if not all of the players.  As far Cousins & McCoy looking better.  Well, they are better in the pocket I will admit that & they are also playing against 2nd & 3rd string players and players that won't be on the team come opening day.