balki1867 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think the Rodgers angle early in this thread is pretty interesting too. Everyone says he's going to shatter Brady's numbers but I think a lot of people underestimate his age-- he's already 31 years old. If he plays at his current pace, it'll take him ~6 years to catch Brady in pass yardage (25k yards behind), 4-5 years to catch him in TD passes (~165 behind), and he's also behind 5 Super Bowl appearances, and three championships. And that's all assuming that Brady never plays another down. If Rodgers gets the same career longevity that Brady has, its pretty realistic that he'll destroy Brady's numbers (aside from the Super Bowl-related ones). But Rodgers already lost a couple of years sitting behind Favre at the start of his career. And Brady is an extreme outlier in terms of playing at a high level into old age. I'm not so sure we can just assume that Rodgers can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think the Rodgers angle early in this thread is pretty interesting too. Everyone says he's going to shatter Brady's numbers but I think a lot of people underestimate his age-- he's already 31 years old. If he plays at his current pace, it'll take him ~6 years to catch Brady in pass yardage (25k yards behind), 4-5 years to catch him in TD passes (~165 behind), and he's also behind 5 Super Bowl appearances, and three championships. And that's all assuming that Brady never plays another down. If Rodgers gets the same career longevity that Brady has, its pretty realistic that he'll destroy Brady's numbers (aside from the Super Bowl-related ones). But Rodgers already lost a couple of years sitting behind Favre at the start of his career. And Brady is an extreme outlier in terms of playing at a high level into old age. I'm not so sure we can just assume that Rodgers can do the same. Yep, I agree with this. While he suffered no wear and tear (mileage on his body) sitting as QB in waiting for 3 years, your body still ages. Not to mention he already got injured in 2013 and only played in 9 games that season, then the injury he suffered this year. Awesome QB to watch, should play at an elite level, baring no major injuries at least 6 more years. But like you said, Brady just won another Super Bowl. He ain't quittin, they don't have a QB in waiting there in NE (not sold on Garoppolo). This is not a knock on Rodgers, but imo, the only way he cracks into say the top 5-8 QBs of all time is if he pulls a Favre and just starts shattering records, all of them, or pulling close to all of them and plays like that for 9 more years till he is 40. Or he starts making more Super Bowls and getting some rings. He might do it. Just it is going to be extremely hard to pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Also..as I mentioned earlier, late in his career, Montana took KC to the AFC championship game. System QB who was only great because of Rice and the other talent? No, not really. To me, the SB era of QB lists begins with Montana. But to each their own, I guess. How old was Montana when he took KC to the AFCCG? How old is Brady right now, winning the SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 How old was Montana when he took KC to the AFCCG? How old is Brady right now, winning the SB? I think he was 40, but that might have been the year after. Not sure. EDIT: 38 according to when he went there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So, no, I disagree that Brady has it worse with the weather or field conditions.I didn't say he played in worse field conditions than Montana I just meant that he plays outdoors in the cold more often than others. I seem to remember more patriot games played in the rain the last decade or so than just about anyone. Also, Buffalo sucks to play in and the Jets have a notoriously awful wind difficulty. Compare that to Brees(not in the current discussion obviously) or Manning or Marino and yeah, I think it makes a difference and should be noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Add - Rodgers is the best "passer" I've ever seen. What he can do with a football is amazing. But he won't end his career in the same discussion as Brady and Montana IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Rodgers will be in the discussion because he is probably the best passer of the ball we have ever seen. He will not accumulate the numbers other have because of his late start, but his interception percentage will be absurd. I also see him winning another ring as well. He just better. I only care about negative stats, which is why I really question why Elway is always mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If you want to talk in terns of postseason success... 1. Montana 2. Brady 3. Elway 4. Manning 5. Favre This is pretty much why I voted for Joe. But I can see the argument for Brady too. I mean, not only has he won 4 SBs now; but he's done it without any receiver anywhere near Jerry Rice's caliber. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I didn't say he played in worse field conditions than Montana I just meant that he plays outdoors in the cold more often than others. I seem to remember more patriot games played in the rain the last decade or so than just about anyone. Also, Buffalo sucks to play in and the Jets have a notoriously awful wind difficulty. Compare that to Brees(not in the current discussion obviously) or Manning or Marino and yeah, I think it makes a difference and should be noted. Well, I think field conditions should play a part in it. Fieldturf is easier to play on when wet than some grass fields and astroturf. Astroturf would get slick like an ice rink during rain. Here are the average temperatures for Boston from September to January: High °F Low °F High °C Low °C 72 57 September 22 14 61 47 October 16 8 52 38 November 11 3 41 28 December 5 -2 36 22 January 2 -5 Not even freezing in November and December. January, yes. Here is San Francisco: Avg High Temp Avg Low Temp Avg Rain (inches) September 70 56 0 October 69 55 1 November 64 51 3 December 57 47 4 January 57 46 5 Yes, Boston is colder, but not that much. 10 degrees or so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If you want to talk in terns of postseason success... 