PokerPacker Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 He wouldn't be an ordinary 7th rounder, though...I think his point is that the opportunity cost of drafting him is drafting a 7th round talent. Is that opportunity cost greater than the value of picking up a 1st round talent who might hold out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think his point is that the opportunity cost of drafting him is drafting a 7th round talent. Is that opportunity cost greater than the value of picking up a 1st round talent who might hold out? Ah, gotcha...well, if his agent is telling you point blank that you're gonna embarrass yourself by wasting a 7th round pick on the guy cuz he is absolutely gonna hold out and every other team believes he will as well, then the question becomes is acquiring a 7th round talent better than not getting any talent whatsoever? Because let's face it, if he gets drafted by the Browns in the 7th round, that's pretty much it for a career in football lol...Claims of "bluffing" or not, in that scenario I'm guessing his agent is telling him "**** it, just go ahead and hold out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ah, gotcha...well, if his agent is telling you point blank that you're gonna embarrass yourself by wasting a 7th round pick on the guy cuz he is absolutely gonna hold out and every other team believes he will as well, then the question becomes is acquiring a 7th round talent better than not getting any talent whatsoever? Because let's face it, if he gets drafted by the Browns in the 7th round, that's pretty much it for a career in football lol...Claims of "bluffing" or not, in that scenario I'm guessing his agent is telling him "**** it, just go ahead and hold out." This is the thing I keep thinking about. Every team passed. So, I guess every GM in the NFL is a dumb ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ah, gotcha...well, if his agent is telling you point blank that you're gonna embarrass yourself by wasting a 7th round pick on the guy cuz he is absolutely gonna hold out and every other team believes he will as well, then the question becomes is acquiring a 7th round talent better than not getting any talent whatsoever? Because let's face it, if he gets drafted by the Browns in the 7th round, that's pretty much it for a career in football lol...Claims of "bluffing" or not, in that scenario I'm guessing his agent is telling him "**** it, just go ahead and hold out." Nobody would have been "embarrassed" by picking him in the 7th. If he held out, which there is no way in hell he would have, then you hold the rights to him. If he doesn't hold out, you get a bonus. Odds are pretty good all your 7th rounders won't stick anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ah, gotcha...well, if his agent is telling you point blank that you're gonna embarrass yourself by wasting a 7th round pick on the guy cuz he is absolutely gonna hold out and every other team believes he will as well, then the question becomes is acquiring a 7th round talent better than not getting any talent whatsoever? Because let's face it, if he gets drafted by the Browns in the 7th round, that's pretty much it for a career in football lol...Claims of "bluffing" or not, in that scenario I'm guessing his agent is telling him "**** it, just go ahead and hold out."Yes, getting a 7th round talent is better than getting nothing, so a team has to consider the odds of a hold-out combined with the odds that he's somehow involved in the murder versus the odds of a 7th round player being a solid contributor to the team. Obviously all the GMs with picks in the 7th decided his value was not worth the opportunity cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It's ok if you don't get it...I'm pretty sure most everyone else does. Oh, I got it. His team was bluffing all the way. That was obvious to me from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I still have a feeling there is more to run on this story - and to be h honest I am not sure everything will come out but I am glad the Redskins are no where near this mess. I also think it is interesting the representatives were so candid in the SN interview warning teams off drafting the kid andalso inferring that he might have something to do with what went on . Do they not want to represent people in the future ? - This kind of shenanigans does not go down well with team owners who tend to have long and quite spiteful memories .. It is not that they actually got one over on the NFL rather the other GMs and decision makers were gambling the other 31 teams would let him fall and then swoop in with UDFA money and no PR implications . The other thing that kind of bothers me about the kid is he deicide he wanted to go somewhere warm , with an established coach and QB etc. In a way I understand it but surely it kind of suggests he is not as confident in his ability as you would like . I mean I would understand if he said I want to play for this team because they are near home or I supported them forever etc. but the criteria were a little specific ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 This is the thing I keep thinking about. Every team passed. So, I guess every GM in the NFL is a dumb ****. No GM even