The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gov-scott-walker-calls-possibility-taking-online-courses/story?id=31593687 Reading about Scott Walker and his desire to get his degree while in office got me thinking about it. I was somewhat of a late bloomer in the education arena myself going back to college at 30 to finish. Prior to that I made the argument that it wasn't really necessary, like a lot of people do (mostly folks that haven't gotten a degree but are still competent at their jobs like I was). My motivation was practical, I was running out of jobs that paid more, for which I was qualified. The promotions I had in mind for myself required a degree so I went and got one. To put it mildly I learned a lot more than I thought I would. As a result of my personal experience, I can't see how anyone who hasn't been made to think about things outside of both their frame of reference and their experiences can be a leader. Maybe there are other ways to achieve that? Plus it's evidence of your ability to manage things. Right? What does ES think about a college being a requirement for national office? Is it enough that it's implicit, which to me it seems to be, as opposed to a hard rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I know some people without degrees that I consider highly intelligent, and some people with a degree that i wouldn't trust to be responsible for a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If Bill Gates wants to run for President, I'm at least going to listen to what he has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I know some people without degrees that I consider highly intelligent, and some people with a degree that i wouldn't trust to be responsible for a dog. This Pretty straightforward "no" from me. And I'm not even going to get into the socio-economic implications that such a requirement would have. But it is implicit now, as you mentioned. That's enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I like at it like this.......All the Presidents in recent history have had a college degree. Where has it gotten us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 All valid points, just for discussion's sake why is it alright for my low level not having much impact on the world self, to have to demonstrate competence and knowledge by virtue of what most would say is the best tool for demonstrating it, but not someone running for national office? I'd listen to Bill Gates but I wouldn't vote for him. His skill set doesn't include the sort of compromise and subtle manipulation that are required from a national politician. I like at it like this.......All the Presidents in recent history have had a college degree. Where has it gotten us? Who knows what the alternative might have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd say no. I went to college via the traditional route route (right after HS, 4 years full time), but I also acknowledge two things: 1) Some people's families are not in the financial situation to allow for the same, and once you're earning money in the working world, it's really tough to put that on hold and go back, or do it parttime. 2) Some people go to college with the intent of navigating the easiest path to a diploma so their education is essentially worthless. Personally, I used college as an opportunity to explore intellectually, but modern universities are pretty much a meat grinder and they don't exactly encourage you to do that. They just want your money and the opportunity to claim you as an alum should you do anything noteworthy in your life. Should you happen to connect with one of a handful of professors and push yourself intellectually it can be a transformative experience but that's less and less the case these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd say no. I went to college via the traditional route route (right after HS, 4 years full time), but I also acknowledge two things: 1) Some people's families are not in the financial situation to allow for the same, and once you're earning money in the working world, it's really tough to put that on hold and go back, or do it parttime. 2) Some people go to college with the intent of navigating the easiest path to a diploma so their education is essentially worthless. I'm going to be an asshole in response to 1. It's true (and it's not entirely fair) but maybe they should hold off on their aspirations to be the president? They would have to hold off on their aspirations to do my job. How is president different in this respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So is a online or foreign degree acceptable? Why not just certain schools? I'd be fine with a competency test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd be fine with a competency test For both the candidates and the voters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I know some people without degrees that I consider highly intelligent, and some people with a degree that i wouldn't trust to be responsible for a dog. This right here pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nope. Plenty of people with degrees are complete idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Walker learned everything he needed to know about politics at Marquette before he dropped out. Run a campaign. Break the rules as much as you can. Just don't get caught anymore or, at least have someone take the fall for you from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Society already has the mechanism to judge the worthiness of a college or degree. Accreditation. Not perfect for sure, but we rely on it pretty heavily. Let me clarify. I in no way am suggesting that a degree on it's own would render someone qualified to be pres. The other criteria and ways we have of judging a candidate's suitability (or level of idiocy) wouldn't just go away if you tacked on another requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well it is hard to get a government job these days (and then be able to move up to a leadership position) without a college degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm going to be an asshole in response to 1. It's true (and it's not entirely fair) but maybe they should hold