Eagles trade Lesean McCoy to Buffalo

[PortisBetts]

He will be 27 in July.  This is what happens to RBs once they hit 27:

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

 

Yet, Darren Sproles will be 31....

[Destino]

He will be 27 in July. This is what happens to RBs once they hit 27:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

According to that chart 27 is their best year and that for the next two they'll be at least as productive as 23 year old running backs. I know the slope is scary but the data says he's got at least three left on age as a statistic, including his best year.

Also a declining Shady is probably better than 95% of the younger running backs coming into, it currently in, the NFL. This move wasn't about age, it was about getting rid of a personality Chip didn't care for. I'm just glad that this time the team didn't make up rumors about gang ties to cover what they were up to.

[TexasSkinsFan]

You give up an established premier catch/run threat 27yo RB for an unproven 24yo OLB coming off a torn ACL? And you don't get picks back? Just a heads up swap? I don't get it.

 

 

Nothing much to get. Kelly is a dictator and once again shipped talented players out of town because they wouldn't do what he demanded them to do

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/28/more-talk-in-philly-that-mccoy-may-be-asked-to-take-a-pay-cut/

 

He wouldn't take a paycut so they moved him. They took what they could get - a broken LBer with 2 ACL tears - and the Eagles fans are excusing losing its best player as some sort of good move for them to make. Not much more to it then that

[Bliz]

The only thing I'm not really understanding is how Chip Kelly thinks he is going to recruit any Free Agents.. He clearly has shown a complete lack of loyalty to ANY player. Just look at the guys he is letting go; Trent Cole a 10 year vet with the team, McCoy their number one offensive weapon, and Brandon Graham a young pro coming off a solid season and rookie contract.

 

Not to mention Alonso is coming off a torn ACL which may limit his agility, taking away from the "best pass coverage LB" that some of you have touted him as, despite playing 1 year of football on a strong Buffalo defense. 

 

Call me wary, but this isn't college where players come and go every 3-4 years. This is the NFL where grown men are trying to make a living, and I'm sure are not interested in signing a contract that may not be fulfilled no matter your level of play or commitment to the team. 

 

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/free-agents-leery-of-chip-kelly/256603

 

 

Jason Cole of Bleacher report spoke to several NFL players about Kelly’s surprising decision to trade LeSean McCoy to the Buffalo Bills. The sense he got was that free agents may now be discouraged from signing with the Eagles.

 

“In talking to players around the league about this move, they were left a little leery of Chip Kelly and asking, ‘What exactly is he doing?'” Cole said Wednesday. “It’s not just LeSean McCoy. He’s let go of Todd Herremans, he’s let go of Cary Williams, he’s let go of Trent Cole. This is a year after letting go of DeSean Jackson.”

 

Cole had been one of Philly’s best pass-rushers throughout his 11-year career, and he was not shy about expressing his displeasure over the team letting him go.

 

“You have to wonder if players are going to sit there and say, ‘I’m not sure if I want to play for the Eagles because I’m not sure if Chip Kelly is going to hang onto good players over the long run or value himself in the process,'” Cole added.

 

[Bacon]

He didn't tear the same ACL twice.  Maclin did, and was a beast.  Kiko tore the ACL in each knee.

 

Wow. Don't make him sound too appealing now, you may be disappointed.

[Saul Goodman]

This move wasn't about age, it was about getting rid of a personality Chip didn't care for. 

 

well....that and clearing an additional TEN MILLION of cap space.   This is a business, 50 million of cap space is better than 40 million.  

[Excel]

It's going to be funny to watch the genius Chip Kelly's offense struggle to move the ball without any good players, just like they struggled to make big plays last year without D Jax.

 

Buffalo plays Philly this year too. I bet McCoy burns his former team to cost them a shot at the playoffs, just like Jackson did last year.

You are over inflating Jackson's worth. They actually had as many big plays as the year before until Foles went down, and Sanchez took over. That was mostly due to Sanchez's lack of arm strength, and the inability of the offensive line to get on the field. 

