Which Player Woud You Select at #5?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Ok, just so I'm clear...you're saying the facts that, for the last 20 years, teams have pick Guards in the top 10 maybe 3 or 4 times and most of the top Guards in the NFL were picked between the 2nd and 4th rounds isn't actually an indication that GMs and scouts know what they're doing and realize that you can get top notch Guards outside of the first and hence it is very very rarely necessary to spend a high 1st round pick on them...it is an indication that all these GMs and scouts are just lemmings who follow the herd.

 

Got it.

While its not the traditional choice, this years draft is different as the best offensive lineman, who was also the best college lineman (at tackle), is projected to be better at guard in the pros.  But is also versatile enough to play both tackle positions at the pro level.

 

He is projected to be a good tackle in the pros, but a great guard.  Also projected top 10 draft pick.  I don't think its a stretch at all to take him at #5 if that is who Scot has as BPA when our pick comes around.  

 

The Giants and Rams have shown interest in him at #9 and #10.  Trading back, the only partners we would have would be the Jets, Bears, Falcons.  Two projected to draft either OLB or DE (Jets and Falcons), one projected to go WR (Bears).  The Jets and Bears are most likely not going to trade up, which would leave the Falcons, only if the player they want will not make it to them at #8.  

 

Which brings up the point, we probably won't get a pick worth a lot of value trading back 2-3 spots, so if thats the guy you want, pull the trigger at #5.

No, my argument is that obviously GMs and scouts realize that top quality Guards can be found all over the draft with good scouting, and that it is very rarely necessary to pick one high in the 1st, if in the 1st at all. I think THAT is where we have been falling short for a long time. We have had terrible FO people making decisions on who to draft. I would have MUCH more confidence in a 2nd or 3rd round Guard taken by SM than one taken by Vinny or Shanny or Bruce. 

 

And being the first to pick a Guard in the draft doesn't mean you should reach and draft one at #5 overall or even in the top 10 unless the guy is pretty much a can't miss all world talent, which Scherff isn't. 

So you wouldn't have confidence in Scherff at #5 if that's who Scot wants?  

[Jericho]

Assuming the 2 QBs go, I was hoping for either Cooper or Williams to fall. If neither do, then I suppose Fowler would be the choice. But I really don't love Fowler. I'm just not sure there's any other elite prospects. Except maybe Gurley

[Wildbunny]

No, my argument is that obviously GMs and scouts realize that top quality Guards can be found all over the draft with good scouting, and that it is very rarely necessary to pick one high in the 1st, if in the 1st at all. I think THAT is where we have been falling short for a long time. We have had terrible FO people making decisions on who to draft. I would have MUCH more confidence in a 2nd or 3rd round Guard taken by SM than one taken by Vinny or Shanny or Bruce.

And being the first to pick a Guard in the draft doesn't mean you should reach and draft one at #5 overall or even in the top 10 unless the guy is pretty much a can't miss all world talent, which Scherff isn't.

Well, my argument is that those coach and GM miss way too many on picks to be really trustworthy in their job. When you have 7 picks and only get 1 or 2 valuable players out of it is not that great of a result.

[MR2Drift]

White easily, while Copper is great his strengths lend more to a QB who is in sync with his receivers and good with timing routes. White on the other hand is tall, aggressive and is able to win those contested balls by high pointing the ball. With our QB situation not settled, White's talents are more friendly to mediocre QB play.

 

 

 

 

[Morrison J]

I'm taking

White over Cooper

Beasley over Fowler

Dupree over Fowler

Not touching Trae Waynes or Shane Ray.

It really comes down to three players for me. Williams, Beasley or Dupree in that order.

[markmills67]

From what I've read about the draft from all the experts I am almost certain that Winston, Mariota, Williams and Cooper will be the top 4. If we stay at 5 I would still go Fowler but with White still being available hopefully we can trade down a few spots and then I would pick Sherff.

[Wyndorf25]

I have changed my picks.

 

1.  Williams

2.  Cooper

3.  Dupree

3.  Scherff

 

Since I see both QB's and Williams gone with the first three picks and every mock draft has Cooper gone at 4, I think the skins will go Dupree or Scherff. 