used a 7th round compensatory pick on him. What should that tell you lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Nobody would have been "embarrassed" by picking him in the 7th. If he held out, which there is no way in hell he would have, then you hold the rights to him. If he doesn't hold out, you get a bonus. Odds are pretty good all your 7th rounders won't stick anyways. It's wild how we fans knew this but apparently no GM in the NFL did lol...wonder why that is. And if he doesn't sign a contract I don't think any team has any "right" to Collins. In fact, here's the rule concerning all of this: "If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player’s initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the player is the only Club with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of the Draft in the subsequent League Year, at which time such player is eligible to be drafted in the subsequent League Year’s Draft by any Club except the Club that drafted him in the initial Draft." So what that means is, if you do draft him and he does hold out, not only do you waste a draft pick, you can not re-draft him in next year's draft. The only rights the drafting team has is that the player can only sign with them during the next 12 months. But if he doesn't plan on signing with anyone, that "benefit" is rendered useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 No GM even used a 7th round compensatory pick on him. What should that tell you lol... After all the talking from his agent, I was really hoping that Collins would become Mr. Irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I can't tell if the agent or the player is the head case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 No GM even used a 7th round compensatory pick on him. What should that tell you lol... 30 GM's didn't make a good decision this year by missing the superbowl. Let's stop pretending GM's are geniuses no matter what they hit or miss. How many GM's passed on Dez Bryant? How about Justin Blackmon being drafted? How many busts in the draft have teams endured within the past 10 years including us? We used 3 first round picks on RG3! Three! Starting to look like our former GM was a genius too huh? Sometimes you have to take a chance. I see no problem if any team used a 7th round pick flyer, let alone an UDFA. Especially when your Oline is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 30 GM's didn't make a good decision this year by missing the superbowl. What? lol...what decision did any GM make that kept them from the Super Bowl? Let's stop pretending GM's are geniuses no matter what they hit or miss. You're not even remotely getting the point. It's not about whether or not GMs are geniuses...it's about whether or not it was understandable for a GM to assume Collins and his agent were not bluffing about him holding out for the year if drafted, and thus not using a draft pick on him. Even a 7th round compensatory draft pick. For anyone whose intelligence is not being clouded by fan emotion, that should have told you a ****load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 What? lol...what decision did any GM make that kept them from the Super Bowl? You're not even remotely getting the point. It's not about whether or not GMs are geniuses...it's about whether or not it was understandable for a GM to assume Collins and his agent were not bluffing about him holding out for the year if drafted, and thus not using a draft pick on him. Even a 7th round compensatory draft pick. For anyone whose intelligence is not being clouded by fan emotion, that should have told you a ****load. Oh I'm completely getting the point. The point most of us who aren't in favor of yours is making is to take the flier. Does anyone know the % of 7th round picks being successful? Call the bluff. If he wants to never have a career in the NFL, take the bluff and let him plunge his career. Your right though, it is fan emotion especially for me. Cowboys crushed this draft on paper and I'm worried they are going to be decent again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I just don't see anyway it's a bad move even if he is later found guilty. We are a strong enough brand to withstand any backlash for the short time until we released him and moved on. No reason to pass on a talent like that at a great price . That's all there is to it. Strong enough brand? Are you kidding me? You do realize that when it comes to media coverage, we are the among the first choice pinatas, right? I'm not happy we didn't take a flier on him in the late rounds either, but Christ, people are on here acting like he's the next coming of Gene Upshaw or Jim Lachey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Strong enough brand? Are you kidding me? You do realize that when it comes to media coverage, we are the among the first choice pinatas, right? I'm not happy we didn't take a flier on him in the late rounds either, but Christ, people are on here acting like he's the next coming of Gene Upshaw or Jim Lachey. And we keep on ticking despite piñata status, which speaks to the strength of our brand. We would be fine with him. Also, assumed media backlash is a poor reason to avoid making your team