[Excel]

He will be 27 in July.  This is what happens to RBs once they hit 27:

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

He'll be 27 but McCoy wasn't a physical runner. He's more East-West, and hit the dirt before he got crushed. He's probably got another good 3 years.

 

It will be fun to watch if he can repeat the success he had in Philly.

 

For those saying McCoy was a problem player, he wasn't. A majority of his teammates liked him. Kelly likes him. He just didn't like his running style, and the amount of times he ran into negative plays. He also didn't like the salary, and McCoy refused a pay cut.

 

It was not the same circumstances as Desean Jackson. There were no players openly happy he was gone.

[grego]

You are over inflating Jackson's worth. They actually had as many big plays as the year before until Foles went down, and Sanchez took over. That was mostly due to Sanchez's lack of arm strength, and the inability of the offensive line to get on the field. 

 

i'm sticking with - 'getting rid of one of the top deep threat playmaker WR's on your team hurts your offense'. 

 

every team suffers injuries. everything you'd expect to happen by getting rid of jackson happened. mccoys production suffered, the QB production dropped dramatically, yards per play suffered- virtually every offensive measurable was down from '13.

 

could it be a matter of injuries? its possible. at the same time, you cant have it both ways (if youre chip). play suffered cuz sanchez was playing for an injured foles? foles' numbers were down from last year, and that had nothing to do with sanchez.

 

so, is it the system, as kelly seems to think? or is it the players? kellys gotten rid of his two biggest playmakers the past 2 seasons (while giving the likes of riley cooper a 25 mil contract.....). after getting rid of the first one- production dropped.and he missed the playoffs, finishing the season pathetically (losing to a terrible redskins team- another loss when you needed a win).

 

if his offense cant be good enough to beat good teams in year three after getting rid of jackson and mccoy, he'll be looking for employment elsewhere (though, hopefully not, for my teams sake....why can i not get the image of mike shanahan out of my head????)

[Taylor703]

Why do people still entertain Westy? I just don't get it? He trolls so hard and people just give him what he wants.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

You are over inflating Jackson's worth. They actually had as many big plays as the year before until Foles went down, and Sanchez took over. That was mostly due to Sanchez's lack of arm strength, and the inability of the offensive line to get on the field. 

 

Foles pass attempts:

 

2013: 317

2014: 311

 

Foles completions of 40+ yards:

 

2013 (with Jackson): 13...4th in the NFL

2014 (without Jackson): 7...29th in the NFL

 

 

Sanchez vs. Foles, Pass attempts:

 

Foles - 311

Sanchez - 309

 

Sanchez vs. Foles, completions of 40+ yards:

 

Foles - 7

Sanchez - 6

 

Sanchez vs. Foles, yards per attempt:

 

Foles - 7.0

Sanchez - 7.8

 

 

And just for fun...

 

Sanchez vs. Foles vs. Grffin, pass attempts:

 

Foles - 311

Sanchez - 309

Griffin - 214

 

Sanchez vs. Foles vs. Griffin, completions of 40+ yards:

 

Foles - 7

Sanchez - 6

Griffin - 8

[Saul Goodman]

im just po'd with the bills.   Its hard enough competing against teams like the Eagles who win 10 + games a year it seems like every year since I started watching football!

 

but the Bills keep SCREWING THE REDSKINS and the others in the division by agreeing to be the Eagles abuse victim.......

 

just look:

While the Redskins had to spent 2 TOP 5 Draft Picks in a decade's time to cover the LT position (Samuels and Williams), the Eagles simply give the Bills a FIFTH ROUNDER and the Bills give them a guy who's having a borderline Hall of Fame career!

The Redskins have had kicking problems all my life, whether it be field goals or kicking the ball off deep...the Eagles had a perennial pro bowler for years with David Akers (from washington!).  And when he got old, they had a stop gap who struggled...and what do they do?  They go back to the Bills, give them a 5th rounder again, and all the Bills do is give them a PRO BOWL kicker who's kickoffs also go out of the end zone much much more than Forbath...