 

I don't see GMSM trading up and will pick whoever he rates highest on his draft board.

 

Dupree over Beasley and Fowler at number 5? Seriously? I'm certainly no scout, I'm just going on what Ive read and seen doing research on these guys, but nowhere have I seen Dupree lauded as a top 5 pick, especially going before Beasley and Fowler are taken.

[Morrison J]

Dupree over Beasley and Fowler at number 5? Seriously? I'm certainly no scout, I'm just going on what Ive read and seen doing research on these guys, but nowhere have I seen Dupree lauded as a top 5 pick, especially going before Beasley and Fowler are taken.

Dupree is more upside than those two mentioned. He's a bit raw and was held back in Kentuckys scheme asked to play in coverage a lot. He has that combination of size and explosiveness you want though.

My 3rd favourite player in the whole draft personally. Think he's going to be a pretty special player with a bit of coaching.

[Wyndorf25]

Dupree is more upside than those two mentioned. He's a bit raw and was held back in Kentuckys scheme asked to play in coverage a lot. He has that combination of size and explosiveness you want though.

My 3rd favourite player in the whole draft personally. Think he's going to be a pretty special player with a bit of coaching.

 

Fair enough, but with the 5th overall I'd think you want a more polished player. Trading back and grabbing Dupree seems like the more prudent move but heck, if the guy can play then it doesn't really matter where you get him. That is sort of my view on Scherff. If the Redskins took him at 5, I'd be fine with it even though conventional wisdom is not to take a Guard that high, but I just think he will be a solid NFL player for years and isn't that really the objective?

[Wyndorf25]

Two things regarding my views headed into this draft: 1) I trust Scot and 2) I have no friggin clue as to what he plans to do. And I am completely fine with that mostly because of 1. I can't remember a year where even after all the research on players I've done, matched them with the needs of this team and in the end, I still expect to be be somewhat surprised.

[Morrison J]

Fair enough, but with the 5th overall I'd think you want a more polished player. Trading back and grabbing Dupree seems like the more prudent move but heck, if the guy can play then it doesn't really matter where you get him. That is sort of my view on Scherff. If the Redskins took him at 5, I'd be fine with it even though conventional wisdom is not to take a Guard that high, but I just think he will be a solid NFL player for years and isn't that really the objective?

Yep ideally I'd trade back for him but seems like he's finally getting the draft buzz he's deserved. He'll go in the top 10 I think so trading back is more likely to land you a Gregory or Ray out of the edge rushers I think. 

 

Agreed with your reasoning on Scherff too. I like him a lot as a safe, can't miss pick but theres a number of guards I like later in the draft too. Edge rushers drop off a bit of a cliff after Harold goes start of 2nd round so not the same value there for me. I'm looking to sort edge rusher out with our first pick personally. Get either Beasley or Dupree and I'll be delighted.

[DogofWar1]

Regarding Fowler/Beasley/Dupree/Ray/Gregory, it kinds of depends what you covet, completeness, or pure edge rushing ability.

 

Dante Fowler can come in day one and play every snap in every capacity of the game.  He is like, 90% complete.  Graded positively in run defense AND coverage, and was one of the best interior rushers from the LB position.  He doesn't have the explosiveness on the edge Beasley or Dupree does, but he's vastly more well rounder and is still no slouch from the edge.

 

Beasley is very much a specialist at this point.  Don't get me wrong, in terms of purely "edge rushing" he's the top of the class.  Problem is, the rest of his game is not nearly at that same level.  He's not bad rushing the interior, but he's way better speeding around the outside.  He's, at this point, a liability in the run game most likely.  He's decent in coverage at this time.

 

Dupree is a little less explosive off the edge compared to Beasley, and lacks some of his strength, but is fairly similar; liability in run game at this time, can drop into coverage, more of an exterior rusher than an interior one.

 

I think Ray and Gregory are out of top 5 contention at this point.

 

 

With completeness in mind, I'd prefer Fowler significantly over Beasley (and even further over Dupree).

 

Beasley just cannot be on every snap at this point.  If he was better in the run game, perhaps, but at this time, at this level, if he's on the field, he rushes from edge, and ideally we'd have someone more well rounded than that.