better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Also, assumed media backlash is a poor reason to avoid making your team better But fear is the primary motivating factor in NFL front offices. There is a real paucity of innovation and outside the box thinking because the whole industry is afraid of doing something different and being open to criticism for it. That's why it's the sport with virtually no trades. GMs are scared of being seen as "losing" a deal. Doing anything but "win now" just isn't done, which is why no one goes on a real rebuilding effort. Because they will be called out for "tanking" or some other nonsense. That even extends to the trade deadline, which in every other sport features teams out of contention dealing away vets for pieces that can actually help them build a good team. In the NFL it is rarely taken advantage of because teams have to act like they're putting winning now over the future, even if they're 1-7. Why? Because that is what is done and you can't buck that, unless you want to be open to criticism. The whole mindset is why the Patriots' front office has run circles around the rest of the NFL for years, even though they don't draft all that well. They are just a bit forward-thinking, and that gives them an advantage over everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmd24 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 That's why it's the sport with virtually no trades. GMs are scared of being seen as "losing" a deal. Doing anything but "win now" just isn't done, which is why no one goes on a real rebuilding effort. Because they will be called out for "tanking" or some other nonsense. That even extends to the trade deadline, which in every other sport features teams out of contention dealing away vets for pieces that can actually help them build a good team. In the NFL it is rarely taken advantage of because teams have to act like they're putting winning now over the future, even if they're 1-7. Why? Because that is what is done and you can't buck that, unless you want to be open to criticism. You make a very good point. I'd add that the way the NFL handles acceleration of signing bonuses and restructure bonuses upon trading a player makes it more difficult to trade a player until he only has a year or two left on his deal. A rebuilding team would like to trade proven, high-priced veterans near the end of their contracts for up-and-coming players with long term contracts. Having to absorb the veteran salary plus the acceleration of prorated bonus makes it very difficult for the good teams to trade youth to acquire a 1-year rental on a veteran for a Superbowl run. It's exacerbated by the fact that good teams tend to use a lot of their salary cap dollars to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 You make a very good point. I'd add that the way the NFL handles acceleration of signing bonuses and restructure bonuses upon trading a player makes it more difficult to trade a player until he only has a year or two left on his deal. A rebuilding team would like to trade proven, high-priced veterans near the end of their contracts for up-and-coming players with long term contracts. Having to absorb the veteran salary plus the acceleration of prorated bonus makes it very difficult for the good teams to trade youth to acquire a 1-year rental on a veteran for a Superbowl run. It's exacerbated by the fact that good teams tend to use a lot of their salary cap dollars to begin with. The NBA and NHL have salary caps that are harder to work around, and make more deals from smaller rosters. Also, many teams have a good amount of cap available year round these days with how the cap is going up. From ESPN at the last deadline: A number of playoff contenders have surprising surpluses: New England ($11 million), Cincinnati ($9 million), Denver ($8 million), Baltimore ($6 million), Arizona ($6 million) and Carolina ($6 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm just going to leave this here: http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/06/escort-throatzilla-alleges-lael-collins-didnt-pay-her-for-eating-butt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Lol i saw that this morning. Wonderful start he's off to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Um...if that Throatzilla woman is telling the truth, Collins doesn't exactly have the best taste imo. It's incredibly easy to, uh...find her resume online, so to speak lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Now, now, in the interest of fairness, we need to step back and wait for the facts. Gotta give La'el the same fair treatment as Crowder. I hope for his sake it's not true...for several reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I've heard of people having creditors after their asses but this.... this is new. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Now, now, in the interest of fairness, we need to step back and wait for the facts. Gotta give La'el the same fair treatment as Crowder. I hope for his sake it's not true...for several reasons. I'm not wishing that he gets suspended or punished. I just want to laugh at him. Screw due process for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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