 

and when the Eagles are wanting to clear more cap space so that they can sign a bunch of defensive free agents to improve their defense  -  who do they call?  Why...the bills again!  Who oblige by taking 10 million of their hands (and not requiring the eagles to take any of the salary themselves!) and oh by the way throw in a young talented rookie of the year 2 years ago linebacker to help them along even further..!

 

(the bills also gave the cowboys a first round draft pick a decade ago for JP friggin Losman!  The bills have been making the redskins job in their division even more difficult by fueling the other teams with assanine trades for years

[redskins55]

So for everyone who thinks this was a good move for the eagles, how did that Desean Jackson thing work out last year for them??? 

[Saul Goodman]

So for everyone who thinks this was a good move for the eagles, how did that Desean Jackson thing work out last year for them???

What does that have to do with this?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

What does that have to do with this?

 

My guess is that he means the moves that conventional football wisdom has deemed "great moves" by the Eagles over the last several years have rarely panned out ($100 mil contract to Michael Vick, "Dream Team", all-star secondary "nobody will be able to pass against", Foles will be seen as "the best QB in the division", releasing D. Jackson...), and he's reminding people not to get too ahead of themselves by fretting this trade.

[grego]

My guess is that he means the moves that conventional football wisdom has deemed "great moves" by the Eagles over the last several years have rarely panned out ($100 mil contract to Michael Vick, "Dream Team", all-star secondary "nobody will be able to pass against", Foles will be seen as "the best QB in the division", releasing D. Jackson...), and he's reminding people not to get too ahead of themselves by fretting this trade.

So many 'great' moves, yet.......

Not sure what the Texans are thinking.

Think of all the cap space they could clear if they cut JJ Watt.

Lol. Stupid Texans.

[Taco Bell]

See, when you are looking at this trade through the lens of the organizational level, there is no way the bills won this trade, and it's not even close.  This is the ultimate difference between a team like the Bills (or like us - and hopefully no longer with SM here) and the Eagles. 

 

The trade for Cassel is the exact microcosm why, and it only took a day before the answer became clear.  The only thing I held out hope for in terms of giving the Eagles the definitive victory of the trade was waiting to see what the Bills were going to do at QB, and now that the answer is pretty much here, it shows exactly why trading for an expensive RB unless you are literally 1 player away (and not at QB) is a fruitless move.  Your team better be built the proper way, like the way the Ravens or Pats or Packers are, and then only if that team is 1 player away should a trade like this occur.  

 

I think I have finally come to terms with the innate differences between an organization who's mission is to win SBs vs one like ours (and Bills) that takes into account entertainment factor and "competitiveness" or "great product on the field" on a fragmented year to year basis. 

 

The eagles by making their trade are sticking to their core values as an organization by trading a player away who is at a less premium position for a player that is younger, capable of playing longer due to position, and is paid what 1/10th? of the price. And, when healthy, showed was a top tiered player at their position, so even ranked at their positions is not that much lower head to head.  Meaning, disregarding all the other aspects that fall in a landslide for the eagles here, the head to head matchup isn't all that far apart.  The only extra risk the eagles are taking is an injury risk, but, a player that misses an additional 1-2 years even but has a 10 year career otherwise is still more valuable than a 3-5 year running back.  The injury risk would be of more concern in a trade of almost any other position, but RB almost has their own built in "injury" risk in that their time frame is generally shorter than almost any other player of equivalent age at any juncture of time. 

 

And, make no mistake about it, Kiko was awesome his rookie year and is a prototypical size for today's NFL in pass coverage.   Which, in addition to pure size also proved to be proficient in actual play too, as a rookie. 

 

And, while McCoy still piled up stats last year, he's not quite the barry sanders he fancies himself where he can just run one way then flip the run back like how he has tried to still do this past year and it hasn't worked as often as before.  I don't discount the East-West criticisms as some sort of excuse to get rid of him.  He's not the greatest fit for an obviously no-nonsense type offensive coach, and again, at that price, things like that start to matter.  