 

Fowler is, IMO, the 2nd most complete player in this draft, behind Williams, a hair ahead of Cooper (Cooper would probably be most complete overall if not for drops) and is among that first tier of guys (with Winston).  Beasley, with his specialization, has to be relegated to that 2nd tier with guys like Scherff, Mariota, White, etc.  Fowler and Kerrigan would create a very strong duo, and Fowler could raise the entire defense.  Beasley raises the defense too, but because you sorta have to combine his pass rush with Murphy run defense to get one complete player, it's sorta a cumbersome proposition.

 

Fowler over Beasley, then Dupree as 3rd.

 

Though actually, thinking about it, if we're in range to take Dupree, I'd start looking at Ray again.

 

Consider these two:

Pass Rushing Productivity: Dupree 21st, Ray 22nd

3rd Down PRP: Dupree 19th, Ray 16th

Run Stop %: Ray 9th, Dupree unlisted in top 20

(pulled info from PFF's CFF Edge Rusher Sig Stats article)

 

Ray's viciousness on tape won me over in the past, I might make the listing Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Dupree/Gregory

 

Skillwise, Gregory is better than that spot, but of course, weed kills (careers).

 

_________________

 

I like Cooper way over White for a young QB.  Yes, White is tall, fast and competitive, but Cooper runs far crisper routes, builds more separation, and is no slouch in the speed or competitiveness department either.

 

If RGIII is starting this year, you pick Cooper, no question.

 

Why?

 

RGIII always was worried about pulling the trigger.  He needed to see players BEING open instead of throwing them open.

 

Yes, that's a flaw, a big one, but I think some of that failure stems from confidence.  Get him a player like Cooper who can put zip codes between himself and a defender, and suddenly RGIII might just get a little back on track.

 

White is probably the better option if we're rolling with Cousins, height and competitiveness makes him a wee bit better for a reckless gunslinger like Cousin,s but honestly, for as much as people talk about Gruden not liking RGIII, he didn't seem to like Cousins there much either.

 

And even taking that into account, at the end of the day, regardless of whoever your young QB is, he's going to grow more efficiently and appreciate a guy like Cooper, who creates his own separation, over someone like White, who's less polished at that.  And Cooper's skillset is the kind that can fit any system for a decade.  White needs to get better on routes or he'll be too one-dimensional.  Maybe not quite Mike Wallace level of "good for a while, but too incomplete to maintain," but you get the idea.

[Burgold]

 

 

If RGIII is starting this year, you pick Cooper, no question.

 

Why?

 

RGIII always was worried about pulling the trigger.  He needed to see players BEING open instead of throwing them open.

I know we're talking about the first rounder and so this comment may not be totally appropriate, but if we're picking for RGIII's sake then we need to get a guard. It's the pressure up the middle and not the receivers that kill him. He got to the point where he looks for the pressure first before looking down field. Grant, Garcon, Jackson Reed and even Robertson are far better a corp than Brady has. In fact, it's better than most NFL teams have.

 

Fix the line.

[DogofWar1]

I know we're talking about the first rounder and so this comment may not be totally appropriate, but if we're picking for RGIII's sake then we need to get a guard. It's the pressure up the middle and not the receivers that kill him. He got to the point where he looks for the pressure first before looking down field. Grant, Garcon, Jackson Reed and even Robertson are far better a corp than Brady has. In fact, it's better than most NFL teams have.

 

Fix the line.

Oh definitely, got to fix the, but I don't really like Scherff at 5, as much as it would please me to imagine us handing in our draft card with Scherff on it and simultaneously handing Chester his walking papers.

 

If we trade down, suddenly guys like Collins, Flowers, and Peat (and even Clemmings if we go far enough) start making more sense than Scherff at 5.

 

The OL is at least two guys short of decent (RG, RT), and that's assuming:

1. Age doesn't get to Lich

2. Lauvao can slide back to RG if we replace him at LG

 

It's probably a 2-3 year overhaul, which is why us ignoring the OL so much between 2012 and now is so baffling.

