Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 And just to add a little more clarity: "The Dallas Cowboys and Collins have a meeting planned, a source said Wednesday. They are the latest team to come after the former All-Southeastern Conference tackle who some projected as high as a top-10 pick in last week’s draft before the Mills news spooked squads." They said "latest" team...not the "only" team. "Things have changed. Almost every NFL team has contacted Collins, multiple sources said." Izzatso? "The Baltimore Sun reported Tuesday that Collins has begun to eliminate teams as possible landing spots. His agents, the Sun reported, have started informing teams if they’ve made the list." So...if, say the Redskins or Eagles didn't make the list?...What then? And you mean HE gets to decide which teams he wants to meet with?...And which team he wants to sign with?...He told his agent which teams shouldn't even bother trying?...Hmmm... And even without that, you have one team that just went 12-4 and already has a rather young, dominant O-Line and an established QB, while another team just went 7-25 over their last 2 seasons and only has one quality starter on their O-Line and a huge question mark at QB? Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderDOOM Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would've spent a 6th on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would've spent a 6th on him. Cali is spot on. The issue isn't whether or not we should have spent a 4-7th on the the guy. Some of you don't believe he would have held out all year, I do. It's a LOT of money on the line for a possible top 10 pick, and even if he dropped to the back of the first round, it's still a LOT of money to guarantee his future. I have a hard time believing that the guy would rather risk injuring himself and making next to nothing with his team as a UDFA versus being in the position Fowler is in where he tears his ACL on day 1 and he's still guaranteed to get near $20 million regardless of whether or not he gets to play a down in the NFL. Life is not easy on linemen on either side of the ball, or for anyone else for that matter, but they're usually expected to just suck it up and play through their injuries. I mean, how many OL have we heard of with fractures in their arms or hands who've played through them? What other position have you EVER heard of doing that? None. IMO, the guy would have been much smarter to hold out all year. SO, if we were going to get him, it would have been with a pick 1-3. Either we used the day 3 pick, or we assume he's going somewhere else, just like every other team. I would say, since there's rarely a consensus in the NFL, it seems pretty clear that EVERY team thought the smart move was to wait until after the draft and try to sign the guy then, since EVERY team did it. Even Dallas waited until after the draft. It's not as if they used their 7th rounder on him. They too did the smart thing and waited, I would assume, because the likelihood that the guy held out for a year must have been pretty high. After not being drafted, he had no choice BUT to sign with a team, unless he just wanted to play in Canada or find a new career. It was obvious that the best thing for him to do after the draft was sign with a team as a UDFA for as high a signing bonus as he could get (which would have been around the NFL cap for UDFA signing bonus money per team, around $80,000. That's all the money they could guarantee UDFAs combined this year. Last year it was about $70,000). Sure, we could pretend that if he'd wanted to he could have fought the league and maybe re-entered the draft next season, but how has that worked out for the previous two non-NFL players who took the NFL to court over draft issues? (Mike Williams and Maurice Clarett, look it up, both lost). The likelihood that he'd have won was even lower than the likelihood that he would have held out for a year, THAT has actually happened. And if he HAD taken the NFL to court, he's wiping out most of his rookie season anyway, and then he's a UDFA who hasn't played in a year and likely gets next to nothing guaranteed because teams have already spent all their bonuses by then, AND he's missed all the important pre-training camp practices and camps. Every team rolled the dice, and it sounded like 25-28 teams were heavily interested. Dallas was the one that got lucky. Good for them. Now I hope our revamped DL can welcome this young man to the NFL in a way that makes him wish he'd picked a different team. Let's all move on and wait to see how this all turns out. Good luck to Collins and **** Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 coolbeans writes: You can believe what you want to believe. The coach that put the sign up was interviewed and said he did it as motivation for Collins after he missed a class. He said it was never an issue again and he has been a hard worker ever since. Hey, you, too, can believe what you want to believe. I'm not trying to change your mind. He's not our problem. He's the Cowboys' baggage now. Good (or rather bad) luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ugh! Don't remind me. I was hoping the Skins would grab him. Then, when I saw the Packers had taken him it was confirmed to me that he's going to be an awesome QB. I don't know how you guys do it with so many QBs, I'd be happy with ONE! Don't jump the gun on him yet. We've had QBs flop out of the league, too. Where are Brian