off on their aspirations to be the president? They would have to hold off on their aspirations to do my job. How is president different in this respect? I agree with you only if your college degree actually directly prepared you for your job. (That may be the case, I don't know what you do) If not then I'm not sure why you feel more entitled to your job than someone without a degree-- it's entirely possible they picked up the job skills necessary to do your job through other jobs they've held along the way. I'm basically arguing that TPOTUSA is decades removed from college so everything else that's happened along the way is likely way more important than the 4-year degree they earned. On side note, this feels like a moot discussion-- I don't see anyone without a college degree being a legit contender for the presidency anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd say Walker is still an option for the GOP. Rand Paul also didn't get an undergraduate degree but was somehow accepted into Duke's medical school. I suspect he proved his academic worth by graduating from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I agree with you only if your college degree actually directly prepared you for your job. (That may be the case, I don't know what you do) If not then I'm not sure why you feel more entitled to your job than someone without a degree-- it's entirely possible they picked up the job skills necessary to do your job through other jobs they've held along the way. On side note, this feels like a moot discussion-- I don't see anyone without a college degree being a legit contender for the presidency anytime soon. That's a very relevant point, I appreciate it. My degree is in fact related to the technical aspect of the job. Walker is marginal but he's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I like at it like this.......All the Presidents in recent history have had a college degree. Where has it gotten us? Global dominance and the highest standard of living in human history? And of course, the continued freedom to whine like a little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Based upon truly successful people, I think it should be a requirement that you went to college and dropped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not all college degrees are the same and are a poor measure of someone's ability to think. Sarah Palin, after all, is a "college" graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not all college degrees are the same and are a poor measure of someone's ability to think. Sarah Palin, after all, is a "college" graduate. I'll reiterate, it's not perfect but it's a tool we use everyday and all across the country for the purpose I'm proposing. Why shouldn't it be included in the tools we use to judge a person worthy of the highest office in the land? Not the only one just one many like it is for most jobs. Those other tools I speak of, were used effectively in Palin's case. We deemed her unworthy of being VP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll reiterate, it's not perfect but it's a tool we use everyday and all across the country for the purpose I'm proposing. Why shouldn't it be included in the tools we use to judge a person worthy of the highest office in the land? Not the only one just one many like it is for most jobs. Those other tools I speak of, were used effectively in Palin's case. We deemed her unworthy of being VP. My argument is this: Case 1: For ~20% of the jobs out there that require a degree, the college degree actually prepares that individual for the job they're going to do. You wouldn't hire a lawyer/doctor who didn't study that field in school (even if that was legal). Likewise, you'd be far less likely to hire an engineer/architect who didn't study those fields in college, although you might if they've held similar positions and learned those trades in the field. Case 2: For the remaining ~80% of jobs needing degrees, the degree is just a filter to weed out the ridiculously unqualified. In other words, a 23-year-old who went to college has demonstrated they are at least capable of committing to completing a long-term task. In the case of the president, I don't believe there's a set of coursework that prepares you for the job, so Case 1 doesn't seem valid. Sure, having a deep economics or law background will certainly help, but the President's job seems more centered around building coalitions, and striking key compromises to get things done domestically and internationally. They usually have access to some of the brightest and most passionate minds out there with respect to developing actual policy, but their job is to lead and get things done. With respect to Case 2, that's a seriously low bar to set for the presidency. Regardless of whether he/she has a degree or not, he/she should have decades of demonstrated experience showing that they can get things done. Realistically, the president probably needs a college degree to get all the relevant experience needed to do the job. But if he/she somehow managed to earn that experience without having earned the degree decades ago then I wouldn't disqualify him from the presidency. When you're hiring an entry-level person, their credentials are somewhat a black box, so you sometimes just need arbitrary rules to put some structure into the hiring process. But a presidential candidate has absurd amounts of existing hurdles to jump: They have to establish themselves as a presidential contender, they have to raise money, they have to develop political alliances to support them, their previous speaking and voting history is completely transparent. If a candidate can pass all of those tests, why should we stipulate that they earned a college degree 20+ years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Whatevs. I wouldn't vote for Scott Walker if Oxford gave him all the degrees they had and then couldn't give any more because Scott Walker had them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think a better question is should candidates be forced to take a Wonderlic test to show their mental competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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