 

Still, I wouldn't want us to take a likely future OG like Scherff at 5.  Not when guys like Williams, Cooper, or Fowler might be on the board.  Too much other talent.  If we're dead set on an OL, trade back and look for Collins, Peat, or Flowers, or take an OG or OT in the early 2nd.

[SkinsGuy]

If Winston and Mariota go 1-2 in the draft (not a guarantee yet), that will leave Williams, White, Fowler, and Cooper on the board. With just two more picks ahead of the Redskins.

That means that the Redskins will be getting a blue chip player that could be great for them for years to come (unless Washington trades down).

I'm excited for this Thursday.

[Stefanskins]

Me too!!! Looks like Fowler is running away with this..I'm cool with anything Scot chooses.. but today I'm starting to lean towards trading back with Cleveland.. seems there is a lot of talent in this draft that with 9 - 10 picks could turn this franchise around...this year!! HTTR

[s0crates]

Why aren't Ereck Flowers and Andrus Peat getting more mentions?

Is it really possible the the top offensive line prospect is a guard?

I'm still in the school of thought that says massive linemen are the type of rare commodities you pursue in the first round.

[Alexa]

The guy did win a Super Bowl MVP award though, so he wasn't a total bust. He was just a bust for us.

He was a bust as far as being a professional WR is concerned. That's what he was drafted to do here and failed miserably.

[DogofWar1]

Why aren't Ereck Flowers and Andrus Peat getting more mentions?

Is it really possible the the top offensive line prospect is a guard?

I'm still in the school of thought that says massive linemen are the type of rare commodities you pursue in the first round.

They're not on the same level as guys like Trent coming out of college.  Unfortunately no one this year is.  Peat, Flowers, and to a lesser extent guys like Clemmings, Humphries, and Fisher, are all good with high potential, but aren't sure LTs at this level.  Any OL in the top 10 needs to be an immediate starter, usually on the left side.

 

Scherff can be an immediate LG.  Collins gets close but is more likely to be an immediate RT with that being where he's best.

 

Peat and Flowers have good potential for LT in the future, but there are some holes, and that keeps them out of the top 10.  May need to start inside or on the right side and kick over in a year.

[s0crates]

Thanks for the response.

I'm seeing these guys (Peat, Flowers, and Scherff) coming off the board in the 10-20 range of a lot of mocks. Would it really be that much of a reach to take the one we like best at 5?

I remember people thinking we reached for TW too . . .

[Hitman#21]

Cooper, Beasley, Fowler.

[RedBeast]

I am almost positive we are trading down if the opportunity presents itself unless Fowler or Williams drop into our lap. I also don't think SM would take Cooper or White at 5. I am almost positive we won't be taking Scherff at 5, or any other OL at 5. I agree with Socrates about the 10-20 range for OL but think Scherff might go a tad earlier i.e. NYG at 9

Who knows? Just my SWAG. We'll see in 4 days

[Burgold]

It's weird. A month ago, I was so pro-trading down. Now, as we're here I don't know what I want most. Okay, what I want most is for Williams to fall or to trade back... but I have to admit to being curious about getting one of the super blue chippers.

[Laron Burgundy]

I am almost positive we are trading down if the opportunity presents itself unless Fowler or Williams drop into our lap. I also don't think SM would take Cooper or White at 5. I am almost positive we won't be taking Scherff at 5, or any other OL at 5. I agree with Socrates about the 10-20 range for OL but think Scherff might go a tad earlier i.e. NYG at 9

Who knows? Just my SWAG. We'll see in 4 days

 

All the better, Paea would do some work against him.

[DogofWar1]

Worth mentioning, I get the feeling Oakland is going Cooper at #4.

 

Just a hunch.  Like, they've gone Carr now.  Sure, he's not Manning, but you've got to develop him nonetheless.  Before he trotted along, you could keep adding to the defense.  But now, I think they go BPA on offense, and that's Cooper.

 

Mariota seemingly is too hot to make it to 5 at this point.  Titans might grab him, or make a trade.  If not, probably 3 or 4 will move.

 

JAX is the real wild card here.  Can't tell if they'd prefer Fowler or Williams here.

We might end up with whoever they don't choose.