1. Montana 2. Brady 3. Elway 4. Manning 5. Favre I'm curious why would Montana be ahead of Brady in terms of postseason success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm curious why would Montana be ahead of Brady in terms of postseason success? Good question. Looking back, I could have easily put Brady #1. Maybe it's because Joe was 4-0 in Super Bowls? I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be upset if someone had Brady over Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Good question. Looking back, I could have easily put Brady #1. Maybe it's because Joe was 4-0 in Super Bowls? I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be upset if someone had Brady over Montana. Just curious, no biggie. Personally I consider going to 6 SBs and winning 4 to be more successful in the postseason than simply going to 4 but it's the Jordan argument that I think has some people so enamored with never losing a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 losing at the conference championship level is much more sexy than losing in the league championship level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Its hard to make a decision, and stick with it. So many good points in here, I keep mulling it over in my head. It's a team sport. It isn't tennis. To rate QBs in order is very complex, imo. Supporting personnel, scheme, threat of a great RB, etc. can have as much effect on a game as a passing skills in certain situations. I like this discussion, BTW. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Frank Reich.... 100% in the playoffs, greatest comebacks in both NCAA and NFL history (at the time)... clearly money, clearly greatest of all time /QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Kind of burgundy/gold sun glasses...but Sammy Baugh rocked during his era. Offense, Defense and Special Teams. And he was AMAZING, again a different era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Good question. Looking back, I could have easily put Brady #1. Maybe it's because Joe was 4-0 in Super Bowls? I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be upset if someone had Brady over Montana. I noticed during the Super Bowl that Brady broke one of Montana's Super Bowl records. Brady now has the record for the most number of TD passes thrown in Super Bowl history at 13. But it took him 6 games or just over 2 TDs per game. Montana had 11 TDs in 4 games. A greater TD rate, especially when you consider that Montana through those 11 in 122 pass attempts (1 TD per 11 attempts) whereas Brady threw his 13 in 247 attempts (1 TD per 19 attempts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm going to give it to Brady.. he wins. People can point to various gates,, but the fact is when the chips come down, he makes plays and wins games. He's a winner who wins. I love the fact that Tom Brady's all time ranking is largely dependent on whether the Seahwaks ran a bootleg in the last 20 seconds of the Super Bowl or a quick slant. And Adam Vinateri's accuracy. If Brady is 3-3, is he no longer #1 because he doesn't win? I wish we had a better measurement for Winnerness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Isn't Russell Wilson 11-1 against Super bowl winning QB's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Isn't Russell Wilson 11-1 against Super bowl winning QB's ? amazingly, i have hear that the rest of the Seahawks have that same record, during Wilson's time with the team. I wonder if those are correlated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 He's a winner who wins. I love the fact that Tom Brady's all time ranking is largely dependent on whether the Seahwaks ran a bootleg in the last 20 seconds of the Super Bowl or a quick slant. And Adam Vinateri's accuracy. If Brady is 3-3, is he no longer #1 because he doesn't win? I wish we had a better measurement for Winnerness. But things like that are true in everything you measure. There's plenty of people putting Montana ahead of Brady because he won all his Super Bowls. So they're punishing Brady because the Pats D let David Tyree catch a football against his helmet on fourth and long. It's not a perfect system, but we can only judge the stats as they lie, with the knowledge that over a decent number of samples the good and bad will cancel out. Trying to claim that Brady "deserves" to be 3-3 in his Super Bowl appearances because of poor opponent decisions is as valid as saying he "deserves" to be 6-0 because of freakish catches where he wasn't even on the field. You can go back to every QB's wins and reverse single plays to possibly change the outcome of their careers. Is Joe Montana better or worse a QB if Dwight Clark drops "The Catch" and the Cowboys go to SB XVI? (If would've been 4th and 3 on the 6 if that pass is incomplete) Is Joe Montana better or worse a QB if John Taylor drops his catch at the end of SB XXIII? (It would've been 3rd and 2 on the 10 if that's incomplete, but the 49ers were only down 3, so they likely would've kicked a FG and forced OT had it gotten to 4th down) on a sidenote... Is Art Monk a first-ballot Hall of Famer if his heel doesn't land out of bounds on his non-TD in SB XXVI? I honestly believe that would've been the "signature" catch all the morons claim he never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Isn't Russell Wilson 11-1 against Super bowl winning QB's ? Let's go with him as the best ever. I'm fine with that. Him or Ken O'Brien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If my memory serves correctly Ken O'Brien (UC-Davis' favorite football son) was the best QB in the history of the NFL weeks 1-10 of every season.... His teams always started 8-2-ish, with him having a near-statistically perfect season... and then he would get a little injured and limp to an eventual 9-7 ish final record every year (that is how i vaguely remember it... but my memory sucks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Isn't Russell Wilson 11-1 against Super bowl winning QB's ? Should be 12-0. I know this is a Redskins sight, but I'm a bit surprised that Staubach or Aikman hasn't been mentioned. (As I wash my mouth out with soap.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I never think of Aikman as one of the all time greats, Nor Staubach for that matter. They are both Cowboy greats and I guess deserving of being HOF players. I think their were better QBs during both of their eras though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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