Brohm, Graham Harrell, and B.J. Coleman? Hundley's a project that will need to hold the clipboard before we see if he's any good. I do like him in a backup role, though, because with him being an athletic QB, they have a tendency of playing beyond their talent level when teams haven't prepared for them, so he could steal a win or two if Rodgers went down (though he'll likely be a gameday inactive for most of the season sitting behind Scott Tolzien unless he shows really well in camp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Don't jump the gun on him yet. We've had QBs flop out of the league, too. Where are Brian Brohm, Graham Harrell, and B.J. Coleman? Hundley's a project that will need to hold the clipboard before we see if he's any good. I do like him in a backup role, though, because with him being an athletic QB, they have a tendency of playing beyond their talent level when teams haven't prepared for them, so he could steal a win or two if Rodgers went down (though he'll likely be a gameday inactive for most of the season sitting behind Scott Tolzien unless he shows really well in camp) Yeah, I understand that (and particularly with Brian Brohm I questioned the pick from the beginning), but you guys definitely hit on a higher percentage than other teams (or your coaches know how to coach them up better than anyone in the league). Here's the deal. You guys raise him up, in 2-3 years we'll sign him in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, I understand that (and particularly with Brian Brohm I questioned the pick from the beginning), but you guys definitely hit on a higher percentage than other teams (or your coaches know how to coach them up better than anyone in the league). Here's the deal. You guys raise him up, in 2-3 years we'll sign him in FA. In 2-3 years you can give us three firsts and a second for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 In 2-3 years you can give us three firsts and a second for him HAHAHAHAhahaa, no deal. We've already tried that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2vegas Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I remember seeing a picture with a note of those who skip team meetings at LSU. Collins name was at the top. Could it be that given the effort to get players with drive, Collins was crossed off for that? He just didn't fit into the way the locker room is headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I remember seeing a picture with a note of those who skip team meetings at LSU. Collins name was at the top. Could it be that given the effort to get players with drive, Collins was crossed off for that? He just didn't fit into the way the locker room is headed. It's clear you didn't read the thread. It's several pages so I don't blame you, but someone posted the picture previously in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderDOOM Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Bo Jackson had baseball. A 300lb Olineman sitting out a whole year was a hand I'da had to call. Hey, GMSM is the expert right and knows best tho. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo'sRangers Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Except that they didn't lose in the first round in the playoffs. They were "gifted". HTTR I am curious if Murray is having buyer's remorse... And I am curious if Dallas will have sellers remorse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Maybe he just wanted to play for the Cowboys? Maybe Scot didn't have him rated as highly as others? Maybe we never had a shot at him as an UDFA? And for the Cowboys to like him as much as they did they still passed over him again and again in the draft. And that isn't due to character concerns because they took Gregory in the second. If it works out for the Cowboys then more power to them but there's an Collins in every draft. We got the better OL, we improved our team and we got guys without major character concerns. Scot knows what he's doing so if he didn't want to touch Collins with a ten foot pole then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The same reasons why none of the other teams did, either. Including the Cowboys. Seriously, people...we have a college player somehow tied either directly or indirectlhy to a murder right before the draft, and whose agent says that if he's drafted by ANY team outside of the first round or two he's gonna sit out the entire year and go to another team...and we wonder why every stinkin' team in the NFL said "No thanks" to him? lol...Really? "We should have used a 7th rounder on him"...Yeah, like being promised minimum wage would have kept him from sitting out the year, spending even more time clearing his name if innocent, and then being drafted in 2016 and making millions of dollars more per year. Being drafted inthe 6th or 7th round would have made his decision to sit out a no-brainer. Dallas got "lucky" in the fact that if the Miami Dolphins were his favorite team growing up he might be signing there instead. Let's not act like the Cowboys were the one team to truly show an interest in him as where the rest of the league just kinda dawdled along not sure what to do... Are you seriously assuming a mid-1stish player could plan on sitting out a year and then just plan on automatically going int he 1st round of next year's deeper draft? That would seem like an utterly self-destructive way for Collins and his agent to plan his future. And if he's not a