 

So, in the end, the Eagles are still in the same trajectory as they were the day before the trade keeping a long term eye on SBs, while the bills now are under this false assumption of "win now" which is both based on owning an expensive RB which you don't want to waste the years of as well as making a plan C or D move by getting Cassel.  The bills did all of this and might get 9 or 10 win seasons, but won't have a real chance at the SB and then when this micro window closes will be worse off and be more likely to truly rebuild instead of following a steady plan.  This is the difference between a model NFL franchise and one that wants to be competitive but doesn't have all their priorities straight.  Trading for Cassel shows just how bad their current QB situation was, and we all know Cassel is "just a guy."  Meaning, and predictably, the trade for McCoy shouldn't have happened based on their QB situation, since it's painfully obvious at this point you need an upper tier QB to even get in the SB discussion, which is where you better be when you are taking on an expensive RB in the nfl today. 

 

I know Buffalo also saw Kiko as a luxury, especially with a new coach coming in, so alot of people can look at it like they got a free upgrade which makes it "feel" like the Bills won the trade.  But, teams don't win SBs this way.  Even the Seahawks didn't build their team this way which is the most hopeful story the bills can strive for.  A cheaper Marshawn Lynch up to this point is only going to get a deal similar to McCoys after they already won a SB, and after they found their QB who definitely helped facilitate that SB.  In essence, the Seahawks are still in 1 player away/already there mode, so keeping Lynch with a bigger deal actually makes more sense for them, if they decide to do it.

 

Ultimately, I am choosing to side on what I find to be the more important of the two sides of the debate, the organizational aspects of deciding who wins this trade, because I in the end care more from the top level first to know my chain isn't getting pulled (thus being a redskins fan is torture lol) about the team's ultimate priorities vs. winning a trade that on paper seems like a winner by virtue of it being almost a can't lose trade since Alonso didn't play last year. But, in reality, this is making the team seem more competitive in the short term and leaving the long term up in the air, which actually hampers both until you finally make the commitment to long term goals first without compromising.  I also know that the cap seems to be ballooning where a "high priced" RB is not necessarily the cap burden it used to be, but it still allocates resources that are willingly being used that could willingly be used elsewhere. 

 

I am essentially saying no on field performance by the bills matters here unless they win the SB, on the organizational principles of why taking a high priced RB in today's NFL is wrong from an odds/long run perspective.  Rex and the bills are betting on themselves here and while that's nice it could lead to yet another burnout type situation with Rex where they look tough and competitive at first but slowly lose their foundation after a few years by trying to win now.  Which is where all the organizational stuff comes into play.

[pjfootballer]

You are over inflating Jackson's worth. They actually had as many big plays as the year before until Foles went down, and Sanchez took over. That was mostly due to Sanchez's lack of arm strength, and the inability of the offensive line to get on the field.

Washington as a team had 20 plays of 40+ yards. Philly had 13 as a team. DeSean had 13 by himself this year.

[mike42]

Ouch! Buffalo got screwed in this deal. Never trade good LB for a RB. I don't care if the RB is the new Thurman Thomas. Buffalo has lots of holes to feel and running back won't fix it.

 

Kiko has a promising future. Already winning numerous ROY awards. Sadly, it is a brilliant move by Chip Kelly. Chip will find someone else to carry the ball for 1,500 years next season. Chip has a successful system.

 

The only problem Chip will face is the tension between his players on this approach.

[Westbrook36]

I'm starting to get worried/excited that Chip is saying **** it and is going to go all in on Mariotta, especially if he falls to pick 6.  On one hand, I love Foles, and think he is good enough.  On the other hand, Chip has been influenced by BB, who believes its all about the QB, OL and system on offense.  If Chip thinks he needs Mariotta to have his offense really be run on all cylinders, who am I to question that.  However, honestly, it scares the **** out of me.