first rounder next year then your "millions of dollars per year" talk is beyond inaccurate. If he sits out a year and becomes a 2nd rounder next year, then the financial considerations are anything but a "no brainer". It would take until 2017 for him to start totaling more money than he would have had he signed as a late-rounder this year. After 2018 he would have earned about $1 mil more, while being a year from the Free Agency he would be entering if signing. So, that's 1 mil vs a better short term financial situation and a better long-term financial situation, all while running a risk that a year+ away from organized football didn't damage his career permanently. So, no, not anything resembling a "no brainer". But what Collins actually said was that he would sign if drafted in the 3rd round but not in the 4th. Think of how foolish that would be and how much it would cost himself for basically no reason. So why would he say it. Because he was bluffing! Of course, the threat itself, were it to work, would supposedly stop him from being able to re-enter the draft, as he supposedly wanted to do. So, why did he do something that directly stopped him from re-entering the draft? Because he was bluffing! And, again, the idea that he couldn't sit out the year and re-enter the draft is apparently a big gray area in the CBA. Collins had the right to challenge it through arbitration. Instead, the second the draft ended he, rather than even consider looking into re-entering the draft, he instead immediately began soliciting offers for teams to sign with? Why? Because he had been bluffing! He had no intent, ever, of sitting out the season. He just knew he'd be better off as an UDFA than a late-round choice. So he bluffed his way into that situation. And NFL front offices, being habitually willing to accept mediocrity rather than do something a little different/creative, decided they would rather take a 'hey, maybe this guy could make our roster just to play special teams' guy than "risk" a next-to-nothing draft pick on a first round value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 And just to add a little more clarity: "The Dallas Cowboys and Collins have a meeting planned, a source said Wednesday. They are the latest team to come after the former All-Southeastern Conference tackle who some projected as high as a top-10 pick in last week’s draft before the Mills news spooked squads." They said "latest" team...not the "only" team. "Things have changed. Almost every NFL team has contacted Collins, multiple sources said." Izzatso? "The Baltimore Sun reported Tuesday that Collins has begun to eliminate teams as possible landing spots. His agents, the Sun reported, have started informing teams if they’ve made the list." So...if, say the Redskins or Eagles didn't make the list?...What then? And you mean HE gets to decide which teams he wants to meet with?...And which team he wants to sign with?...He told his agent which teams shouldn't even bother trying?...Hmmm... And even without that, you have one team that just went 12-4 and already has a rather young, dominant O-Line and an established QB, while another team just went 7-25 over their last 2 seasons and only has one quality starter on their O-Line and a huge question mark at QB? Hmm... I think you are reading too much into this i think Collins signed with the team who promised the most . I know there were a bunch of teams who publicly or privately ruled Collins out at this stage. Including the Seahawks (who have need on the OL) ourselves and half a dozen more. I am just reminded of SM comments on Collins saying about doing what he and his lawyers needed to do (referring to La'el) before there were any discussions. I think different teams found different things when they did their due diligence . That may have made some teams more hesitant than others - but while I still cannot say - and really no one can say what happened for sure what I can say is different organizations have different priorities . The Redskins and SM don't want the type of distraction this could become at any price . I am sure other teams feel the same. There is a very good chance there is no involvement but until the case is cleared up there will be media interest and that could be a distraction. Other teams dont really care . The Cowboys and their recent diving into the Greg Hardy sweepstakes, apparent pursuit of AP, standing by Brent (until this week) most recently suggest character is not an issue for them ... From Collins point of view I can understand why he signed as soon as he could and with a big market team. As an UDFA I do not think he could have made more than the Cowboys offered if he played this season (although I do wonder about his status if he gets cut oand clears waivers) but it gives his dream of making the NFL alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbeans Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I remember seeing a picture with a note of those who skip team meetings at LSU. Collins name was at the top. Could it be that given the effort to get players with drive, Collins was crossed off for that? He just didn't fit into the way the locker room is headed. They didn't miss team meetings, the missed a class. The strength coach that posted the sign said it was a one time issue with Collins and he was a hard worker since that happened in 2012. It's a total non issue at this point except something for opposing fans to hang their hat on. Good luck with that. Go watch his press conference and see if you think a 3 year sign in the window is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I love the two posters in this thread who were mocking the Cowboys for having too many good players on their OL. Brilliant guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Interesting article on Collins today. One of the things discussed in this article was the thought process of sitting out a year and re-entering the draft. Link is posted below but the interesting language around the threat is bolded. He was never going to sit out. A 7th round pick would have landed Collins for any team. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/15/lael-collins-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-murder-investigation/ “We can put it on the record now: We were never going back in the draft,” Smith says of waiting for the 2016 draft. “If someone had drafted him, we would’ve had a long, long discussion about it, but at the end of the day you can’t go back in the draft. He could get injured, gain weight, or 10 great tackles could come out. Too many risks.” After three rounds, Collins remains undrafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Interesting article on Collins today. One of the things discussed in this article was the thought process of sitting out a year and re-entering the draft. Link is posted below but the interesting language around the threat is bolded. He was never going to sit out. A 7th round pick would have landed Collins for any team. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/15/lael-collins-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-murder-investigation/ “We can put it on the record now: We were never going back in the draft,” Smith says of waiting for the 2016 draft. “If someone had drafted him, we would’ve had a long, long discussion about it, but at the end of the day you can’t go back in the draft. He could get injured, gain weight, or 10 great tackles could come out. Too many risks.” After three rounds, Collins remains undrafted. You mean "I'll sign as a 3rd rounder but not a 4th" was just the bluff it always appeared to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rg31212 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 My own 2 cents: I think out of all of the major professional sports leagues, the NFL is the least player-friendly. Contracts are rarely fully guaranteed, injuries are incredibly common to the point of the game being borderline unplayable, and players are easily replaceable. Since players are so easily replaceable, teams dont want to stand by players that get in trouble. In recent years, some teams have literally taken to cutting players the day after an accusation, and even those that hold on to players stay as far away from even tacitly supporting them in those situations (see AP). As much as they get made fun of, the Cowboys really seem to be the exception. Dez has the cops being called to his house for outrageous stuff, they try to help keep it out of the news and help him with a support system. Randle gets arrested for stealing underwear and perfume, and then again a few months ago for pot possession, and you hear nothing from the team outside of them dealing with it internally. Brent goes drunk driving and kills a fellow team in an accident, goes to jail, and the team stands by him and brings him back to the team afterwards. If I'm a player in the NFL, I'd probably think long and hard about playing for the Cowboys before going somewhere else, no matter how 'clean' I was as a person. It seems like all it takes is a tabloid article or a random accusation (which is not uncommon for professional athletes) and I'd be back on the street without anymore paychecks coming in and few teams willing to give me a chance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 You mean "I'll sign as a 3rd rounder but not a 4th" was just the bluff it always appeared to be? Don't forget this part of the article: "“There was a team that had drafted four offensive linemen,” Smith says, “and they said, ‘We’re taking him.’ And I texted back, ‘You’re going to embarrass yourself. You’re going to waste this pick.’ “And they passed. And now he’s a UDFA.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Don't forget this part of the article: "“There was a team that had drafted four offensive linemen,” Smith says, “and they said, ‘We’re taking him.’ And I texted back, ‘You’re going to embarrass yourself. You’re going to waste this pick.’ “And they passed. And now he’s a UDFA.” OK, I won't forget that he and his agent bluffed again. Not sure why it's important that I not forger it, but I'll try not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 OK, I won't forget that he and his agent bluffed again. Not sure why it's important that I not forger it, but I'll try not to. It's ok if you don't get it...I'm pretty sure most everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Why does it matter if a 7th rounder holds out? Do you really expect a 7th rounder to make an impact? But for us redskins fans, a draft pick is a luxury lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Why does it matter if a 7th rounder holds out? Do you really expect a 7th rounder to make an impact? But for us redskins fans, a draft pick is a luxury lol He wouldn't be an ordinary 7th rounder, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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