[Bliz]

There was an article about the Eagles and Jets supposedly having parameters worked out for a trade up to 6, if Mariota falls that far

 

Interesting decision on the NYJ side, if true.  I have to believe that Foles is part of the deal, and Jets have decided that he fits with what they want to do.

 

Either way it will make things super interesting for us at #5.  Trying to convince other suitors to trade with us to get in front of that NYJ pick.  Maybe bluffing to Eagles that we have a willing trade partner and trying to get their boatload of picks/players for ourselves.

 

oh to be a fly on the wall...

[MartinC]

Kiko tore the ACL in each knee.

You seem to be implying this is nothing to worry about ...

[ExoDus84]

Honestly, it's probably a slightly better deal for the eagles, though it depends on what they do with the extra $10M in cap space. In back to back offseasons, they've lost both of their best playmakers on offense. I would expect their offensive potency to go down. They have a ton of cap space now, though. RB just isn't as premium a position as it used to be. McCoy is probably a better all around player than Alf, but he also costs 9x as much. Coaches, more than ever before, believe their systems can make up for a less talented RB. If Chips ahoy believes he can get by with less talent, then good for him. He now has a bunch more cap space to try and solve other issues.

 

It's a bad trade for Buffalo, though. Kiko is solid, and adding on McCoy's bloated salary, even if he plays well, probably wasn't worth it. They could have gotten by with Jackson and Spiller, or drafted a replacement since Spiller is now a FA. They didn't need to dump so much money into the RB position.

[Saul Goodman]

Honestly, it's probably a slightly better deal for the eagles, though it depends on what they do with the extra $10M in cap space. 

they're gonna need that money laundered.  in that case.....they better call Saul!

[bedlamVR]

im just po'd with the bills.   Its hard enough competing against teams like the Eagles who win 10 + games a year it seems like every year since I started watching football!

 

but the Bills keep SCREWING THE REDSKINS and the others in the division by agreeing to be the Eagles abuse victim.......

 

just look:

While the Redskins had to spent 2 TOP 5 Draft Picks in a decade's time to cover the LT position (Samuels and Williams), the Eagles simply give the Bills a FIFTH ROUNDER and the Bills give them a guy who's having a borderline Hall of Fame career!

Um no . The eagles traded a 1st 4th and late round pick for peters who was a malcontent in buffalo And the two guys we have picked .... Williams is very very good on a talent devoid line . And Chris Samuels should be in discussion for hof career and was on a par with Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden .... Not sure where you were going with that one .

It will be interesting how this all pans out with Kelly . He seems to be aggressively reconstructing a team that really did not need to go though a rebuild . They had hit with the draft in 2008 and 2009 and should have players in their prime on championship team instead they have a ton of cap room and less talent . The thing is cap only matters when you get into a situation like the Saints where you have to dump good players because you cannot afford them .

Yes players get paid obseenly large amounts of money to play a game but even a guy on vet min makes an obseenly large amount compared to say a high school teacher or army ranger . But teams get an obseenly large amount of money by TV companies to let them show games on their networks ... My point is fans should not really care about what players are paid as long as they are playing well ... I cannot imagine say the Eagles go into the season with 50+ million in cap space they are not going to give season ticket holders a reduced price on their tickets .

I cannot see this as a win for the eagles an as skins fans we have seen this before . Steve spurrier had a really good running back in Stephen Davis who had just been given a monster deal by Spurriers predecessor Marty Shottenhiemer . Spurrier decided Davis could not work in his "system" and we ended up cutting him . Davis then went to the Panthers and took them to the Super Bowl . That was the extent of his career there as it went downhill quickly for him from there but we ended up trying to replace him with guys like Chad Morton and Trung Candate who were better "system" fits .

As I said before players win games not systems .. Also as eagles fans should be aware there is not special trophy for financial responsibility . Being cheep is probably what cost the Eagles a Super Bowl in the early 2000s when they were dominant .